Future EV incentives

Cash incentives are nice, but won't last forever.
Not everyone has HOV lanes.
But lots of people like to drive fast, even if it comes with a range hit, which will be mitigated as ranges increase.
Eliminating speed limits for BEVs could be a lasting and universal incentive.
Maybe "left lane for BEVs only" as well.
Add in "fossil fuel vehicle speed limit 55, strictly enforced".
If not practical, may serve as a psychological driver for adoption.

DNAinaGoodWay said:

Cash incentives are nice, but won't last forever.
Not everyone has HOV lanes.
But lots of people like to drive fast, even if it comes with a range hit, which will be mitigated as ranges increase.
Eliminating speed limits for BEVs could be a lasting and universal incentive.
Maybe "left lane for BEVs only" as well.
Add in "fossil fuel vehicle speed limit 55, strictly enforced".
If not practical, may serve as a psychological driver for adoption.

Click to expand...

That can be a double edged sword. Most passenger car tires are not really up to sustained use at high speeds. Even the S, T, H and most other tires for roadway vehicles are only rated for high speed use for 10 minutes at a moderate ambient temperature before they reach unacceptable operating temperatures or the potential point of failure. The moment the tire sustains any damage whatsoever it loses its high speed rating especially if it has been plugged.

The unlimited speed lane would need to be separated from the main roadway by physical safety barriers to make it safe for the other motorists in the speed regulated lanes which would be quite costly to initially construct and then need more costly maintenance afterwards. People being what they are, there would likely need to be inspections to qualify the car and the driver for using the high speed lanes. Tires over 4 years old, bad alignments, odd tire wear patterns, brake systems, wheel bearings, shock absorber's, suspension bushings and joints would all need more scrutiny and mandated inspection with set standards to ensure only vehicles that are up to the task are driven in the unlimited speed lanes. Insurance companies would probably have a stroke or push that you have an unlimited speed lane rider on your policy.

Interesting concept but would require some serious thought and planning before implementing.

No argument from me. I usually start with a rough idea.
How about, BEV limit 80, ICE 55?
80 seems to be cruising speed around here.

Will all be moot when we've all transitioned to autonomous drive anyway.
Just tossing the idea out there.
One more wedge to cleave us off of gas.

It could get interesting. Still not enough 400 volt quick charge stations around here though to make driving to say Disney a reality with the Leaf.

I am not too sure about autonomous when they are still having issues with hackers breaking into the current crop of internet connected vehicles control systems and causing traffic accidents.

Just in the news this morning was a Tesla on AutoPilot hitting a bus in Germany.

Encouraging people to waste energy is foolish. Regardless of ev or gasser.

No car is designed to drive much over 65mph at any semblance of efficiency.

Most cars are death traps above 45mph, even top rated safety picks.
Nobody wants to hear it but colliding at more than 45 gives you about a 50/50 chance of death.

Our state recently raised speed limits this last year to get more road tax and since the change from 60/65 to 70ish highway deaths have increased by 35% on the roadways with the higher limits.

State says that there are dramatically more elderly and young drivers on the road this year and that is why.
They also listed a plan to increase speed limits on more primary and secondary roads in the future.

No argument with that either.
That's the beauty of it. With a BEV, you're less likely to speed even if permitted, just to preserve range. But it might give someone incentive to switch from ICE.
70-80 on the highway is no big deal.

There's already a backlash about the perks we get now, including solo carpool lane access and government subsidizing our "toys." Such a proposal will lead to even more hostility towards plug-ins.

Nuts!

It's a start. Kick ICE out of the HOV lanes. EV only.

UK’s first EV-only road to be built next year - Autocar
https://apple.news/AR5VE4JS9RsSF-oqfwd_9sw

All other considerations aside, considering how mediocre EV tires are in traction and braking in general, this sounds like a really bad idea!

DNAinaGoodWay said:

How about, BEV limit 80, ICE 55?

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rmay635703 said:

No car is designed to drive much over 65mph at any semblance of efficiency.

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This is wrong. Diesels can do wonders. BMW 5-series diesel with 8-speed automatic.
55mph = 4,5l/100km 52mpg (1hour average)
75mph = 6,0l/100km 39mpg (3hour average)
130mph=10l/100km 23,5mpg (2hour average)

I did one trip longer than 2000 miles.
Even I was surprised. But there is an explanation: 3000rpm@130mph.
Same thing with EV and we see results much worse than that. EV efficiency goes down dramatically.
Leaf at 90mph is a catastrophe. The fact that motor spins at 10200rpm is not the explanation.

Also things said about tires is incorrect. Most tires are 90mph capable, even studded.

Efficiency and tires are beside the point. The goal is to motivate adoption. Imagine your HOV lanes without ICE. Better flow? Higher EV sales?

DNAinaGoodWay said:

It's a start. Kick ICE out of the HOV lanes. EV only.

UK’s first EV-only road to be built next year - Autocar
https://apple.news/AR5VE4JS9RsSF-oqfwd_9sw

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Now if they put a power slot in each lane so we don't consume any battery power that would be grand. How about Plugless In-Motion Charging?

UK started testing on this last year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/off-road-trials-for-electric-highways-technology

Sounds like a long shot to me, but I'll run it by my legislators anyway.

EV commuters would get $250 a month under Ohio senator's new bill - Autoblog
https://apple.news/ABMq7mCeHS4ub5Q00zL42Bw

arnis said:

rmay635703 said:

No car is designed to drive much over 65mph at any semblance of efficiency.

Click to expand...

This is wrong. Diesels can do wonders. BMW 5-series diesel with 8-speed automatic.
55mph = 4,5l/100km 52mpg (1hour average)
75mph = 6,0l/100km 39mpg (3hour average)
130mph=10l/100km 23,5mpg (2hour average)

I did one trip longer than 2000 miles.
Even I was surprised. But there is an explanation: 3000rpm@130mph.
Same thing with EV and we see results much worse than that. EV efficiency goes down dramatically.
Leaf at 90mph is a catastrophe. The fact that motor spins at 10200rpm is not the explanation.

Also things said about tires is incorrect. Most tires are 90mph capable, even studded.

Click to expand...

My Diesel is OHC and rated for 5,400 rpm and does quite well at higher speeds 55/60 mph getting in the 50 mpg range however a pushrod diesel with a 3,600 rpm red line will need additional gears to take advantage of being over driven to maintain efficiency at higher speeds. Still regardless of the fuel its wind resistance that you have to deal with at speeds over 55 mph which anyone who has ridden a motorcycle without full fairings on it will be able to attest to. Seeing a number on a gauge or piece of paper is one thing but sitting in the saddle and feeling the wind pressure on your chest and the additional strain on your arms and neck really drives home the dynamics of speed. Once you push past 55/60 mph you need much more power to gain and maintain each additional mph then you did below that speed. I run a scan gauge on my ICE vehicles and the PWR gauge tells that story quite nicely as you can easily observe the engine power levels and fuel consumption rates increasing more rapidly when you going over 55/60 mph.

The European standard is that tires must survive a laboratory test on a loading machine at the stated speed for 30 minutes at 100 degrees ambient while in the US the last I checked it was only for a 10 minute duration at around a 78 degree ambient temperature. After a tire is repaired in any way it looses its high speed rating. Once a tire is over 5 years old then you can forget about any speed ratings too. The majority of car tires sold in the US the last I checked were still 75 mph tires (the ever popular load range B IIRC). Regardless even if your tire is rated at 90 its only for up to 30 minutes at temperatures below 100 degrees European or potentially 10 minutes US. Here where roadway temps hover at over 100 degrees most of the year we are one of the tread separation and blowout capitals of the US and a 90 mph tire even when new is barely adequate for the 70/75 mph expressways around here.

All I wanted to tell is that DIESEL engine with excellent gearbox is able to beat everything else. Including electric.
ICE efficiency is very fluctuating thing. And sweet spot is at much greater speeds in some scenarios.
Additional wind resistance (4x more at 2x speed?) will result only in 2x fuel consumption. Therefore efficiency doubles.

Buy EU tires. It is not a problem for everybody that US tire companies are that bad. Didn't know that.

arnis said:

All I wanted to tell is that DIESEL engine with excellent gearbox is able to beat everything else.

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Really? After you correct for the fact that diesel fuel has more energy per gallon than gasoline? So mpg for diesel needs to be multiplied by 88% to compare to mpg for gasoline. I.e. if a Prius gets 50 mpg gasoline then a diesel car needs to get 50/0.88 = 57 mpg diesel to be be more efficient than the Prius.

arnis said:

Including electric.

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Not very likely. Running your diesel through a fuel cell to charge an aerodynamic electric vehicle will be more efficient than driving a diesel car.

Cheers, Wayne

Fuel prices are not according to energy density. Also refinement is easier for diesel, not gasoline.
That means less pollution during diesel production. Even more if compared with energy content.
We compare apples to apples. We do not compare 5-series with Prius. Different size, different comfort.

Don't forget that I was talking about cars at speeds above 65mph.

No car is designed to drive much over 65mph at any semblance of efficiency.

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It was a reply for that.

And now a chart:
Add new data:
55mph = 52mpg (1hour average)
75mph = 39mpg (3hour average)
130mph= 23,5mpg (2hour average)

Running your diesel through a fuel cell to charge an aerodynamic electric vehicle will be more efficient than driving a diesel car.

Click to expand...

Bull-poop. All vehicles would run on those fuel cells if that would be the case.

arnis said:

And now a chart:

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Are your charted numbers corrected for the fact that a gallon of gas has only 88% of the energy content of a gallon of diesel? If not, you're comparing apples to oranges, where 1 apple = 88% of 1 orange.

arnis said:

Bull-poop. All vehicles would run on those fuel cells if that would be the case.

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Sadly the fuel cells are too expensive. It would be interesting to compare the efficiency of a mechanical diesel generator charging an electric car to a diesel engine car.

Cheers, Wayne