New 2016 SV - $23,200 - Good Deal?

Story,,,, We already have a Leaf. Quite familiar with the cars, LeafSpy, etc., and I'm not quite looking for a new car, however ran across an aggressive dealer looking to sell, apparently at a loss, a 2016 SV for $23,200. I verified they are not including the federal credit in the price. So the price woudl be roughly about $25000 with tax - $7500 fed which I'd need to wait a year to recover. $17500? Wife drives a Leaf while I drive a hybrid. I really envy the remote heating capabilities, heated seats and steering wheel. Hers is a 1 bar loser and we could take advantage of the bigger battery more often than just commuting to work (~10 miles roundtrip).

Thoughts? Thinking of jumping on it.

4/16 build
no other options

thx.

Finance it for 3 years and it's like a slightly expensive lease with zero residual. That sounds phenomenal to me but I don't keep up with the Leaf deals the way some folks do.

Well, what can I say. I went for a similar deal on a 2016 S30. After discounts, rebates, loyalty reward, and tax credit - the actual price was $16,125. Hard to pass that one up. It is fine to talk about BMW i3s, Chevy Bolts, or Tesla 3s. But then you are likely facing OTD prices of something like $35K and up as the vehicles are available. Back here in the real world, it is pretty hard to pass up a reliable and proven EV capable of up to 120 miles per charge at $16K. Or $17.5 in your case - and you get heated steering wheel, hybrid heating system, alloy wheels, and navigation system in the bargain. Life is good!

It does sound like a very good deal.....if it will work for you
My wife and I are in a similar position except I drive the Leaf and she drives a Prius. We added heated seats to her Prius basically day one, front and rears, but she really envies my heated steering wheel(probably my favorite feature of the Leaf) and of course pre-heat. I've also thought of switching to all BEVs, but then I think it over I just can't pull the trigger. I use my Leaf for work, anywhere from a 5 to 60 mile a day so it works fine, she currently has a 10 mile RT commute. Once home we basically use the Leaf exclusively, unless we need longer than the 50-60 mile winter range or 60-70 summer range. Why I'm not willing to go all BEV is because of our several trips, anywhere from 100 to 3000 miles each and at least once/year. True a 30kw Leaf like your looking at could eliminate maybe a half dozen of our in-town trips, more than my current Leaf but less than the maximum range of the 30kw Leaf, it would still leave the longer vacation trips. Another advantage to keeping at least one ICE vehicle is for long in-town trips. Today for example my wife is using her Prius because she probably has a 100?? mile errand trip planned, I'd be leery even with the 30kw Leaf doing such a trip with near constant heat use(my wife likes her heat). With her Prius it's no problem and she'll probably be getting MPG around 40 which means for ~2.5 gallons of gas(currently totaling $5.50) she won't have to sweat anything out, so as tempting as it is to kick the ICE habit I just can't see doing it all together.

Our Prius is nearing 10 years old and I'd like to replace it with something, I'd love the Volt to work for us but with it's EXTREMELY cramped interior not to mention cargo area, I just can't seeing it working. I'd really like to at least get her a PHEV, which severely limits our choices, especially for something roomy in passenger and cargo room. The new Prius Prime could be an ideal candidate but for whatever idiotic reason the designers decided to make it a 4 passenger only vehicle and while 5 is OK we'd really prefer 6 or more, which leaves a Minivan or larger SUV, both of which are impossible to find(in the US) in a new vehicle. We're seriously looking at the Chrysler Pacifica, PHEV, 30 EV mile range, room for 7-8 but the price is a bit step, at least for the first few models that are due in a few months which like Nissan did will be top trim models only. Apparently they will introduce lower trim models at some point but I'd suspect more years than months and we'd really like to replace the Prius in the next year or so. Now if Mitsubishi ever gets their act together and comes out with a PHEV outlander, priced below $40k before any rebates that might be an option but last I heard only the PHEV will lack the 3rd row :x (space for the battery) and since they've been talking about importing them for several years without any advancement, who knows if they'll ever actually do anything

Your situation might be different but keep in mind it is nice to be able to have at least one ICE for backup, and an efficient one helps too

Phatcat73 said:

Story,,,, We already have a Leaf. Quite familiar with the cars, LeafSpy, etc., and I'm not quite looking for a new car, however ran across an aggressive dealer looking to sell, apparently at a loss, a 2016 SV for $23,200. I verified they are not including the federal credit in the price. So the price woudl be roughly about $25000 with tax - $7500 fed which I'd need to wait a year to recover. $17500? Wife drives a Leaf while I drive a hybrid. I really envy the remote heating capabilities, heated seats and steering wheel. Hers is a 1 bar loser and we could take advantage of the bigger battery more often than just commuting to work (~10 miles roundtrip).

Thoughts? Thinking of jumping on it.

4/16 build
no other options

thx.

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1) not a good deal... it is an average deal
2) they are not selling it for a loss. manufacturing incentives are very good right now
3) I would jump on it if you qualify for the full fed tax credit. it is a VERY good buy
4) the benefits of 30 kwh cannot be overstated. If you charge on the road, you will find that fast charging is actually now fast. The additional range is significant. the additional warranty coverage is significant.

Only thing I would do is check the build date. don't buy it if its more than 6 months old. Now that is my thing but I consider me to be a great adviser...

Phatcat, make sure to read this thread:
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=22667#p471546

Only thing I would do is check the build date. don't buy it if its more than 6 months old. Now that is my thing but I consider me to be a great adviser...

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The build date is in the original post, at the bottom.

To the OP: I'd jump on it, with one proviso: check it with LeafSpy first! We have seen at least one 2016 that sat on hot lots, likely at 100% SOC, and the state of health was 86% when driven home. That's 14% capacity loss, and lower than my 2013.

LeftieBiker said:

Only thing I would do is check the build date. don't buy it if its more than 6 months old. Now that is my thing but I consider me to be a great adviser...

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The build date is in the original post, at the bottom.

To the OP: I'd jump on it, with one proviso: check it with LeafSpy first! We have seen at least one 2016 that sat on hot lots, likely at 100% SOC, and the state of health was 86% when driven home. That's 14% capacity loss, and lower than my 2013.

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statement provided for others benefit.

It's probably a fair deal, but just keep in mind that in 3 years it probably will have a resale value of less than $7500, maybe a lot less. Current Leafs off lease are going for that amount, and in 3 years we're going to have multiple EVs with 200 mile range. If you plan to keep it for say 8 years, maybe none of that matters, but if not you probably should pencil in a low resale value in your calculations.

If you really want a good deal you might want to consider looking at used inventory, especially in upcoming months as a flood of 2014 Leafs come off lease (2014 was the best year for the Leaf in terms of sales). Granted, they have somewhat less range than a new 30 kWh.

Another alternative might be to see what sort of terms you can get for a lease, with the intention of most likely walking away at the end (unless you get a good deal).

I have to be honest with you, I don't think I'd buy a new Leaf right now for the price you're being quoted, even after all rebates. Even just this year the Hyunai Ioniq Electric should be coming out, with a 120 mile range, and greater efficiency. It could pay to drive the hybrid for another six months and see what your options are then.

jjeff said:

Our Prius is nearing 10 years old and I'd like to replace it with something, I'd love the Volt to work for us but with it's EXTREMELY cramped interior not to mention cargo area, I just can't seeing it working. I'd really like to at least get her a PHEV, which severely limits our choices, especially for something roomy in passenger and cargo room.

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Since you say you've considered going all BEV, have you considered the Bolt? It has a pretty spacious interior. There's plenty of room for me to fit with someone behind me and I'm 6'4" tall. It has a good amount of cargo space, too. Actually, in a lot of ways it's like a little bit larger Leaf. In terms of range there shouldn't be any real problems unless you regularly go on road trips.

Nagorak said:

It's probably a fair deal, but just keep in mind that in 3 years it probably will have a resale value of less than $7500, maybe a lot less. Current Leafs off lease are going for that amount, and in 3 years we're going to have multiple EVs with 200 mile range. If you plan to keep it for say 8 years, maybe none of that matters, but if not you probably should pencil in a low resale value in your calculations.

If you really want a good deal you might want to consider looking at used inventory, especially in upcoming months as a flood of 2014 Leafs come off lease (2014 was the best year for the Leaf in terms of sales). Granted, they have somewhat less range than a new 30 kWh.

Another alternative might be to see what sort of terms you can get for a lease, with the intention of most likely walking away at the end (unless you get a good deal).

I have to be honest with you, I don't think I'd buy a new Leaf right now for the price you're being quoted, even after all rebates. Even just this year the Hyunai Ioniq Electric should be coming out, with a 120 mile range, and greater efficiency. It could pay to drive the hybrid for another six months and see what your options are then.

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these "resale" opinions need to be clarified here. Let me spin mine here

If we have a $7500 resale in 3 years; what are we losing?

First off; LEAF cost $24,000 minus fed cred means TCO to zero; 16,500. Ahh but this is not a zero sum game, its a what is better game.

So before we get to all that, we need to get a baseline.


so LEAF score; 16,500 plus charging costs (we will say $500 a year which is pretty close for most. remember you also have 2 years of NCTC) so now we have $18,000 minus sale price $7500 leaves us 10,500 out of pocket.

But now we take a gasser. Same sale price (this negates the deltas in financing) $24,000. so we add fuel costs which could be maybe say $1000 a year (12,000 miles annually a cheap gas at $2.50 on a 30 mpg car. adjust as you see fit) so balance is now $27,000. This is a very reliable car so maintenance will be zero (its common to get first 5 oil changes free)

So we have to sell this car for at least $16,500. So exactly how much did we lose on this deal???

Nagorak said:

jjeff said:

Our Prius is nearing 10 years old and I'd like to replace it with something, I'd love the Volt to work for us but with it's EXTREMELY cramped interior not to mention cargo area, I just can't seeing it working. I'd really like to at least get her a PHEV, which severely limits our choices, especially for something roomy in passenger and cargo room.

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Since you say you've considered going all BEV, have you considered the Bolt? It has a pretty spacious interior. There's plenty of room for me to fit with someone behind me and I'm 6'4" tall. It has a good amount of cargo space, too. Actually, in a lot of ways it's like a little bit larger Leaf. In terms of range there shouldn't be any real problems unless you regularly go on road trips.

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I will certainly look at one but it was my belief, mostly from reading on MNL that the Bolt was smaller than the Leaf :? my biggest turn off in a car is when the distance between the seat top and inside lip of the roof(door jam) is too short so as I can't back into the seat without hitting my head. I dislike having to crawl into the car head first and many cars like to have the sleek/low roofline and unless the seat is very low to the ground(which I also dislike) it means a short distance between the seat and roofline.
One of my all time favorite cars was my '04 Scion Xb which had a very tall roofline and upright seating, unfortunately the only thing like it now might be the Nissan NV-200, I'd like a eNV-200 like they have in Europe but for whatever reason Nissan seems reluctant to release it here in North America some have been speculating that with the introduction of larger battery packs that we might finally get it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

jjeff said:

I will certainly look at one but it was my belief, mostly from reading on MNL that the Bolt was smaller than the Leaf :? my biggest turn off in a car is when the distance between the seat top and inside lip of the roof(door jam) is too short so as I can't back into the seat without hitting my head. I dislike having to crawl into the car head first and many cars like to have the sleek/low roofline and unless the seat is very low to the ground(which I also dislike) it means a short distance between the seat and roofline.
One of my all time favorite cars was my '04 Scion Xb which had a very tall roofline and upright seating, unfortunately the only thing like it now might be the Nissan NV-200, I'd like a eNV-200 like they have in Europe but for whatever reason Nissan seems reluctant to release it here in North America some have been speculating that with the introduction of larger battery packs that we might finally get it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

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ummm, you might want to see one in person first. they aren't really smaller, just different proportions of space assigned to passengers/cargo.

from most reports, current owners are reporting high seating positions and very good head room in front seats, both of which I think would favor you. The one glaring thing is cargo space in hatch (16.9 cu feet) verses the LEAF's 23.6 cu feet

For grinn's inquired the Lease equivalent w/o any negotiating. thoughts?

$0 down, $276 per month (inc all fees/taxes)
36 mos
12k miles/yr

vehicle price $29380
+fees tax = $31,595

lease cash 11,800 (inc 1k leaf loyalty)
residual $10,633

Thanks.

I'd go with the lease offer, as that lets you avoid buying the car if it turns out to be inadequate for your needs, but has a nice low residual if you do want to keep it.

I'm thinking the lease is the better way for numerous reasons. 1) no need to wait 14 months to file taxes for the 7500 credit 2)By the time the lease is up, the BEV market will significantly transform and the value of the Leaf will drop like a rock.

Phatcat73 said:

By the time the lease is up, the BEV market will significantly transform and the value of the Leaf will drop like a rock.

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Perhaps. Perhaps not. That is the advantage of a lease. You get to find out what happened to the market before you make a decision regarding turn back vs buy. Suppose at the end of your lease, all new EVs have a range over 200 miles and an OTD price over $40K. And who knows if the federal tax credit will still be around then. Perhaps an SV30 Leaf will look pretty good at a price around $10K. And if the used market is down, it is likely that NMAC will offer you the vehicle at well below $10K. If the vehicle meets your needs and you have kept it in good condition, it may seem like an attractive choice when the time comes.

Phatcat73 said:

For grinn's inquired the Lease equivalent w/o any negotiating. thoughts?

$0 down, $276 per month (inc all fees/taxes)
36 mos
12k miles/yr

vehicle price $29380
+fees tax = $31,595

lease cash 11,800 (inc 1k leaf loyalty)
residual $10,633

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$276 * 36 = $9,936 + $10,633 = $20,500 approximately.

Previously you talked about a net cost to you after tax credit of $17,500.

Is the option to give back the car at lease end worth $3,000 to you? You'll only come out ahead leasing if the actual market value of the Leaf in 3 years is $7,600 or less.

Cheers, Wayne

Phatcat73 said:

For grinn's inquired the Lease equivalent w/o any negotiating. thoughts?

$0 down, $276 per month (inc all fees/taxes)
36 mos
12k miles/yr

vehicle price $29380
+fees tax = $31,595

lease cash 11,800 (inc 1k leaf loyalty)
residual $10,633

Thanks.

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what is dealer discount from MSRP? hard to evaluate your deal when we don't know what you are getting