The unofficial Leaf dropout thread

12k miles and 16 month of ownership have been great. Actually first 6 month were the best when Leaf was still a novelty. I was quite the opposite with the range anxiety which was absent initially, it developed much later as I was learning that to get the most out of it in my area I have drive it like there is an egg under the pedal, but when winter time came, so did the major disappointment. Hills, Freeway, Cold weather and driving habit all came into play with not so hot results. On top of that I started to stress out about value dropping with newer technology coming out and recent range degradation news pushed me over the board. Perhaps, I overreacted, but after putting the numbers together I realized that I can jump the ship with very minimal loss. So I traded in my Leaf for a Volt and this time I went with 2 year lease deal because I have a feeling we'll see more options and better technology by then. The car suits me better in every aspect and it has better utility overall.

Hope the Volt is what you are looking for. i agree that the LEAF lacking support is a tough option to justify. I am able to integrate it well even without public charging since i am a two commuter household. the public charging infrastructure which is still growing (new Castle Rock station opened recently plugging another hole on I-5) just takes the LEAF from a 90% usability to 97%. it wont ever be 100% but for me, it does not need to be

It's OK to have these dropout thread mentions as a word of warning to potential buyers (we have a LEAF to Volt defector over on the Chicagoland thread) but one other aspect that would be good to mention; is the LEAF your only car?

I think it's important to add this fact as we also had a bit of anxiety during the coldest temps, snowy weather and when there was a potential limitation of range we simply switched to our other car (3 driver's; 3 ICE's and one EV, although one ICE is strictly a 3-season car, no winters), I did even more homework before buying and took even the whole EV range thing with an eye to caution --- so far we've been through a mild winter, moderate spring and at times very hot summer and the worse was the few cold and snowy parts we had in winter; the fall should be fine. Sorry to see the OP go but you need to do what best for you as well as keep your piece of mind longer term ... best of luck with the Volt.

Not so much a dropout as "turning over a new LEAF".

Traded in a 2012 SL, which I bought back in late November 2011, for a three-year lease on a 2012 SV.

From numerous range tests over seven months, it appeared the SL started out with diminished capacity on the battery pack from the very beginning, and it got significantly worse as the weather warmed up (never lost a bar, but the kind of range I was getting suggested I was close). I still liked the LEAF, but I had completely lost confidence in the ability of the car to retain any significant resale value in the warm South Florida climate. I also had no confidence I'd get any support from local Nissan dealers if I reported the diminished capacity as a problem.

Although I took a small loss on the entire transaction, I plan to put the money I got back to work in investments that appreciate in value. Over three years, I'm pretty confident I can more than make up the loss. Hopefully, by the summer of 2015, Nissan will have solved the rapid capacity loss issues and I can consider buying, again. In the meantime, I can enjoy driving the LEAF without any worry over what it will be worth in three years.

Weatherman said:

Not so much a dropout as "turning over a new LEAF".

Traded in a 2012 SL, which I bought back in late November 2011, for a three-year lease on a 2012 SV.
......Over three years, I'm pretty confident I can more than make up the loss. Hopefully, by the summer of 2015, Nissan will have solved the rapid capacity loss issues and I can consider buying, again. In the meantime, I can enjoy driving the LEAF without any worry over what it will be worth in three years.

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I have done the same.

I'm in this club, too. Sold a Phoenician LEAF, leased another; already have Volt. Looking forward to seeing what's new in the EV world when my 2-year LEAF lease ends. Interested in your upgraded EVSE. Gotta give something back to NIssan at my LEAF lease end. PM-ing you now.

I hope Nissan will do something to address battery degradation. Our weather here is not that much different than in AZ with heat dome over OK, KS, AR and MS. This may stay like that for a while, which is not very encouraging for battery capacity retention. Even with relatively long commute and lack of public infrastructure I want to keep my Leaf, but if drop in range will make it difficult to use for my main commute, I will have no option but say bye.

I will wait for Leaf gen2 at this point... btw, I always had a second ICE car, but I wouldn't have dared to buy Leaf if it was my only ride.

I'm thinking this thread and the "Said goodbye to the Leaf yesterday" thread should be combined.

GRA said:

I'm thinking this thread and the "Said goodbye to the Leaf yesterday" thread should be combined.

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if so, the title of this thread feels more likely to ring Nissan's bell. Anything that helps them understand the gravity of the situation is good in my book and I think this thread acts more as a tally of those exiting the Leaf market.

I have to say, we are seriously conflicted. For those of us who must consider the resale value of the Leaf and avert loosing our shirts, we are in a very tenuous position... just as the QC network is starting to take off, it's a real pitty and there is no other pure BEV that is viable IMHO to jump to, at least not until the Tesla S production gets going for real and even then, it's an exclusive market due to the price. with the Leaf, we feel like we are supporting the spread of a technology for the masses. If we must exit soon it would have to be back to a hybrid/cereal hybrid and or playing the waiting game. frankly, it's a depressing state of affairs.

This technology being in its infancy was the main reason why I leased the Leaf - my first car lease ever. I figure at the end of my lease the '2016 Leafs should be ready, and I'll bet there will be more than a few improvements. Maybe then I will purchase it outright.

When anyone asks me about getting a Leaf, I always recommend leasing if the 12k/year mileage cap isn't a issue.

dandrewk said:

When anyone asks me about getting a Leaf, I always recommend leasing if the 12k/year mileage cap isn't a issue.

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Lots of people bought a Leaf precisely because the have a long commute and had the biggest possible savings switching to electric.. I always felt this would accelerate battery wear with extreme daily cycles.. but the AZ heat seems to be worse.

Herm said:

dandrewk said:

When anyone asks me about getting a Leaf, I always recommend leasing if the 12k/year mileage cap isn't a issue.

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Lots of people bought a Leaf precisely because the have a long commute and had the biggest possible savings switching to electric.. I always felt this would accelerate battery wear with extreme daily cycles.. but the AZ heat seems to be worse.

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I was one who bought because of the 76 miles I drive RT to work every day. Saving over $200 a month on gas is have the cost of the lease.

If anyone bought a Leaf trying to save money in a long commute, that did not do enough research.
Everyone saw Nissan's original 100 mile range and disregarded that there estimate was in optimal conditions traveling less than highway speeds.
Don't get me wrong, Nissan perpetuated this notion of range and nobody heard the limitations or just ignored them. My daughter drove to college all last year during all kinds of Pacific Northwest weather using a 100% charge and never had an issue with her +\- 60 mile drive. There were some cold drives but range was never a problem. So for me the Leaf worked out fine because I knew what it's limitations were.
Do I wish the Leaf had more flexibility? Yes. More range and less worry about the battery would have been great. But I knew what I was getting into by reading post after post here on mnl.
It would be nice if Nissan could take care of us early adopters if there are more issues to come, but I am not holding my breath.

Well Im keeping the Leaf but its no longer going to be my work-horse..It just can not take the heat of Phx...I hope to find a year old Prius in Sept..

Why not sell it, while you still can? Or are you hoping Nissan would come forward on this?

In my case the loss was few grand between trade and purchase price, but I did save on gas and I used the car for over a year. So the way I see it is that $2-$3k was a rental fee for 16 month.

downeykp said:

If anyone bought a Leaf trying to save money in a long commute, that did not do enough research.
Everyone saw Nissan's original 100 mile range and disregarded that there estimate was in optimal conditions traveling less than highway speeds.
Don't get me wrong, Nissan perpetuated this notion of range and nobody heard the limitations or just ignored them. My daughter drove to college all last year during all kinds of Pacific Northwest weather using a 100% charge and never had an issue with her +\- 60 mile drive. There were some cold drives but range was never a problem. So for me the Leaf worked out fine because I knew what it's limitations were.
Do I wish the Leaf had more flexibility? Yes. More range and less worry about the battery would have been great. But I knew what I was getting into by reading post after post here on mnl.
It would be nice if Nissan could take care of us early adopters if there are more issues to come, but I am not holding my breath.

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The section I highlighted is contradictory, and indicates that in fact there was a range problem (needing to go without heat to make the distance), just one you or your daughter was willing to put up with. Mainstream users won't be willing to do that.

The subject of range was well understood to be 100 miles of LA4 cycle, this was know way before the car was on sale.. and YMMV, the whining afterwards always irritated me. The part that was not known was what percentage of the battery was Nissan declaring usable, and that is important because it determines battery life.. most everyone assumed Nissan had the heat issue under control.

With hindsight, if Nissan had left the upper 20% of battery capacity in reserve we might not have seen so many early battery losses. Probably an extra $2500 worth of batteries.

Herm said:

The subject of range was well understood to be 100 miles of LA4 cycle, this was know way before the car was on sale.. and YMMV, the whining afterwards always irritated me.

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Agreed. If someone didn't bother to look at the EPA mileage rating (73 miles range) before purchase they can hardly blame Nissan. You can get 100 miles range if you drive like I do, but most people don't want to do that (not that I blame them).

Herm said:

The subject of range was well understood to be 100 miles of LA4 cycle, this was know way before the car was on sale

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I doubt many people have any idea what the LA4 Cycle is. The whole idea was that the Leaf had a battery pack with a usable 24 kWh. Even after the EPA numbers was released 90% of the posters on this board claimed that the 73 mile range number would understate what you'd get in the real world. As late as last year when I was warning that the high temperatures in AZ could prematurely age the battery all I got was a lot of "you're spreading FUD". Schadenfreude, the point being this forum was in serious denial about battery technology.

On the range, having Mark Perry running around proclaiming the Leaf would have "a 100 mile range, maybe more" didn't do much for setting realistic expectations.