Why not a fossil fuel heater for the Leaf or BEV's?

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Ualdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
48
OK, so we know that BEV range gets hammered during cold days, particularly in climates that experience cold winters. We know that there are heaters that consume fossil fuels, but do so in a highly efficient manner- more efficiently than an internal combustion engine.

Why not put a fossil fuel powered heater (propane? gasoline?) in BEV vehicles like the Leaf? By burning a small amount of a readily available fuel for heat, one could significantly increase a BEV's range during the winter months by allowing the battery to drive the car instead of being wasted by heating the cabin. It would suck having to burn a fossil fuel at all, but at least it would preserve the BEV's winter range and make the car more functional while also burning that fossil fuel in a highly efficient manner- certainly more efficiently than an internal combustion engine would.
 
TonyWilliams said:
The worst heaters in the world are the petrol burning Janitrol heaters in airplanes.

No thanks.

I am not talking about the heater in a 1954 Apache! I am talking about a modern, highly efficient heater that could greatly increase the cold weather range of a BEV like a Leaf in cold, winter seasons.
 
I think last winter Nissan said the Leaf would do about 50 miles slogging thru snow, heater blasting etc.

I still think an electrically heated motorcycle vest consumes a lot less power and will keep you very warm, plus it heats up instantly.

Webasto makes a line of diesel fueled auxiliary heaters, they tie into the antifreeze coolant loop of an ICE vehicle, perhaps it can be adapted to a Leaf.. popular in cold countries to heat up diesels.

http://www.webasto.com/home/en/html/homepage.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
In Norway it is quite common to install Webasto and similar heaters in electric cars for winter use.
My hope was that the Leaf with is preheating would not need this. I live in an area where temps during winter is rarely below 20F, and my commute is not very long.
 
You'd want something that safe, burns clean and is ideally easy to get anywhere. Alcohol is a great choice for this, IMHO. You can pick up a bottle of 70% Isopropyl Alcohol at any pharmacy or supermarket for dirt cheap and 99% concentrations are like $10 a liter or so. (In a pinch maybe you can stop at a liquor store and get some bottom-shelf vodka... seriously officer, it's for my car!) Butane is my #2 choice since you can pick up refill canisters of it at any hardware store.

Just gotta figure out where to install it. Something that installs like a child seat would be pretty nice if you can figure out the venting. Maybe you can fit something into the space between the rear wheels to heat water and pipe it up to the existing heating system?
=Smidge=
 
The 1997-1999 Honda EV Plus had a fossil fuel heater when deployed in colder climates. Living on the San Francisco peninsula however the one I had did not.
 
If I was in a very cold climate I would consider an aftermarket kit that replaced the electric coil with a small propane burner.
Small disposable/recyclable canister would be fine.
Might be a viable product when 2M Leafs are on the road.
 
Here is the Webasto page for their aftermarket heater:

http://www.parkingheater.com/?id=2617" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
From past thread:

Post subject: Re: Leaf HeaterPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:15 am

I didn't want to take the heat for being to post this Idea, But...

The purpose for which fossil fuels are undeniably superior to electricity is in producing heat by direct combustion. A small propane or nat gas exterior vented heater in an EV makes a lot of sense, and may be a near-necessity in very cold climates. Using heavy and expensive battery power for cabin heat is a minor problem in mild climates, but a waste of resources once you try to drive in very low ambient temperatures.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1629" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Webatso concept of connecting to the heatant loop is a good one, IMO, which I hadn't considered last Winter.

It occurs to me that their is ample room under the LEAFs hood, for this installation, as well as for a small fuel tank.

Putting the heater there would allow it to vent safely, outside the passenger compartment.

For the US, I'd say propane is the obvious fuel choice. Widely available, cheap, and none of the problems that liquid fuels have with degrading over time.

This would likely be the lowest cost “range extender” for cold climates, but not worth the trouble unless you have months of sub-freezing temps in your area.
 
I know it has been brought up before, but using a heat pump instead of resistant heat in BEVs seems to be the best route when using electricity exclusively. Anyone know what the barriers are to this being implemented?
 
zarwin said:
I know it has been brought up before, but using a heat pump instead of resistant heat in BEVs seems to be the best route when using electricity exclusively. Anyone know what the barriers are to this being implemented?
Not sufficient in very low temperatures.

You need ambient heat, to pump into the cabin.

Would be nice to have in, less extreme climates.

Nissan obviously went with a “one size (sort of) fits all” approach with the LEAF heating system.

Given the much greater engineering issues they were dealing with in introducing their first BEV, I can’t fault them too much.
 
http://www.google.com/search?&q=golfcat+propane+coleman" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Too hot? Too dangerous?

• Conveniently fits inside most cup holders
• Battery InstaStart® ignition for quick and easy matchless lighting
• 3,000 BTU output operates up to 7 hours from one 16.4 oz. propane cylinder (not included)
• Battery ignition for push button lighting
• This item cannot be shipped to Massachusetts

5036-850_500.jpg
 
scottf200 said:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=golfcat+propane+coleman

... Too dangerous?

Yes, IMO.

Unvented combustion.

Surprised they seem to advertise it for indoor uses.

On the other hand, Much more hazardous gasoline heaters were once commonly sold for ICEV cars.

I once owned a '48 Studebaker coupe (no coolant heater) that had one installed under the dash, right in front of the passenger seat.

Never used it, as it never got cold enough in the SF Bay Area to make it worth the risk...
 
scottf200 said:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=golfcat+propane+coleman

Too hot? Too dangerous?

• Conveniently fits inside most cup holders
• Battery InstaStart® ignition for quick and easy matchless lighting
• 3,000 BTU output operates up to 7 hours from one 16.4 oz. propane cylinder (not included)
• Battery ignition for push button lighting
• This item cannot be shipped to Massachusetts

5036-850_500.jpg

That's cool!
This, plus something like this http://www.instructables.com/id/Portable-12V-Air-Conditioner---Cheap-and-easy!/
Should replace Leaf's AC completely, giving you the full range at any weather!
 
edatoakrun said:
Unvented combustion.
Mmm. It's intended for golf carts which are generally open. Even if it says it's got a stand for putting it on tables and floors, that doesn't mean it's safe for indoor use.

A car cabin is a relatively small space with little air leakage, so unless you plan to run the ventilation system to bring in fresh air that's a really dumb thing to use. I'd put a few golf cart batteries in the back and rig an electric heater before I go that route.
=Smidge=
 
Re: Unvented combustion.

Frankly I'm surprised noone has accused me of having ulterior motives of trying to kill all you LEAF drivers :shock: :lol:

Caveat ... if anyone tries this please please please drive with your rear windows cracked and fan only setting on low. I think the thing would put out a lot of heat (too much) so cracked windows would probably be required. Perhaps you'd only run it for a couple minutes anyway to warm the car up to 80 then let it gradually cool off.
 
Back
Top