I loss another battery capacity bar

mark13 · Jul 1, 2012

I have now loss 2 battery capacity bars in 45 days..Back in May I had 12 bars and passed the battery test at Nissan with perfect 5 stars ...I have never had a fast charge ,the car is garage kept and I avg. 6/MKW and very little AC usage..

This is not going to be good for Leaf sales,at least not in Phx. AZ..

If I had to do it over again,I would of bought another Prius,I have never had any problems with that car in PHX AZ and I put over a 100,000 in 5 years of use...

Sorry Im just a little bit angry right now thinking about a $41000 car with 16000 miles on it that may lose a 3rd capacity bar or even a 4th bar this summer..

Herm · Jul 1, 2012

at 3 bars the battery will be at 70% remaining capacity and officially worn out.. lets hope Nissan takes care of you. How long is your daily commute?

EdmondLeaf · Jul 1, 2012

mark13 said:
Sorry Im just a little bit angry right now thinking about a $41000 car with 16000 miles on it that may lose a 3rd capacity bar or even a 4th bar this summer..

Sorry for what? You have a right to be mad. I just recently look at 2002 TOYOTA RAV4EV that was for sale here 104K

104,000 miles, Original battery pack with >95% remaining capacity. 95 to 100 mile range.

Mine thinking is how in the world car that is 10 years old have better range as well as battery capacity. I am not battery expert and I do not believe I should be, but, me and those thousands and thousands that should be buying Smyrna production thinking what is going on where is the progress here?
If Li battery was not ready for prime why RAV4 type was not used?
Looks like we had such a bright future for this car. Leaf in our eyes was the car that will be changing the way all will commute. Wonder how many still believe that sale will reach 20K in USA this year. To me, like some saying, everything is great, seems strange. I still want Leaf to be next great thing and believe it can be, but doing nothing at this point and saying all is "normal" is equal to: we are completely fine with with sale of few hundreds per months, we are Ok with many Leafs that being offered as used cars with 1 or 2 battery bars already gone. Is the vision: Leaf is the future of transportation already gone, and we are OK with that?

charlestonleafer · Jul 1, 2012

Have you Tested actual range loss?

leafkabob · Jul 1, 2012

Mark, sorry to hear this. It has occurred to me that Nissan may have viewed the single bar droppers to not have a "ripe" complaint, since their statement is that owners who follow the charging advice in the manual can expect to have 80% capacity after 5 years. So folks who lost 15% still had 5% capacity to lose, and four years to lose it in. (I know, to all of us it seems incredible that it could actually work out that way, but I'm trying to find an explanation for Nissan's silence.)

Now that you have less than 80% (according to their information as to what the loss of 2 bars means) and 5 years has not elapsed, your complaint is definitely "ripe."

I have contacted Nissan thru the customer service line, but I haven't pushed too hard since I haven't lost the second bar. Once that happens (probably this month), I will pursue my complaint a bit more vigorously.

adric22 · Jul 1, 2012

I don't know if this has been discussed before. I'm curious if anyone has been able to determine if it is just a few cells in the pack that are losing capacity, or all of them. After all, if I understand the battery pack correctly, it could be compared to a chain and the weakest link in the chain determines the chain's total strength.

Yanquetino · Jul 1, 2012

adric22 said:
I don't know if this has been discussed before. I'm curious if anyone has been able to determine if it is just a few cells in the pack that are losing capacity, or all of them. After all, if I understand the battery pack correctly, it could be compared to a chain and the weakest link in the chain determines the chain's total strength.

Yes, this is what I am waiting to hear: what an actual diagnosis reveals after pulling one of these packs in a service bay. It might be that a sensor is faulty because of the high heat and giving a misleading readout on the capacity gauge. Or maybe only a couple of "cooked" cells at the front of the pack are causing the problem, easily and much more cheaply replaced under warranty. We just don't know. Nissan should crack open one of the packs that has lost two bars and find the definitive answer.

I wonder about a few specifics:

Do all 10 of the charge bars still light up when charging to 80%? Do all 12 when charging to 100%? Or does the charging stop when the charge bars match the limit of the capacity bars?
Similarly, has your range, in fact, been affected? In the past, with all 12 capacity bars lit, did a typical 80% charge give you, say, 75 miles on your usual daily commute? But now you are only getting around 60 miles?
How about a 100% charge? Could you get, say, 90 miles previously, but now can only go about 70?

DaveinOlyWA · Jul 1, 2012

adric22 said:
I don't know if this has been discussed before. I'm curious if anyone has been able to determine if it is just a few cells in the pack that are losing capacity, or all of them. After all, if I understand the battery pack correctly, it could be compared to a chain and the weakest link in the chain determines the chain's total strength.

that would be true since BMS is working with total pack voltage for one parameter and when load is applied, weaker cell voltage drop will be much higher than a good cell.

TomT · Jul 1, 2012

Yanquetino said:
Do all 10 of the charge bars still light up when charging to 80%? Do all 12 when charging to 100%? Or does the charging stop when the charge bars match the limit of the capacity bars?

No, all 12 (or 10 at 80%) bars are always used. They represent the percent of available charge.

Randy · Jul 1, 2012

Although I've read of more than one person whose first symptom is getting 9 bars on an 80% charge. At first it is once in awhile, but then it gets more frequent. A few weeks of that consistently and then they lose the 12th capacity bar...

Deleted member 770 · Jul 1, 2012

Randy said:
Although I've read of more than one person whose first symptom is getting 9 bars on an 80% charge. At first it is once in awhile, but then it gets more frequent. A few weeks of that consistently and then they lose the 12th capacity bar...

Interesting observation - I may be in that situation in a few weeks, as I've started noticing that while charging to 80% still gets me 10 bars, I lose one within a mile or two. I'll be bringing my car in for the 1-year inspection in a week or two, we'll see what that shows...

TimLee · Jul 1, 2012

Observed my first only 9 of 12 bars with 80% charging yesterday. 106F ambient conditions at hot point of the day. Probably 95F to 100F in the garage when charging.
13 months of operation. ~8000 miles. Chattanooga, TN.

LEAFfan · Jul 1, 2012

adric22 said:
I don't know if this has been discussed before. I'm curious if anyone has been able to determine if it is just a few cells in the pack that are losing capacity, or all of them. After all, if I understand the battery pack correctly, it could be compared to a chain and the weakest link in the chain determines the chain's total strength.

I don't know about a long discussion, but I posted in May about my one-year battery check. At that time, I had about an 8% loss of capacity and because I had the Battery Systems Warning Light (car with !) come on (3 separate times) while QCing, I thought maybe there were some bad cells that triggered the light, but the tech did a check and found none (had 2 or 3 bars during the test). I believe some others have had their cells checked after they lost a bar, and the techs found no bad cells. So based on this, I believe it is a battery pack degradation issue, not an individual cell issue, due to our yearly heat. Since there are some drivers close to losing a third capacity bar, I seriously doubt they will get any of those back when the weather cools.

garygid · Jul 1, 2012

I suspect that one needs to read all the cell-pair voltages at BOTH a high and a low state of charge before a low-capacity cell can be reliably found.

LEAFfan · Jul 1, 2012

garygid said:
I suspect that one needs to read all the cell-pair voltages at BOTH a high and a low state of charge before a low-capacity cell can be reliably found.

That's probably true, but I seriously doubt if doing that, that they would find any bad cells because I don't believe this problem is from bad cells, when over 25 people have lost a bar already. I still believe it is permanent degradation due to prolonged exposure to our most-of-the-year high temps. I read somewhere that degradation is the worst above 86F with these batteries.

KJD · Jul 1, 2012

TimLee said:
Observed my first only 9 of 12 bars with 80% charging yesterday. 106F ambient conditions at hot point of the day. Probably 95F to 100F in the garage when charging.
13 months of operation. ~8000 miles. Chattanooga, TN.

If the overnight low is 75 outside and your garage is still 95, maybe you could park the car outside so it can cool down better. Then set your charge timer to finish charging early in the morning before the outdoor temps start coming back up again.

Just a thought on how to make the batter last as long as possible.

mark13 · Jul 1, 2012

Im sorry to get so angry with the Leaf,I really hope everyone elses car is running great..

I never looked more forward to owning a car like the Leaf in my life..But if they had told me I was going to lose 20% battery capacity with-in the first 13 months of ownership, I would of waited a few more years to buy a E-car ...

I will visit the Nissan dealership next week and discuss the matter with them...

Something else I need to bring up is the warranty on the battery-pack,we payed a extended warranty of $3500 and I specificly ask if this would cover the battery-pack and she said yes..
Im thinking I should of recorded the discusion of the warranty information..I think I read some-where the extended warranty does not cover the batter-pack..

Im still going to buy another Prius in a month,I just can no longer look @ the Leaf as my main car,it just can not take the heat here ...

cwerdna · Jul 1, 2012

mark13 said:
Im still going to buy another Prius in a month,I just can no longer look @ the Leaf as my main car,it just can not take the heat here ...

FWIW (as a huge Prius fan), we have found some correlation between early/earlier HV battery failure and hot climates and/or hilly areas. Seilerts recently made this great post: http://priuschat.com/threads/hybrid-battery-replacement-options.111494/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd try to keep the Prius cooler as well and park in the shade, if possible. Or, park in a way that it has fewer hours of exposure to direct sunlight (e.g. sunlight ends up being blocked by buildings or trees at some point in the day). I do this.

mark13 · Jul 6, 2012

cwerdna, I owned a 2005 Prius for 5 years (GREAT-CAR) no problems..It was always parked outside tho in the hot sun , because the garage had 2 other cars in it..

Basicly the Prius did the same routine as the Leaf does but the Prius was parked outside 24 hours a day..

The Prius was given to my sister who now drives it in Prescott Az ..The car currently has a 130000 miles on it and still runs well..

Im not sure if the Leaf uses basicly the same type of battery pack, but a lot( larger)as the Prius does, but i do know that this Leaf will need a new battery pack after 3 years of use,if I were to continue the same routine with it.. ..That would put me at 50% battery capacity..

I did notice it was 96 degrees in the garage @ 11pm when I started charging July 1st,that can not be good for the battery..

I think Ill look at driving the Prius doing the summer next year and the Leaf doing the winter..

Im hoping that Nissan come through and helps out the owners in the hotter climates, who have had pre-mature battery capacity loss..I would not of bought the Leaf if I had known this was going to happen so soon..

cwerdna · Jul 6, 2012

Battery chemistry is totally different on the Prius. All Prius family members others than the PiP are using NiMH and have been the whole time.

I wouldn't be surprised if your sister needs a replacement HV battery sometime before 200K miles due to your hot climate. Besides seilerts' great post, you can also look at http://prius.wikia.com/wiki/Failed_traction_%28HV%29_battery,_what_to_do%3F" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, when the time comes...

BTW, if you haven't had the transaxle (power split device) fluid changed yet, do it NOW. I had mine changed at ~50K miles (http://priuschat.com/threads/changing-transaxle-oil.44124/page-11#post-1287277" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

. It looked pretty dark. We have it done as a precaution as Toyota doesn't specify an interval and some dealers claim it is "lifetime" fluid. :roll:

It will be very interesting to see what the capacity loss list looks like at the end of summer and the end of next summer.

I loss another battery capacity bar

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Similar threads

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!