One Year in a Used 2015 Leaf - update : lost bar @ 36600 mi,.

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pipestem

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
60
Location
North Carolina
Update: Changed thread title. Jump to last page for the update.

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Original Post. Six Months in a Used Leaf - 2015

Hi everyone. Yesterday, marked my six month anniversary for Little Zippy, a red 2015 Leaf S. I bought it with 24007 mi on the odometer from Carvana, so it was a leap of faith for the car and the dealer. Some observations...

- This is a great car. We have no real complaints. So glad I made the jump.

- A used Leaf is a great deal. Prices are still low and the car ages well. There are really almost no signs of use. I drive it normally, have not been near a dealer, and only washed it once. It tracks perfectly straight. All controls still feel like new. The seats and paint show no sign of use. No rattles. This is a well made little car. I have not spent another dime on it other than weekend plugins at my house. I feel like a Leaf is not the sort of vehicle most people would abuse, so go used.

- S model is fine. I don't need that carwings stuff. Electric everything (no pun), bluetooth, siri, heated seats front, back, and steering wheel. The radio and climate controls on the dash and steering wheel work great. It's nearly perfect. The only bummer is that music does not stream from the iphone to the car, I have to use the cable and half the time it does not show the correct song on the display -wow, first world problem.

- Slow charging for local driving is fine. I am driving about 900 per month, same as before in my ICE car. I have only used 4 QC in 6 months. 90% of my charging is L2 at work, the other 10% is at home on the 110. This has been no problem. I have only once turned down a local trip due to low charge.

- It really eats charge at interstate speeds. dang. But, around town, shopping, friends, restaurants, it hardly loses any charge. This this is great. I wish I worked in town. I really hope future EVs have better highway performance.

- We need more QC locations. I have many available locally, where I don't need them, but virtually none on the main roads for regional trips. If Tesla can do this, why cannot Nissan ? In fact, why can't we standardize Chademo or CCS ? Why don't my state highway rest stops have QC ? Seriously?

- Winter range drops about 10-20%. Half of December and all of January were often below freezing, and even the last week was below freezing every night. I only ran the heat about half the time, but have used the seats and wheel heating every all the time. This range drop has had no limiting effect on my driving. No big deal.

- Love the power, but wish it had more power beyond 30mph. 2018, I know. I just have to wait a few years for reasonable used ones.

- The manual seat controls suck. I really wish it had a power drivers seat] like nearly every other car over $20K.

- Hub caps ? Seriously, this is the only car over $20K with plastic hubcaps. I got lucky (?) that mine at least has Altima hubcaps which are better looking, to me.

- I did look at a 2018, and was not that much impressed. The range jump is great but not quite enough to be a regional trip car in this area, much less national. In that case, it does not have any more true utility than my 80 mile range Little Zippy. I wish they had actually made a 100% new car and had not taken the heated seats and wheel out of the S, and added real wheels. I am noping that in a few years there will be lots of good used EV on the market.

- All together, it needs just a few more features and a better QC network, a little more range, and it would be perfect.

Leaf spy report. The weird thing is that it degraded by the end of December, but has shown no additional degradation since them, despite the older weather. I am living in fear of losing that first bar, I know it won't last forever.

Code:
ODO		Date		Ahr		SOH	Voltage		Hx	QC	L1/L2	SOC	  KWH		Ah	Temp avg	GID %	GID
24358	11/3/2017	55.89	90.00	395.40	84.64	363	 377	93.9	19.50	52.50	67.2	89.7	252
29545	3/24/2018	53.46	86.08	395.37	76.33	367	 556	96.9	19.50	51.82	43.8	89.3	251

We got lucky and received a nice fresh snowfall for the drive home from a dinner party last night. The red car looks great with a fresh coat of snow.
 
The BMS will probably wait until Spring to drop the 12th bar. Although your weather barely qualifies as "Winter" to many of us, so it may happen the next warm spell you get.
 
It really eats charge at interstate speeds. dang. But, around town, shopping, friends, restaurants, it hardly loses any charge. This this is great. I wish I worked in town. I really hope future EVs have better highway performance

Other than a bigger battery, it's too bad that Nissan didn't make the LEAF more aerodynamic as that would have improved highway driving range significantly. The Hyundai IONIQ has a much lower wind coefficient and also has a TMS, two huge advantages. I'll probably consider an IONIQ as a used buy in a few years, if the LEAF's battery degradation starts to frustrate me RE limited range. I suspect that the IONIQ will depreciate less rapidly than the LEAFs have though.

Having said all that, it sounds like most of your commute is at highway speeds. You'll find that dropping your speed even 5 mph will make a big difference. Also, make sure your tires are at least 40 psi and maybe even consider a few low cost aero mods (i.e. grill block, 16" pizza trays, that can be bought on Amazon for <$20, as wheel covers, etc).

Finally, make sure you buy LRR tires (i.e. Ecopia 422 plus) - they definitely make a difference.
 
alozzy said:
....

Having said all that, it sounds like most of your commute is at highway speeds. You'll find that dropping your speed even 5 mph will make a big difference. Also, make sure your tires are at least 40 psi and maybe even consider a few low cost aero mods (i.e. grill block, 16" pizza trays, that can be bought on Amazon for <$20, as wheel covers, etc).

Finally, make sure you buy LRR tires (i.e. Ecopia 422 plus) - they definitely make a difference.

Thanks. I try not to obsess on it.

Yeah the commute has 16 mi of highway where traffic ranges from 80 to 10 , so I get a full chance to try out every possible speed and condition. Tires are always full. You can really see the drop every +5 mi. I go back and forth between efficiency and speed using from 19% to 25% of charge. That's a moving metric though as temperature, A/C and heating, charge efficiency, traffic, and degradation come into play.

I saw one video test of full wheel covers that was interesting. The only caveat appears to be possible heat build up in warm temps, but regen braking should help mitigate that. It all adds up. Say you lose very roughly 10% for temperature, 5% for a modest amount of heat, 10% for 'excessive' speed, 10% for battery degradation, ... 30% off of absolute is pretty significant.

That reminds me, my biggest gripe is that the dash gives me GOM, remaining battery %, and a rough indicator of total battery capacity, but no absolute measure of KWh remaining. Spy is telling me that a full tank is max 20KWh so I know it, but I wish the dash would show it.

I guess the other gripe is there is not much to do to the car, I need a project to keep me busy.
 
LOL, if you are wanting a project this might interest you ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSqGBPBxfUE

Too ambitious for me, I'm way too dumb to pull that off.
 
alozzy said:
LOL, if you are wanting a project this might interest you ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSqGBPBxfUE

Too ambitious for me, I'm way too dumb to pull that off.

Or perhaps too smart to start. I have been looking at plans for something like an electric MGB. You have to think of it as a very long project that wastes lots of money and might be completed. Realistically, right now I have no time or temperament for it.

Reports on the 30 KWh battery life have not been encouraging, so I don't expect to be looking for a used one of those. In my area, the only BEV actually available are the Leaf, Bolt, I3, Focus, and Teslas. So three years or so from now it would be one of those. A few years from then and there should be several more used BEV candidates. However, one of those Leaf refurb packs for 2800 sounds pretty good., I could do that and give this car to one of the kids.

My first impression is still great used car - thanks everyone for leasing !
 
10 month report. This car is still perfect. Still on 12 bars. However le'Wife had been driving it the last month and I miss it.
Code:
Date	      ODO	 Ahr	  SOH	 Voltage	 Hx	  QC	L1/L2	Temp avg
11/3/2017	24358	55.89	90.00	395.40	84.64	363	377	67.2
3/24/2018	29545	53.46	86.08	395.37	76.33	367	556	43.8
5/11/2018	30742	53.70	86.47	386.45	77.24	367	595	75
7/01/2018	32343	54.65	88.00	395.87	80.15	368	648	80.4
7/21/2018	32633	54.23	87.23	395.50	79.19	368	661	79.7
 
Perhaps. The main point of the post is to tell people that you don't have to drop 30k on a new one just get a good EV.

You know, even if the bar drops that only means we lost 1% more, not that the battery suddenly lost 15%, It's currently fine on range. When le'Wife drives the car around town, like this week, the 100% GOM still goes well over 90, which is pretty cool no matter how flawed.
 
ONE YEAR UPDATE
Le Leaf is still rocking 12 bars. Note to everyone looking - Leaf is a great used car.

Code:
Date         ODO     Ahr    SOH   Voltage    Hx      QC   L1/L2
11/3/2017	24358	55.89	90.00	395.40	84.64	363	377
3/24/2018	29545	53.46	86.08	395.37	76.33	367	556
5/11/2018	30742	53.70	86.47	386.45	77.24	367	595
07/1/2018	32343	54.65	88.00	395.87	80.15	368	648
7/21/2018	32633	54.23	87.23	395.50	79.19	368	661
8/11/2018	33142	54.20	87.28	395.50	79.10	368	679
09/4/2018	33603	54.18	87.19	395.35	78.91	368	699
9/29/2018	34488	54.14	87.19	395.75	78.91	369	722

Interestingly, prices for all vintage leafs have held steady or gone up in the last year, check on cargurus.com, or click here (maybe)
mU-QaIwLacN69iUw952qQG3OH-xWkKyImigGsQb7Zr2O6IkbYBkpuyoM4jCCyNhqaSKoLIvkeemlWJyJqTv4rMtl4zAX5lK78iU2QFE97fuiloaDOCnojpg34zR8dXgI7EFYC0gr40YmlYMAKme5JpId7AmxHYEUTi3uuHVRrWOCydNAlq647OuUK0Wldbc0hv_NbCmU4TkSpR7vinKgr1LXiAzvuI7FZ7_BdMo0XVDQsZXbQFIPJcPQbDCHo0bN7Ds7R163bodJPAOKsOgUdJ7LQ27Rl1wNiU36in1l1VrMZoGXfnydmAg3-5N0KxtDgVFURCRnYvqss6UfO0Ptn2PMx6kVMY9SZkwX5XHWRG_Ht6YpGAQXWtuaoH3MBd7OuyJo0gOT3FxyHSb7w5wJlPt4VX39bCYSDU_MlZLuQPvhYk0F2n6g_yitRAYVWvZrc9GvTHYtPxHUA1sQiKjRCRKZUXikw4v1S2LDMDffDoeYxi4aJI_w1u1LD43erFzBo2s6l8WClfEqV_sfREe-W19USBeIdv93YPeLRMzlLR6mMiAcbcw23fNggDTTmEbz8oxUidQurcvBc9jfgd4AmVPtaAhuq_eiSVvhejHqSg3c1fxdR5x7WIR8ZqYOm3U=w616-h520-no
 
Thanks for the update and data.

I didn't use leafSpy when I went to test drive yesterday for my Leaf purchase.
I read about people being able to reset the capacity bars but this dealer has been in Used Leaf business for a while and I trust him.

My 2015 Leaf S shows 12 bars and has 33K miles.
And yours has even more miles.
So my 12 bars is probably real.

I agree that 2015 S is a bargain. It has all the things I need.
I used to be fixated on purchasing a new EV to qualify for the $7500 tax credit, but buying a used Leaf is also a great way to go, I realized.
 
My 2015 Leaf S shows 12 bars and has 33K miles.
And yours has even more miles.
So my 12 bars is probably real.

It probably is real, but mileage doesn't equate to or even roughly correspond with remaining capacity. It's all about how hot the battery got, and for how long, and how often, for a given pack type. With "Canary" packs the age of the pack also matters. There was a Leaf that turned 100,000 miles with 12 bars a couple of years ago (in a very cool climate) and many that have lost a bar before 10,000 miles.
 
tesleaf said:
Thanks for the update and data.

I didn't use leafSpy when I went to test drive yesterday for my Leaf purchase.
I read about people being able to reset the capacity bars but this dealer has been in Used Leaf business for a while and I trust him.

My 2015 Leaf S shows 12 bars and has 33K miles.
And yours has even more miles.
So my 12 bars is probably real.

I agree that 2015 S is a bargain. It has all the things I need.
I used to be fixated on purchasing a new EV to qualify for the $7500 tax credit, but buying a used Leaf is also a great way to go, I realized.

I'm looking at a 2015 S this weekend as well, but I will be hooking Leaf Spy up to it before I make any decisions. It is showing all 12 bars and I think it's a California car. For me, I cannot afford to buy any of the new EVs on the market and quite frankly, I'm not a huge fan of the credits anyway since not everyone is entitled to them - something I think many people are confused about. I never owe taxes at the end of the year due to my income level, so the federal credit would do me no good anyway and that's if I could afford a new EV in the first place.

Hopefully the new bill that has been introduced to extend the credits is approved. From what I have read, it is also calling for the credits to be taken off of the purchase price at the time of sale rather than being tied to tax liability at the end of the year. I think that would go a long way towards making these cars more affordable to people who otherwise could not afford $30K or more for a car - personal opinion.
 
LeftieBiker said:
It probably is real, but mileage doesn't equate to or even roughly correspond with remaining capacity. It's all about how hot the battery got, and for how long, and how often, for a given pack type. With "Canary" packs the age of the pack also matters. There was a Leaf that turned 100,000 miles with 12 bars a couple of years ago (in a very cool climate) and many that have lost a bar before 10,000 miles.

I see.

Mine was a lease at santa rosa, CA which is a little north of San Francisco. I googled august weather and avg high temp is 82°F. Not bad.
 
tattoogunman said:
I'm looking at a 2015 S this weekend as well, but I will be hooking Leaf Spy up to it before I make any decisions. It is showing all 12 bars and I think it's a California car. For me, I cannot afford to buy any of the new EVs on the market and quite frankly, I'm not a huge fan of the credits anyway since not everyone is entitled to them - something I think many people are confused about. I never owe taxes at the end of the year due to my income level, so the federal credit would do me no good anyway and that's if I could afford a new EV in the first place.

Hopefully the new bill that has been introduced to extend the credits is approved. From what I have read, it is also calling for the credits to be taken off of the purchase price at the time of sale rather than being tied to tax liability at the end of the year. I think that would go a long way towards making these cars more affordable to people who otherwise could not afford $30K or more for a car - personal opinion.


I test drove 3 leafs. 2014 SV and 2015 S. The one i got felt peppier than the other two and the interior/exterior also looked better. It could have been just the difference In the tire pressure but this one just felt and drove better like a new car.
 
tesleaf said:
tattoogunman said:
I'm looking at a 2015 S this weekend as well, but I will be hooking Leaf Spy up to it before I make any decisions. It is showing all 12 bars and I think it's a California car. For me, I cannot afford to buy any of the new EVs on the market and quite frankly, I'm not a huge fan of the credits anyway since not everyone is entitled to them - something I think many people are confused about. I never owe taxes at the end of the year due to my income level, so the federal credit would do me no good anyway and that's if I could afford a new EV in the first place.

Hopefully the new bill that has been introduced to extend the credits is approved. From what I have read, it is also calling for the credits to be taken off of the purchase price at the time of sale rather than being tied to tax liability at the end of the year. I think that would go a long way towards making these cars more affordable to people who otherwise could not afford $30K or more for a car - personal opinion.


I test drove 3 leafs. 2014 SV and 2015 S. The one i got felt peppier than the other two and the interior/exterior also looked better. It could have been just the difference In the tire pressure but this one just felt and drove better like a new car.

I've test drove them before and while I wouldn't turn down a top end model, I've traditionally been a base model kind of guy. It's not like the trim level is really helping the older cars maintain a much higher resale value to justify the extra money :D
 
tattoogunman said:
tesleaf said:
Thanks for the update and data.
I'm not a huge fan of the credits anyway since not everyone is entitled to them - something I think many people are confused about. I never owe taxes at the end of the year due to my income level, so the federal credit would do me no good anyway and that's if I could afford a new EV in the first place.

The way this works is you still benefit from the tax credit even if you buy a used leaf. The credit suppresses the whole market though you may not 'feel' the entire 7500.

I am *just about* to lose that 12th bar but no matter, I still get decent range. Yesterdays GOM was 91, optimistic but satisfying.
 
pipestem said:
tattoogunman said:
tesleaf said:
Thanks for the update and data.
I'm not a huge fan of the credits anyway since not everyone is entitled to them - something I think many people are confused about. I never owe taxes at the end of the year due to my income level, so the federal credit would do me no good anyway and that's if I could afford a new EV in the first place.

The way this works is you still benefit from the tax credit even if you buy a used leaf. The credit suppresses the whole market though you may not 'feel' the entire 7500.

I am *just about* to lose that 12th bar but no matter, I still get decent range. Yesterdays GOM was 91, optimistic but satisfying.

Mine lost the 1st bar today. SOH is 85%. Like everyone was saying the 1st bar is 15%.
I like my Leaf more everyday although it has been only about 2 weeks. :D
I let my 14 y.o. daughter move the car in the driveway using only the brake pedal today.
It was her first time operating a car. And it is an electric car!
We are living in that exciting time when the transition is happening.
Her kids will probably never drive an ICE.
 
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