Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

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golfcart

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
458
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
I am just going through this exercise in my head now and was curious what other leaf owners think or have done.

I have a 2015 Leaf S with 43,000 miles on it. My latest leafspy stats show 83% SOH and 52AHr on the battery. I just dropped my first bar last week. I have a 52 mile round trip commute and a child with activities a few days a week. Right now I can manage pretty well but it is getting tight on some cold days to get the kid after work and get them where they need to go without having the charge first (which is not always an option).

I don't think there is any chance of me getting my battery replaced for free based on my rate of degradation current my commute which will likely cause me to hit 60,000 miles sometime in late 2019 or early 2020.

I originally paid $23,400 for the car with the QC Package and Winter Package. That came out to $15,900 after the tax rebate. We financed at 0% so this car didn't really cost me that much.

Here is my dilemma... Do I unload the car now while I can get about $10k for it or just drive it until it can no longer make my commute in the winter and sell it/trade it in then (which will likely be the 2019/2020 winter).

If I got $10k for the car early in 2019 (which I think I could) I would have spent $5900 net for 3 1/2 years of maintenance free driving. That is pretty great in my opinion. I could use that money to put towards a 2018 SV with winter package and tech package that has been sitting on the dealer lot for the last year (assuming it's still there). Then, given the 40kWh battery pack and 8 year warranty, never have to worry about range again. Even if the battery dropped to 60% in 8 years I'd still be able to get to work and back no problem. Plus I'd get the pro-pilot, hybrid heater, android auto, e-pedal, etc...

If I hold on to the current car, I risk the vehicle becoming a real hassle for me sometime next winter and having questionable resale value at that point. I mean, who wants a car that only goes 55 miles in the winter (probably 45 if you turn the heater on)?. I suppose at that point I could trade it in on a 2019 or used 2018 but I am unsure how much resale I will lose between now and then. Given the number of other EV and PHEV options coming out it just makes me feel like the GEN1 leaf is gonna look like a dinosaur soon and nobody will want it.

I guess my final option is just drive it into the ground and QC it on my lunch break every day once the range gets to low. That is probably the cheapest since the dealership is right by my office and I can charge for free since I bought it there. That just sounds like it'll get old real quick.

Any thoughts? Anyone sold a 2015 recently or upgraded from a GEN1 leaf to a GEN2 leaf? If so, do u think it was a good choice? What would y'all do in my situation? There are no bad opinions, I am just mulling over my choices and would appreciate any input.
 
Greetings from Washington State. I am in a similar situation with my 2013 SV Premium. I lost the first bar a month ago at 40K miles.

I think it is better to deal with problems earlier than later. So, I do not plan to wait much longer to upgrade.

I am disappointed in the slow development of the LEAF's battery.
IE
2011 24KWH
2014 24KWH Lizard
2016 30KWH
2019 40KWH
All air cooled.

I don't plan to wait to see what incremental improvement from Nissan comes next. I'm not hopeful for a third part solution that is economic.

I test drove the 2019 Chevy Bolt Premium three days ago. I am impressed. The full EV tax credit ($7.5K) is scheduled to expire for Chevy on March 31, 2019. I see on Autotrader that many dealers are offering $5K discounts.

I figure I can realistically get $7K or $8K for my LEAF. This means I can get a Chevy Bolt Premium for just over $20K. Given it's active liquid cooling of the battery, I'd expect it to last 10 years. This is my plan.

Sorry for starting most of my sentences with "I". This post is just one man's opinion.
 
I did a Gen 1 to Gen 1 upgrade!

Somewhat similar in that I sold my 2013 S privately and leveraged that with substantial discounts into a new 2017 S with 30 kwhr battery. A possible option is a used 2017 for less than $20,000 with an 8 year degradation warranty - your net would be less than $10,000 and you would have better range than what you have now.
 
Another option to buy some time is to assume/takeover the lease of a 2018 LEAF of someone who has buyer's remorse.

I just missed out on such an opportunity. The leasee wanted out so badly that she was putting in $5k as an incentive. By selling my 2013 SV and putting the proceeds towards lease payments on the 2018, along with her $5k, I would have ended up with a net monthly payment of $70 a month for 43 months.

Also, the residual payout was $13k (Canadian), which would be below market value. With an 8 year pack warranty, I would have jumped all over that.

Unfortunately, someone else beat me to it.

Living in WA, you might be lucky enough to buy a Hyundai Kona Electric or Kia Niro EV in the near future. I would definitely choose either of those over a Bolt.
 
rcedwards said:
I figure I can realistically get $7K or $8K for my LEAF. This means I can get a Chevy Bolt Premium for just over $20K. Given it's active liquid cooling of the battery, I'd expect it to last 10 years. This is my plan.

Thanks for the thoughts. The bolt is definitely not a bad option if you are getting another EV. I rode in a Bolt when I took a Lyft recently and that thing was definitely quick, plus it has great range and battery cooling like you said. I didn't realize they sold enough of those to max out the tax credit already, or is it because the Volt has been counting against them?

For me that's just a lot of extra money over the Leaf for range I really don't need. The leaf at the local dealership is the SV with the cold weather and technology package. They are asking $33k but I am absolutely positive I can get them under $30k if they still have it in January. My wife has a PHEV so if we go out of the immediate area we take that car. I just need one that can reliably do 60 miles on a cold winter day for the next 10 years.
 
joeriv said:
I did a Gen 1 to Gen 1 upgrade!

Somewhat similar in that I sold my 2013 S privately and leveraged that with substantial discounts into a new 2017 S with 30 kwhr battery. A possible option is a used 2017 for less than $20,000 with an 8 year degradation warranty - your net would be less than $10,000 and you would have better range than what you have now.

That is a good point, although I haven't seen any 30kWh leafs come up around here for sale. I wonder if that is any better than driving mine until its useless and then replacing the battery though... it is the same car with the same features and a new pack roughly the same as the cost difference between the cars.
 
alozzy said:
Another option to buy some time is to assume/takeover the lease of a 2018 LEAF of someone who has buyer's remorse.

That would be a deal if it came up. The EV's really aren't that popular in my part of Virginia so there aren't a lot of chances like that. Most of the ones I see just sit on the lot for a year then they do deep discounts. That's how I got my 2015 so cheap.

I guess I could see if I could work out a lease deal with one of the local dealerships on their 2018 stock now that the 2019s are coming in.
 
Can you wait until the 1st qtr of 2019, I read that the longer range Leaf will be delivered then. But that is what I read, no assurance that will happen.

Also, could you lease the car? Does that make sense? I lease my 2018 SL and I like a new car every 3 years. But I have to think that the resale of this car, if I bought it, is diminished because if a 225 mile range car is available, then who wants the 150 mile range vehicle? And given in 3 years, the battery might be not as good as today.
 
A 2015 Leaf that hasn't yet dropped the first bar is worth more than one with 11 bars. I suggest the OP sell it now and get a 2018. Just be honest about the battery stats with any buyers and call it "11+ bars."
 
golfcart said:
joeriv said:
I did a Gen 1 to Gen 1 upgrade!

Somewhat similar in that I sold my 2013 S privately and leveraged that with substantial discounts into a new 2017 S with 30 kwhr battery. A possible option is a used 2017 for less than $20,000 with an 8 year degradation warranty - your net would be less than $10,000 and you would have better range than what you have now.

That is a good point, although I haven't seen any 30kWh leafs come up around here for sale. I wonder if that is any better than driving mine until its useless and then replacing the battery though... it is the same car with the same features and a new pack roughly the same as the cost difference between the cars.

There is a 2016 S that just came up for sale after I bought my 2015 - it's going for $10,500 and I see these all the time out here. I guess it does really depend on the area.
 
Baltneu said:
Can you wait until the 1st qtr of 2019, I read that the longer range Leaf will be delivered then. But that is what I read, no assurance that will happen.

That's what I'm planning to do (if i choose to sell). Best case scenario is the 60kWh 2019 comes out with a price tag under $40k and there are 40kWh 2018's still on the lot. This car is a commuter for me so 150 miles is just as good as 225 it just meansi charge every 2 days instead of every 3.
 
jlv said:
rcedwards said:
The full EV tax credit ($7.5K) is scheduled to expire for Chevy on March 31, 2019.
That's not correct. GM had not hit 200K sales at the end of Q3; it looks like they will this quarter (2018 Q4). If they do, then the full credit will be available for two more quarters, or until June 30 2019 (end of Q2).

Where do u get the most recent manufacturer total sales numbers from? I did a search and only found some older articles on green car reports.
 
Here is a crazy deal.... If you have the 2015 Leaf paid off now, and have already gotten your money's worth, then SELL IT NOW. If you keep the car another 1-2 years, then you risk to lose $5K of resale value over that time. So your car is like a human at age 60. At that age, Don't go making long term plans for medical school, because by the time you graduate medical school, you will be too old to have a new career.

Keep the $10k, and .... HAHA... Buy a cheap older ICE (honda civic) for the 1-2 years... Until the good, new EV you want comes out. At that point, then sell the honda civic for the same price you paid for it, and use the $10K you got for your Leaf as a down payment.. JUST ANOTHER PLAN....
 
LeftieBiker said:
A 2015 Leaf that hasn't yet dropped the first bar is worth more than one with 11 bars. I suggest the OP sell it now and get a 2018. Just be honest about the battery stats with any buyers and call it "11+ bars."

It just dropped last week that's what got me thinking about this. So I'll advertise it as an 11 bar car. I was still getting 75-80 miles of range this summer going 60 on the interstate. Thanks for the suggestion I am leaning towards that option if a good deal comes along.
 
powersurge said:
Here is a crazy deal.... If you have the 2015 Leaf paid off now, and have already gotten your money's worth, then SELL IT NOW. If you keep the car another 1-2 years, then you risk to lose $5K of resale value over that time. So your car is like a human at age 60. At that age, Don't go making long term plans for medical school, because by the time you graduate medical school, you will be too old to have a new career.

Keep the $10k, and .... HAHA... Buy a cheap older ICE (honda civic) for the 1-2 years... Until the good, new EV you want comes out. At that point, then sell the honda civic for the same price you paid for it, and use the $10K you got for your Leaf as a down payment.. JUST ANOTHER PLAN....

Lol that's not a bad plan but i don't think I can go back to ICE at this point. I've got the solar panels and the 240 plug already. Plus I love how smooth and quiet it is.

My ideal EV is the one with the smallest battery that meets my needs and costs me the least amount on $$. So i think a 40kWh would fit the bill. I just want to geta good deal.
 
golfcart said:
Where do u get the most recent manufacturer total sales numbers from? I did a search and only found some older articles on green car reports.
I searched. Found several:
https://insideevs.com/top-6-automakers-200000-federal-tax-credit-limit/ (updated Sept 2018)
http://evadoption.com/ev-sales/federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out-tracker-by-automaker/
 
The Kona Electric, Niro EV, and Soul EV apparently are all built on the same platform and will likely have the same battery pack options. So, if one of those appeals to you and it's available in your market, then definitely consider them.
 
jlv said:
golfcart said:
Where do u get the most recent manufacturer total sales numbers from? I did a search and only found some older articles on green car reports.
I searched. Found several:
https://insideevs.com/top-6-automakers-200000-federal-tax-credit-limit/ (updated Sept 2018)
http://evadoption.com/ev-sales/federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out-tracker-by-automaker/

Thanks. I must have used the wrong key words. I didn't realize GM was so close and that Tesla was already over the limit (according to their estimates).
 
What I meant was the 2018 value would drop considerably once the 2019 came out with the longer range battery.
so if you wait until 2019, and buy a 2018, its value drops big time due to the longer range battery on the new car, whenever that comes out.
I understand your commute is well within the limits of the 150 mile range, but the 225 range is just more pleasing, I think to most.
Good luck what ever you decide.
 
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