3.3KW Regrets?

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erco

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2017
Messages
110
Location
Los Angeles, CA
I'm looking at a 2014 S with just the 3.3KW charger. Pretty good price (asking $7500, maybe less) on a clean, local 12-bar car with 30K miles. It's a cheap first electric car. Will I regret being limited to that 3.3kW charger? Seems like that slow charge rate won't help much to recharge out on errands. Even with free charging around town, it takes so long. Guess I'll be charging mostly or exclusively at home. If I get this car, I'll plan to get an L2 charger, I already have an unused 220 dryer outlet in the garage. This will REALLY force me to plan my trips ahead of time.
 
I'm biased, but I would hate to be stuck with a 3.6 kW OBC. Think of it this way...

At 6.6 kW charging rate, you can add 6.6 kWh to the pack after one hour (assuming a steady charging rate and no losses). Reality is more like 6.4 kWh. For a 2014 Leaf, 6.4 kWh is roughly 30% of useable pack charge. Also, assuming 4 miles/kWh, that's roughly 25 miles of added range per hour.

At 3.6 kW charging rate, you can add 3.6 kWh to the pack after one hour (assuming a steady charging rate and no losses). Reality is more like 3.4 kWh. For a 2014 Leaf, 3.4 kWh is roughly 15% of useable pack charge. Also, assuming 4 miles/kWh, that's roughly 12 miles of added range per hour.

Over night charging, assuming a 240V EVSE, isn't really a problem.

However, you'll find that there are times when you are home for a couple of hours and then you need to go out again. Also, it's nice to charge for free when you stop in somewhere for a meal. Having the 6.6 kW OBC means I can add almost 60% useable pack charge in 2 hours - same at public EVSEs.

With a 3.3 kW OBC, it's those adhoc charging scenarios when you'll get frustated with how slow it charges. The 6.6 kW charging is bad enough, I would love to be able to double or triple that rate.

Of course, I have the luxury of a DCQC when I'm going on longer trips and can plan ahead. Unfortunately, in Vancouver (Canada), we don't have many DCQC stations so adhoc charging really only happens if I'm lucky enough to be in the right neighborhood...
 
Clearly it depends a lot on your situation: I suppose I'm a rare case, but a few months back I bought a used 2013 with the 6.6kw charger and DCQC, and so far I've only been charging at L1 with the included EVSE. Because of my short work commute and the fact that we shop close to where we live, I have been fine on L1. In fact, I can sometimes get by with only charging on Saturday and Sunday mornings (no charges during the week).

I only suffered from range anxiety once -- did a lot of errands on a hot Saturday after only charging to 80% (my bad), and had to drop off my son at a friend's house at the top of a tall, steep hill. Made it back to my house with about 11%, no AC, windows open. Lesson learned!

Anyway, I haven't used L2 or DCQC charging. I keep thinking I probably should install an L2 EVSE-- but why?

To be fair, I have a backup ICE vehicle, a 3/4 ton diesel truck that mostly gets used for towing our camping trailer, or hauling mountain bikes on the weekends. But I drive it so rarely that it needs a battery tender.
 
This really depends on how you use the car. If you only use it for short trips and in town then charge overnight you will never notice the difference. With no DCFC capability, the car is only good for local use anyway. The upside is that it's really GOOD for use as a local commuter and errand runner. As long as your daily range requirement is less than 40 miles you are go to go. Just remember to plug it in every night.
 
The higher rate onboard charger is 6 kW, not 6.6 kW output to the battery. The 3.3 kW charger will deliver 3.3 kW to the battery so the higher rate is not quite twice as fast with maximum current available. I have had experience with both. I was glad I had the DCQC port on the 2011 because its onboard charger was only 3.3 kW output so the quick charge made charging for extra trips during the day feasible. I was actually looking into the possibility of obtaining a small DCQC that would operate on single-phase 208-240 volts for faster charging at my house and workshop. The 6 kW charger in the 2015 eliminated the need for a DCQC unit at my house and workshop because it charges fast enough on L2 to make extra trips during the day easy. I still use the DCQC port for last-minute trips across town because it is easier to pay the high charging cost than to go home and exchange vehicles. I took advantage of Nissan's No Charge To Charge program when my 2015 was new and I still use QC when needed so I have 97 QCs even though I have the 6 kW onboard charger.

The quick charge port (or quick charge package) is one option that seems to hold its resale value. This is why you see cars without it at much lower prices than cars that have it. Whether you need the quick charge package or not really depends upon your usage patterns (which you will not really know until you have the car for a while). The LEAF has become my primary vehicle and I suspect it will become your primary car if you get one.
 
It will depend on where you live and mileage of typical errands, etc. I've lived with just a 3.3 for last 3 years. maybe twice I've worried the car didn't have enough juice to run the needed errand. But I live in small town and my typical errand is maybe 5 miles round trip. I also work from home. So anytime I'm home I can charge if needed. in bigger cities it would be harder call.
 
I also charge with L-1 only at home. The 6.6/6.0 charger is handy when I'm on a longer trip and really need all the extra rangee I can get at charging stations, but in normal driving I could manage with half the charge. I get 1% charge added per every two minutes at typical commercial stations, so figure 1% every 3.5 minutes or so with the 3.3.
 
Lots of good info/posts.
Having lived with 3.3 kW for 6+ years now, I can say this: if you're basically going to be charging over-night, it really doesn't matter with the "small" battery pack in Leaf 1.0. When that capacity increases with Leaf 2.0, then 6.0 kW might make a difference (even at night).
 
I would NEVER consider a "new" LEAF that did not have QC so getting a used one without it??

Not happening here. Its just too much inconvenience
 
I frequently charge my RAV-4EV at 3.3 rate and it is never a problem or regret. Might cramp my style on a rare occasion to get filled up using the super off-peak window of 10p to 8a but not generally a problem.
 
I really like the 6.6kwh recharge rate when out and about using free L2 EVSEs. 1hr of shopping gives me ~30% while a 2hr charge ~60%, roughly half with my 3.3kwh Leaf which is noticeably slower :(
Also nice to be able to come home, charge at 6.6kwh and leave a couple hours later with almost a full battery.
If you just plan on overnight charging the 3.3 is just fine.
 
@DaveinOlyWA @erco

I just get tired of trying to help people, carefully crafting a thought out response, only to have the OP disappear. Obviously not the case this time around, sorry @erco. You guys are right, I should spend less time on this site :lol:

Checking out now, see y'all in a week.
 
erco said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
or could be a "once a day online" person... how strange! :roll:

:shock:

Ah! Welcome back the 12 step mee.... I mean to ahh, ahh forum.

As always its solely dependent on how you plan to use the LEAF. Many here started with the intention of the LEAF being the commuter car with a steady XX miles to work and back so very much a predetermined amount of use that made it easy to plan charging no matter how slow the charge was.

But that by and large, did not work out as the EV spell quickly took over and their previously much beloved (insert gasser here) suddenly became tarnished and simply.... smelly! The gasser's role became smaller and smaller and eventually was sold or simply driven "because its been a while" as the challenge of making the EV work in more and more places became a somewhat enjoyable pastime in a very masochistic sort of way.

For you it might be different, you just never know. Now I drove 3.3 KW LEAF for almost 3 years and survived... BY FAST CHARGING! :mrgreen:
 
The 2011 and 2012 cars only had 16A 240V chargers. If you have overnight then slow charge is fine. I also recharged at work and the car was topped off when I left for home. My 2012 had an unused L3 socket.

Where the 16A charger does not work is when you are waiting. Also the higher charger also includes L3 charging.

It really depends on your use. Without L3 charging I could not visit Tony Williams in San Diego.

My current car has 40A L2 only and it works for me. I see no reason to add Tony's 3K L3 mod. My 2014 Mercedes B had 14 months left on the lease and had 9023 miles on the odometer. I was planning on a Tesla 3 but with its delays it would not have worked out. Now my lease does not expire until 9'/2020. Many have 30K in the same time period. Every one is different. I am now retired but one way to the city shop was 19.6 miles so a Leaf worked out fine.
 
$7500 isn't that amazing of a deal for that car. It's good, but if you shop around you'll do better. Last January I got a 2013 with 6.6kw and QC for $7900. I HIGHLY recommend shopping around and getting one with 6.6kw and a quick charge ability. I really don't think it matters what you think you'll use it for. If you get the 3.3kw you HAVE TO use it a particular way and you are completely stopping yourself from being able to travel, or do much of anything but commute and charge overnight at home.

Good luck..it's a fun car. You won't regret it!
 
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