ebeighe
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:56 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Jul 2017
Leaf Number: 308422
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:54 pm

berclese wrote:UPDATE: Of course, Nissan says my 66% SOH battery is doing great at one year of service. The battery information sheet is worthless as it just rates your use of charging and driving usage, presumably from the Nissan Connect data. It also shows the bars left in a graph, nothing we don't already know. No data on SOH, kWh or projected range.

The service rep said 20-25% capacity loss in the first year is average. I hope the loss is going to slow this year. This car is going to become worthless to me if the range gets much worse.

Hey that's really, um, interesting. I have a (2017) S, does the SL give you any more battery stats that the S?
(I noted above that its SOH is down to 95% after just a bit over 1 month of use, albeit in the summer)
When you said "The service rep said 20-25% capacity loss in the first year is average", i think you're saying it's not in the battery information sheet, so where do you suppose he's getting that info? or are they privvy to actual data, data that we're presumably privvy to via leafspy?
2017 S delivered 7/27/2017

berclese
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:44 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2016
Leaf Number: 310756

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:38 pm

samrovner wrote:
berclese wrote:
berclese wrote:
Battery check scheduled tomorrow at Power Nissan in Chandler. I will report the results.

I believe the car had full capacity on delivery with the GOM reporting over 100 miles range for the first 3 months.
BTW: The car has been garaged for most of this summer as I am semi-retired. 10 QCs and 284 L1/L2s in a year.


UPDATE: Of course, Nissan says my 66% SOH battery is doing great at one year of service. The battery information sheet is worthless as it just rates your use of charging and driving usage, presumably from the Nissan Connect data. It also shows the bars left in a graph, nothing we don't already know. No data on SOH, kWh or projected range.

The service rep said 20-25% capacity loss in the first year is average. I hope the loss is going to slow this year. This car is going to become worthless to me if the range gets much worse.


You and I are in the same boat, and I was hoping you were going to have better news today. I'm in Phoenix too, and this is my second LEAF. My 2013 SV didn't degrade like this at all. I agree with you about the car becoming worthless, and can't imagine what the range will be like when I finally lose my 4th bar. I read an article last night about contacting Nissan's Customer Support to start documenting this early, just to avoid headaches when it finally does qualify for replacement. I plan on calling them later today or tomorrow. Have you reached out to them yet?


I am under the suspicion that Nissan may have moved the SOH/capacity bar relationship for the 30 kWh battery. My car will likely drop it's second bar very soon. Have you taken your car in for the yearly battery check? That may help you in the long run (no pun intended). I have not contacted customer service. Please let us know how that goes.

SageBrush
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:48 pm

The Nissan annual check-up is $100 down the drain for nothing, or less than nothing if you assign a negative value to BS.
One thing I would do is run LeafSpy on the battery to exclude the possibility of a bad cell as the cause of the plummeting range.

If that is the answer then Nissan may still try to BS you that you are above the replacement threshold and you will have to educate them on the meaning of a manufacturing defect.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

berclese
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:44 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2016
Leaf Number: 310756

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:47 pm

My service rep said that if you get the battery check within 30 days of the anniversary of your delivery date, its free. I was not charged. I agree that the check is worthless, especially if you have LeafSpy. Someone on this forum implied you will have an easier time getting a replacement battery when you lose the fourth bar, if you have the yearly checks.

SageBrush
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:02 pm

berclese wrote:My service rep said that if you get the battery check within 30 days of the anniversary of your delivery date, its free..

Good to know -- that is something.

Although I vaguely remember that being the case for the first year only, now that you mention it.

I hope you grab a screen capture of LeafSpy showing the cell histogram and share it here. It will help clarify if LEAF batteries are just garbage, or if you simply have a battery with a cell or two that should not have passed quality control. My bet is the latter, and it would give you recourse now under the manufacturing defect warranty.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

berclese
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:44 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2016
Leaf Number: 310756

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:46 am

SageBrush wrote:
berclese wrote:My service rep said that if you get the battery check within 30 days of the anniversary of your delivery date, its free..

Good to know -- that is something.

Although I vaguely remember that being the case for the first year only, now that you mention it.

I hope you grab a screen capture of LeafSpy showing the cell histogram and share it here. It will help clarify if LEAF batteries are just garbage, or if you simply have a battery with a cell or two that should not have passed quality control. My bet is the latter, and it would give you recourse now under the manufacturing defect warranty.


It has a 12 mV spread with centered distribution at 4.118 V. This is a battery capacity loss issue, likely triggered by heat.

bedoig
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Oct 2013

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:12 pm

Another 2016 30 kWh owner checking in with rapid capacity loss compared to the 2013 model I had previously. I'll add all my stats later, but I'm showing around 22.5 kWh usable capacity with SOH of 79% and Hx of 76%. When the car was new I could easily go 120-130 miles and now I'm down to about 100. I've still got all 12 bars on the dash.

I hadn't paid much attention in recent months since the range is still adequate for my commute of about 65 miles. I also moved recently and don't have a L2 installed at my house yet so I've been doing strictly L1 charging and probably a weekly QC. When I first started noticing the diminished range over the last couple weeks I assumed my pack was just out of balance since I wasn't regularly getting to 100% charge. My max voltage differential at low battery is only around 12 mV though and that's only 6 at high charge.

Pretty disappointing. I haven't read the whole thread yet but I'm curious where most people are losing their first bar? I'm shocked that a 20% capacity loss hasn't triggered it. I agree with the sentiments expressed here that this looks like deliberate obfuscation by Nissan.

techchimp
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 09 May 2017

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:43 pm

I'm another 2016 30kWh owner checking in with rapid degradation.

I just lost my first bar at 15385 miles, leaf spy shows 65.889 AHr, 82% SOH and 78.18 Hx.

I live in Minnesota and we had a mild summer, yet the SOH dropped from 88 to 82 from May to August. I never see seven temp bars. I ran it all the way down to let LeafSpy do its cell balance check, all cells OK.

It is very troubling to me that Nissan is changing the value of a bar at their will. The local service manager claims all bars are equal, really? His Leaf tech, who owns a Leaf, stands behind and rolls his eyes.

Love the car. The battery, its warranty and Nissan we shall see.

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6965
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:38 pm

techchimp wrote:It is very troubling to me that Nissan is changing the value of a bar at their will.

To be fair, Nissan in the '16 Leaf warranty booklet never listed any corresponding value(s) for any # of capacity bars vs. % of capacity remaining. So, they are unfortunately free to use whatever mapping they want.

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... y_Behavior is in the '11 Leaf service manual. I do recall it being missing in the '12 and '13 service manual. Unclear why it was removed.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

User avatar
drees
Moderator
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Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:16 pm

techchimp wrote:I live in Minnesota and we had a mild summer, yet the SOH dropped from 88 to 82 from May to August.

If you lost a bar in 15k miles in Minnesota, there is something seriously wrong. What's the build date of your LEAF and how long ago did you get it?

Anyone measure the energy from the wall to recharge a 30 kWh bar loser from turtle to 100%?

It is easy to validate BMS data that way.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

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