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It really depends on whether I am able to extend the useful life of my LEAF for a reasonable amount of money. It's deeply disappointing that Nissan has priced a replacement pack at over $8k. I suspect it was a cynical move that doesn't reflect the true cost of a pack and that Nissan's intention is to get people to purchase a new LEAF instead. I believe that's the case, which is why I won't buy another Nissan EV. They continue to design and manufacture battery packs with short term (less than 10 year) planned obsolescence as a desirable "feature". Not impressed...

So, unless Nissan starts offering remanufactured/reconditioned packs in North American then I will definitely regret purchasing a LEAF the day I have to have it towed to the scrap yard. Part of my intention with buying a LEAF was that I thought I was making a relatively better choice for the environment - I'm no longer convinced that's true, if the battery pack isn't repurposed or remanufactured to extend its useful life.

Having said all that, I'm still hoping that an affordable after market replacement pack will emerge, hopefully with at least 30 kWh of usable energy, so that I can keep my LEAF until 2025 and hand over my current pack for reconditioning too. I'd be pretty happy with that outcome.
 
I leased my 2012 Leaf in January 2013, just before the 2013 models came out. I don't think I would have done anything different, nor would I have waited. The price was right, and at that time I needed something more reliable than the 2006 Audi (with over 100k miles) that was my daily driver at the time. Leaf became the daily car, Audi became the long distance car and because it wasn't subjected to the daily grind became far less problematic.

Kept all 12 bars until just before the lease ended. It was extremely reliable.
 
So, unless Nissan starts offering remanufactured/reconditioned packs in North American then I will definitely regret purchasing a LEAF the day I have to have it towed to the scrap yard.

You should also have the option of selling the car for $2k to someone who can then afford to have a new pack installed. FWIW.
 
I didn't own, did lease a LEAF. Yes, I would have leased a LEAF and would do it again. Loved the smooth & quite ride and was impressed with the generally good construction quality. However, not sure I would have wanted to own it due to the sketchy resale. It was also an educational experience and good exposure to an alternative fuel vehicle for discovering what works and what doesn't work. The main lesson was that battery capacity needs to match your personal duty cycle and charging availability. In the end, the lease car was returned because the range slipped too much for my needs (was ~88%), it wasn't worth buying for the residual value, and was time for a truck (purchased '17 Honda Ridgeline). For a daily commuter went back to using a '13 CRV. If my '14 LEAF had been a 40KWh pack (like the '18's) would likely have bought out the lease because there will likely be enough excess capacity to degrade and still be usable for my needs to 150K miles. So next time will be a more educated consumer.

Nissan is going to experience an expensive lesson soon by not supporting the battery technology in their aging cars. Using a lease arrangement is essentially paying for the depreciation as determined by the resale market. Eventually their leasing rates will become noncompetitive if resale is non-existent. That lesson will come from developing a reputation for building a $35K, 5-6 year disposable car because it can't be economically restored to original performance when the battery is spent.
 
I bought my 2011 for $5500 with 8 bars. I expected to get 2 years out of the car, then spend another $5500 for a battery and have a full range Leaf for ~$11k.

Nissan raised the battery price the next month, which really messed up that plan.

Love my Leaf, hate the range. Not happy that Nissan increased the advertised price for battery replacement and won't sell a higher capacity battery now that tech has improved.

If I had to do it again, I'd buy a Leaf with a good condition battery and heated seats. Having a toast battery really sucks... There's basically no Regen braking now at 7 bars and range is 30-35mi from 100% to turtle, which means local driving only. Losing the Regen braking has had a HUGE impact on effective range and wears out the brake pads. Also, all the DIYers are in CA so I can't even pay someone to swap the battery cells here.

I can eek out a bit more range if I don't turn climate control on, drive slow, and time the traffic lights, but everyone else is passing me and it's not safe. I avoid doing that. The car will work for another year or two and then I'll have to make a decision.
 
I was driving a 13 year old Dodge back in 2011. I was so excited that there were now real electric cars available with warranties, and I had decided that I must get one. I was deciding between a Nissan Leaf SL ($35k) and a Tesla Model S 40 ($57k). Neither one was actually in production yet, so I couldn't test drive anything. I ended up choosing Nissan.

  • This would be Tesla's first car (the Roadster started off as a Lotus) . I didn't know if I could trust them to make something new. Nissan was a well known manufacturer.
  • The closest Tesla service center was 250 miles away in Washington D.C. The closest Nissan dealer was 4 miles away. Tesla Rangers didn't exist yet.
  • Who knew if Tesla would still be in business to perform warranty work on a car. They almost went bankrupt in late 2012.
  • Nissan had a simpler battery back design, forgoing active thermal management. Back then, I thought that the simpler approach was the better approach.
  • The Tesla would cost ~$20k more than the Nissan.

With hindsight, I should have gotten the Tesla.

  • Tesla made sure to proactively repair & replace parts that were redesigned on those initial vehicles. This went well beyond safety recalls.
  • I now have a Tesla service center 8 miles from my house.
  • That Tesla Model S 40 has a range of 140 miles and used a software-limited 60kWh pack. Those things have no risk of battery degradation.
  • Nissan's lack of battery thermal management turned out to be a poor decision. My Leaf is now down to about 30 miles of range in cold weather. It's barely usable as an errand-runner at this point.
  • My Leaf is now worth about $5k (kbb, third-party sale). A 2012 Model S 40 is worth $22k. Almost 80% of the initial price difference is still there as used car value.

Oh well. The Leaf was a fun little introduction to electric cars.
 
Thanks so much for the comments as I continue to research. I welcome any and all comments.

From what I gather so far.. the Leaf is a fun, reliable EV car if you have a home charging setup that will handle most normal driving needs. However, the long term outlook for the vehicle (battery) is not good.

So if I decide to purchase one, I will need to be prepared for negative issues after 5-7 years or so, and little to no resale value.

Agree??
 
coach81 said:
Thanks so much for the comments as I continue to research. I welcome any and all comments.

From what I gather so far.. the Leaf is a fun, reliable EV car if you have a home charging setup that will handle most normal driving needs. However, the long term outlook for the vehicle (battery) is not good.

So if I decide to purchase one, I will need to be prepared for negative issues after 5-7 years or so, and little to no resale value.

Agree??
Yes, spot on.

If at all uneasy about the choice, lease it. If they give a lease price & terms outside of what a well built midsize such as Camry, Accord, Altima, etc... is bringing, then take that as your signal to walk away. I look at the value of a LEAF in 1/3d’s over the life of a 3-year lease... 1/3 government subsidy, 1/3 depreciation, 1/3 residual value. That lease becomes an important hedge on Nissan’s behavior over the next 3 years. Consider it a 3-year test drive before buying.
 
You naysayers cannot say that you regret getting one if you leased.... You basically rented it, Others who say the car will be towed to the junkyard or the resale value is nothing are also wrong. All of you are probably the first ones to sell your stocks if it takes a dip...

There are enough Leafs out there that can supply parts and batteries for current owners for a while. We are a select few that possess what I feel will be a classic collectible in 20 years+. Go ahead and tow your unwanted Leaf to my house..... I will give you $50 for it when you are ready...
 
I would absolutely do it all over again...but I am an owner (almost) 8 years down the road with (nearly) zero maintenance (and zero emission) transportation. I used to think I'd keep my Leaf forever, but without a clear/cost effective upgrade path for the battery pack, that may no longer be realistic.
 
coach81 said:
Thanks so much for the comments as I continue to research. I welcome any and all comments.

From what I gather so far.. the Leaf is a fun, reliable EV car if you have a home charging setup that will handle most normal driving needs. However, the long term outlook for the vehicle (battery) is not good.

Yes, only buy it if you have a home charger and a spot to charge it in. Don't buy it if you live in apartments, even if your current apartment has chargers, because you may be unable to move.

Not only super fun to drive, easier to drive. It doesn't shift and is quicker. That makes it easier to pass or merge because the car is so responsive and means that you aren't distracted by any transmission shifting. Finally, it's SUPER quiet which I just can't explain how wonderful that is until you drive an EV. Never having to stop to get gas is also amazing, especially in the winter--just plug in when you get home.

coach81 said:
So if I decide to purchase one, I will need to be prepared for negative issues after 5-7 years or so, and little to no resale value.
Agree??

The later generation batteries are better than the regrets you're getting from the early adopters (2011/2012). Major improvements were made in the second half of 2013 and again in 2015. Finally, if you purchased a new Leaf now, you'd have 2x the range, which means that a degraded battery will "only" go 60-70 miles, not 30-35. That's the same as a new 2015, and I'd be super happy with that!

Therefore, I would revise your statement as follows:
So if I decide to purchase one, I will need to be prepared for significant battery degradation after 10 years or so (less years if a super hot climate like AZ), and a car with a significantly reduced range and resale value, because the range will only be 60-70 miles when newer electric cars have a range of 300 miles. However, the car will have significant value because many people would love to have an inexpensive, reliable daily driver with a decent range.


Also, parts for Leafs are hyper expensive. I don't know if this is true of all foreign vehicles, but parts for my Town and Country were 5-10x less expensive. For instance:
1) The occupancy sensor failed and Nissan wants to replace the entire seat (they don't sell just the sensor). Cost? $3k.
2) Coolant pump failure is $1,071 at the dealer. Someone found the same pump for a different Nissan model (which is fully compatible) for $126.
See: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=24152

That said, the OVERALL cost for the Leaf maintenance is MUCH lower than an ICE because the # of parts and failure rates are so much lower. But IF you run into an issue, it's much more likely to cost big $$$ (or buy from Junkyard parts).
 
I've been really happy with my LEAF. It's been a good car, and has hit the mark for what my expectations were when it came to lifestyle change it would enable - one much less dependent on fossil fuels and somewhat kinder to the environment.

However, if I hadn't been eligible for a warranty battery, I probably would have been less so today. Getting the new pack 3 years ago was a real boost to my overall satisfaction.

The one remaining concern I have is for a high-dollar repair that I either won't be able to pull off myself or won't be able to do with used parts. But, touch-wood, nothing like that happens for a good long while.

And, with hindsight, waiting a few more years for vehicles capable of far greater range might be the way I'd go, if I had it all to do again.
 
Yes I would probably purchase again at the same price ($25k OTD or $23,400 sales price + TTL). That said, knowing what I know now I may have gone for the 2016 Volt instead if I got a good deal on one.

My 2015 S is a great car... cheap to operate, smooth, quiet, and reliable (tires are the only thing I've replaced on the car) but after 3 years I am down to 83% battery SOH and am already running into range issues on my winter commute (52 miles round trip). I am considering upgrading in the next year or so unless the Fenix battery company pans out.

The Leaf e-plus will definitely be on my radar as it should address all of my complaints with my Gen1 like range, power, and the styling of the front end. It'll just depend on price, specs, and how good the competition is.
 
I would (and did) lease again, but would never purchase a Leaf. I loved my 2013 but if I'd bought it I'd be hating it by now, because of the limited and declining range.
 
The only reason I didn't purchase mine was because the residual was far too high given actual market value, even after NMAC's considerable residual reduction offer. Even at 4 bars down (which it might have been by now) it still would serve 80+% of my driving needs.

I did purchase my eGolf because the residual value was actually less than what an equivalent one was going for at dealerships.
 
LEAF satisfied my needs and expectations. Leased one, then another and finally bought out the lease. I like the car.

The bar has definitely been raised since Gen1 LEAF. I'm sure the next EV I get will be far more capable, whatever brand it turns out to be. At this point EVs are like personal computers were 20 years ago. Whatever you buy today will be obsolete within a few years but doesn't make it a bad purchase today.
 
I think you have to consider how much EV incentives factored into the lease/purchase decision. As much as I love my Leaf, I don’t think I would have bought my 2013 without incentives; and getting $20,500 in incentives to purchase my 2017 was absolutely the reason I bought again.

So for me the net cost is very low compared to any other alternative, so low that if I were to junk my 2017 eight years from now I would not complain, although getting a new battery under warranty at that time would be the best outcome I could ask for.

For me the Leaf is the perfect “town” car, so my needs are modest compared to those who need round trips of 80-100 miles at higway speeds.
 
The Tesla 40 currently does not exist. It was a loss leader only available for a short time. Same with the 35K model 3. Tesla makes fine expensive cars. The financial anapests of the company are quite worrisome. Despite what Elon says I do not trust the company. I am in no hurry to drink his koolaid!
 
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