60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Hi guys,

I want to try an used electric car for my daily 60 miles roundtrip commute and I need your advice.
I don't wanna' break the bank for my first electric car so do you think a 2012 Nissan Leaf can do that? Even in the winter?
I live in a mountain area so there is no highway, only curvy roads and in the winter the temps can go down as low as 0 Fahrenheit but not very often. The average temp in winter is 30 to 20 Fahrenheit.

I'm thinking to charge the car only at work where is a free level 2 charger.
From work I will climb slowly for 24 miles and the last 6 miles are on a very descent downhill where I can put some juice in the batteries.
Back from home I will really climb those 6 miles but the next 24 miles are only downhill where again I can save some power.
What do you think? Can a used Leaf do that? Which year I should consider?

Thank's in advance guys!

Welcome to the LEAF forum, Costy!

Costy said:

I want to try an used electric car for my daily 60 miles roundtrip commute and I need your advice.
I don't wanna' break the bank for my first electric car so do you think a 2012 Nissan Leaf can do that? Even in the winter?

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Not unless you plan to charge both at home and at work.

Costy said:

I live in a mountain area so there is no highway, only curvy roads and in the winter the temps can go down as low as 0 Fahrenheit but not very often. The average temp in winter is 30 to 20 Fahrenheit.

I'm thinking to charge the car only at work where is a free level 2 charger.
From work I will climb slowly for 24 miles and the last 6 miles are on a very descent downhill where I can put some juice in the batteries.
Back from home I will really climb those 6 miles but the next 24 miles are only downhill where again I can save some power.
What do you think? Can a used Leaf do that? Which year I should consider?

Click to expand...

There are a couple of issues that you will face that you should consider:

- Most importantly, after Nissan had issues with the batteries degrading quickly, they reprogrammed the Battery Management System (BMS) so that it will NOT charge the battery when the battery is degraded and cold. Our MY2011 LEAF has lost three capacity bars and below about 30F it will not charge the battery AT ALL until the battery gets below about 30% state-of-charge. The result is that in the mountains you have this heavy car and there is NO braking force. I recommend that you read the posts by abasile in this thread which talk about the severe brake heating issue he is experiencing while descending from the mountain he lives on. The LEAF is great for this when new, but once the battery has degraded and Nissan takes away ALL regeneration, it is worse than any car since it is heavy and there is NO form of engine braking. This lack of regen also hurts wintertime range. So, no, you don't want an old LEAF for mountain driving.

- Another issue is the tires. The Bridgestone Ecopias which come with the car are quite important for achieving any reasonable range, but they wear out quickly if they are subjected to a lot of cornering. In your case, I suspect you may eat tires.

Now that the 2018s are coming out, you might be able to get a decent deal on a low-mileage MY2015 LEAF. The benefit of the 2015s is that they have a more durable battery. But the fact is that eventually that battery will degrade and you will have the regeneration problem.

It's an unfortunate situation, but I'm not sure the pre-2018 LEAF is for you. And we don't even know if they have fixed this issue in that car. I'm thinking you might have better luck with something like the Ford Focus Electric if you can find one.

I hope this helps! Good luck!

Don't do it. I had a 2012 Leaf with a 60 mile commute. There are many days I could not have made it without going out for lunch to find a charger close by. I also had to turn the heat off on cold days in order to make it.

Get a used BMW I3 with range extender, a VOLT, or one of the newer EVs with higher mileage.

Yes, it will cost more.

+1 to what 'RegGuheert' said

what is your average speed while driving to work?

if you get a later 2013 or 2014, 2015 model, it will be doable, especially if you average 30-40 mph on those mountain roads. The only time where it would get tricky is in the extreme cold as the battery starts to wear.

since you plan to plug in at work, then you have the flexibility to top it off at home in the winter months when the range will be more borderline. I did a 120 mile round trip commute all summer and fall and a few times into the winter and i plugged in on both ends and never had any range issues, even down to 35-40F (i realize you will get colder, but your trip is half as long).

the other major consideration is the elevation change over those 24 miles. How many feet is that? hills make a big difference with the range of the Leaf.

cheers
Marko

I live in the mountains and have done a 130 mile commute once a week in my 2013 over a 10,000ft up and down change in elevation most of last year. Basically I'm completely nuts for even trying to do this, but only once did I actually not make it. So 60 miles should work fine if you do like RegGuheert said:

RegGuheert said:

Not unless you plan to charge both at home and at work.

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Forget the 2012. The 2013's made after April and later Leafs are the way to go. Get an SV or SL since the heat pump will help with your range.

How steep is it where you live? If you use Google Maps and use the bicycle option it should tell you elevation change. "Mountain" can mean different things to different people. Basically in one day I'd do a total of 20,000ft of elevation change. And that's not even very mountainous for me.

The cold does kill regen! So do bumpy roads. But 30*F isn't very cold. I tried driving my route at -15*F at highway speeds and made it 30 miles and had 23% left.

I agree about avoiding the 2011 and 2012 Leafs, but I would think there should be 2013 and 2014 Leafs that would work in this case, with 2015 being the best choice. The trip is 60 miles round trip, and he has a Level 2 charger at work. He may need to do some charging at home as well, especially in the winter. I think this is a great use case for an April 2013 or later Leaf. The key is having the level 2 charger at work. Huge money savings with that!

rocolema said:

Get a used BMW I3 with range extender, a VOLT, or one of the newer EVs with higher mileage.

Yes, it will cost more.

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i3 REx is unreliable. I wouldn't buy one nor keep one out of warranty. There's a decent chance one will have a new "hobby" of frequently taking it to the "spa" (dealer) for repairs.

Costy said:

Hi guys,

I want to try an used electric car for my daily 60 miles roundtrip commute and I need your advice.
I don't wanna' break the bank for my first electric car so do you think a 2012 Nissan Leaf can do that? Even in the winter?
I live in a mountain area so there is no highway, only curvy roads and in the winter the temps can go down as low as 0 Fahrenheit but not very often. The average temp in winter is 30 to 20 Fahrenheit.

I'm thinking to charge the car only at work where is a free level 2 charger.
From work I will climb slowly for 24 miles and the last 6 miles are on a very descent downhill where I can put some juice in the batteries.
Back from home I will really climb those 6 miles but the next 24 miles are only downhill where again I can save some power.
What do you think? Can a used Leaf do that? Which year I should consider?

Thank's in advance guys!

Click to expand...

Forget it.

0 F weather will crush the Leaf's range, and reliably getting 60 miles on a charge in those conditions is a non-starter. Don't even worry about it; you can't do it. Not even close, so don't even bother trying to figure out how.

The 2013's made after April and later Leafs are the way to go.

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That's "made after MARCH" of 2013. It is theoretically possible that there is a 4/2013 Leaf out there with the old chemistry, but we've never seen any sign of one. It is thus likely that the pack chemistry was switched on 4/1/13.

DuncanCunningham said:

+1 to what 'RegGuheert' said

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+1000000000

I have the same 60 mile round trip, and am also considering a used leaf (not sure if a 2015 would do it, leaning more toward 2016 with the larger battery), but in central Florida.

Hardly any elevation change to speak of, but we do get into the high teens-lower 20’s sometimes when I leave for work in the winter, and sometimes it’s in the low hundreds when I head home in the summer.
Definitely need to be able to use A/C or heater most of the year on both legs of the trip.

No chargers at work, but if I buy an EV I’d install an L2 at the house.

I do see 2018’s Leafs starting to trickle in to dealers!

A 30kwh Leaf in Florida is likely to end up with less capacity than a used 2015 24kwh car.

EatsShootsandLeafs said:

Forget it.

0 F weather will crush the Leaf's range, and reliably getting 60 miles on a charge in those conditions is a non-starter. Don't even worry about it; you can't do it. Not even close, so don't even bother trying to figure out how.

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It's 60 miles ROUND TRIP with an L2 charger at work.

It's 60 miles ROUND TRIP with an L2 charger at work.

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And no home charging. Read the first post.

If home charging is possible, but you'd just prefer to use the free power from work (and who wouldn't?), then you could try it, and if you find that you can't drive 60 miles on a charge in winter, then you're only out the cost of the power. Charging at home for 50% of the miles for 40% of the year, at 20k miles/year, would cost me about $300/year, where I live. Spending $3k extra on a newer Leaf, to save $300/year in power, would never break-even. Of course, a newer car is nicer than an older car, and if that $3k extra means that the Leaf lasts 2 more years before replacement, then it would be worth it.

If charging at home is not feasible (e.g. street parking; or apartment owner won't put in an outlet), then I'd be more conservative.

Let me put it this way. The 2011-2017 Leaf is a car designed for a normal daily commute of around 30 miles average. It will go farther, as much as double or more. But you don't want to be driving it to 1% to make it back home in the middle of nowhere. If you can charge every 30 miles any Leaf is probably going to work fine.

Thank you very much guys for your quick and honest answers. It seems like I'm not going to make it with an older Leaf.
Someone asked me about the elevation. At home I have about 2200 feet, on top of the mountain I have 3220 feet and at work only 1100 feet.
From the top of the mountain to work I go downhill about 95% of the time and from top to home I go downhill 100%. The average speed is about 35-40 miles.
I was looking also for a 30kWh 2016 Leaf but I don't know how much it will really help me.
The 2018 Leaf looks nice but it's kind of expensive and I was reading lately a lot of good things about 2017 Hyundai Ioniq EV.
I will wait for 3 to 6 months to see how the prices will go with last 2 years models and I will make a decision. I will look at other manufacturers options too. It seems that from Nissan, only the new Leaf is going to really make it all year long.

Costy said:

Someone asked me about the elevation. At home I have about 2200 feet, on top of the mountain I have 3220 feet and at work only 1100 feet.
From the top of the mountain to work I go downhill about 95% of the time and from top to home I go downhill 100%. The average speed is about 35-40 miles.

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That profile really is quite ideal if you are charging at work IF THE REGEN IS WORKING. The reason is that you will deplete the battery significantly before you start downhill. You probably want AT LEAST 20 kW of regen available, if you have more available, like maybe 30 kW, then you can do more than hold your speed on the downhills: you can slow the car for the turns, too.

Costy said:

I was looking also for a 30kWh 2016 Leaf but I don't know how much it will really help me.

Click to expand...

As LeftieBiker said above, the batteries in the 30-kWh LEAFs are degrading faster than those in the 24-kWh LEAFs, so the regen problem is likely to arise fairly quickly. The good news about the 30-kWh LEAFs is that they are warranted for capacity loss for 8 years or 100,000 miles, which means you are likely to get a new battery in there along the way (or maybe even two!).

Costy said:

The 2018 Leaf looks nice but it's kind of expensive and I was reading lately a lot of good things about 2017 Hyundai Ioniq EV.

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There's a fairly long thread on the Hyundai Ioniq on this forum, in case you are interested. Some of the LEAF owners here bought that when it came out. I remember the comments were fairly positive. I don't know about its regen capabilities, though.

Costy said:

I will wait for 3 to 6 months to see how the prices will go with last 2 years models and I will make a decision. I will look at other manufacturers options too. It seems that from Nissan, only the new Leaf is going to really make it all year long.

Click to expand...

Actually, given the elevation profiles you have ANY LEAF will work well WHEN NEW or WITH A NEW BATTERY. The main issue is with the loss of regen as they get older. That's a double whammy since it eats your brakes AND takes away your chance to recover energy downhill, which greatly hurts the efficiency in the cold (which is already worse than in the warm).

BTW, if you wait 3 to 6 months, you will be testing your car in warm weather. I recommend that you instead test drive whatever car you are looking at ON YOUR WORK ROUTE IN COLD OR VERY COLD WEATHER. That's when efficiency and regen are the worst in any EV. Only then will you really know if the car is going to work for you. For instance, I'm confident that my MY2011 LEAF with its three-bar-degraded battery will work quite well on your commute, regen and all, in temperatures above about 70F.

@Costy Where are you located? Climate makes a big difference on battery degradation, so no one can give you accurate advice without knowing where you live.

Also, the EV trip planner is useful for ESTIMATING the energy use for your route:

https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/

Use the "Nissan LEAF (Beta)" profile with the following settings:

Fill in the starting point (A) and destination point (B), then:

Speed multiplier: 1.0
Cabin Temp: 72
Ext Temp: 25
Payload: 200
Wind: 0
Initial Charge: 100
Buffer Charge: 10

Click the Route Direct button, then look at the "Total Energy Used" value

Post back on this thread what that value is.

BTW, if you get yourself an L2 EVSE for home use then you shouldn't have any problems doing this commute in a 2013/2014 SV with a healthy battery. Longer term, your climate is going to dictate whether you can continue to do that commute as battery degradation rate is almost entirely dictated by how hot your summers are (provided you don't otherwise do abusive charging cycles).