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WyrTwister

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
89
Received my first full 30 day electric bill since started charging the 2012 Nissan Leaf on a regular basis ( Level 2 ) .

Comparing it to same time period 2015 , the 2016 bill is about $ 80 something higher . Of course , this can vary some what according to Outside Air Temperature and how much I run the A/C .

But bottom line , I am somewhat disappointed . We have been running our 2015 Chevy Sonic , mostly in town , on roughly $ 2 gasoline . Typically we would fill it up for less than $ 20 a week .

This means , it appears , it is costing slightly more to run the Leaf on electricity than compared to the Sonic on gasoline .

I realize , if gas goes up & I expect it to sooner or latter , those numbers will change .

God bless
Wyr
 
Where are you Wyr?

Where I am electricity is flat rate around 10 cents per kWh.
So LEAF charging ends up being around 3 1/2 cents per mile.

But some utilities on the west coast have Tiered plans.

If LEAF use pushed you into a higher Tier it can be very costly.
 
Where do you live and how many miles/month do you drive? That just doesn't make sense unless you're paying a lot for electricity.
I drive ~800 miles/month on ~$20 of juice @L2.
 
Electrical Cost Per
Date KWH Cost KWH
2016-08-01 2797 $285.37 $0.10
2016-07-01 1404 $147.10 $0.10
2016-06-01 90 $97.09 $0.11
2016-05-01 766 $74.64 $0.10
2016-04-01 815 $78.92 $0.10
2016-03-01 806 $78.12 $0.10
2016-02-01 758 $73.97 $0.10
2016-01-01 925 $100.09 $0.11
2015-12-01 735 $81.14 $0.11
2015-11-01 871 $94.70 $0.11
2015-10-01 1183 $125.85 $0.11
2015-09-01 1425 $167.88 $0.12
2015-08-01 1785 $204.29 $0.11

$285.37 “ - $204.29 “ = $81.08

Not sure how many miles we are driving per month ?

The ICE Chevy Sonic gets 24 - 26 mpg city and 34 + mpg highway . Gasoline $ 2 per gallon + -

God bless
Wyr
 
WyrTwister said:
Comparing it to same time period 2015 , the 2016 bill is about $ 80 something higher . Of course , this can vary some what according to Outside Air Temperature and how much I run the A/C .

But bottom line , I am somewhat disappointed . We have been running our 2015 Chevy Sonic , mostly in town , on roughly $ 2 gasoline . Typically we would fill it up for less than $ 20 a week .

This means , it appears , it is costing slightly more to run the Leaf on electricity than compared to the Sonic on gasoline .

God bless
Wyr
Click to expand...

It is a pretty simple mathematical investigation, based on the $0.10 / kwh in the latest bill by Wyr posted above.

The Sonic, $2 to go 30 miles. $20/week * 4.5 weeks / month = $90 / month for gasoline, or 45 gallons of fuel going 1350 miles. This is still a fairly realistic estimate of distance traveled per month, as I've been doing around 1250 miles per month or so.

(I'd be surprised too if the Sonic, "mostly in town" is getting such excellent mileage, as the worst time for an ICE engine is warming up and short trips, whereas the LEAF is essentially equally efficient both on short or long trips.)

The LEAF, $0.10 / kwh, a fairly realistic estimate is 4 miles per kwh. Going 1350 miles at 4 miles per kwh gives 337.5 kwh, or $33.75 per month, a savings of $56.25 per month. Or realistically, the LEAF is costing approximately 1/3 (33%) for fuel on a per mile basis.
 
If we never left town in the Sonic , it rarely , if ever , cost more than $ 20 a week for gas . But we had several long trips , last year . So we put close to 16,000 miles , total on the Leaf . I am guessing some where around 10,000 miles per year for the Leaf .

The electric data I posted is the most accurate I have . The electric utility is owned and operated by our city .

Does my cost reflect my electric usage 100 % ? Or also the revenue desired by the city ? How often do they actually read the meter ? I have seen meters which I doubt were ever read .

Same with water meters . ( Although we had a massively costly water leak last year . When we replaced the water line from the alley / meter to the house , water bill plummeted . )

God bless
Wyr
 
Mileage I posted for the Sonic is biased on its own Guess O Meter on the dash display . I have gotten too lazy to do them math , myself , biased on gallons per fill up & miles traveled .

Mileage is less in the summer running A/C . I seem to get better MPG numbers than my wife . But she drives it more often than I do . ( Same with the Leaf. )

God bless
Wyr
 
WyrTwister said:
The electric data I posted is the most accurate I have . The electric utility is owned and operated by our city .

Does my cost reflect my electric usage 100 % ? Or also the revenue desired by the city ? How often do they actually read the meter ? I have seen meters which I doubt were ever read .

God bless
Wyr
Click to expand...

The electric utility here is also owned and operated by the city, and I live in the county. They "read" the smartmeters on an intermittent basis throughout the month, I read my meter every day. It is important to check because if they estimate, it is possible to be bumped into another higher rate tier, or as occurs when meters are read up to 34 days instead of 30 days.

My electric cost reflects my electric usage 100%, plus an additional 10% surcharge which goes toward revenue desired by the city to help pay resident's property tax, and the scandals and wasteful spending of that city's commissioners.

But yes, there was something I could do about it, and I installed 4.7kw of PV solar, and hopefully at some point I'll install another 9 kw of so and reduce their payments to almost $0.
 
WyrTwister said:
The electric data I posted is the most accurate I have . The electric utility is owned and operated by our city .
Click to expand...
Your earlier post makes it seem like you're calculating the cost to drive your EV per month by comparing utility bills for the same month in different years, presumably one "with" and one "without" the EV. Also presumably, this is an attempt to account for variations in electrically-operated heating/cooling. But August is the only month for which you show two sets of data; why bother listing all the others? Looking at those other months, though, it's apparent that there's a huge seasonal variation, and yet your data don't mention temperatures for each month. Another obvious problem is that there's no mention of the miles driven. Still another (again, given that only one "before and after" month is given) is the question of whether the EV in use for all the days of that one month? Overall, it seems a pretty poor way to gauge your EV's operating costs.

If your EV is a LEAF (can't quite tell), then reset its miles/kWh statistics, and use the car for awhile (a week, say) in what you consider a "typical way", Then divide your average monthly driving distance in miles by the miles/kWh figure the car comes up with to get the energy the car spends from its battery per month. Divide that by an estimate of the charging efficiency of whatever your arrangements are (0.85 is a good guess for home L2 charging) to get the car's monthly utility consumption. Multiply that answer by the utility's cost per kWh to get the monthly driving cost in dollars. There are lots of possible error sources here too, such as "how accurate are the LEAF's miles/kWh measurements, anyway?", but they're a lot better than your approach if yours is telling you an EV on 11 cent/kWh power has a higher running cost than an even-remotely-similar ICE.
 
We have had the 2012 Leaf for a little over 1 month . So I only compared one month in 2016 to 2015 .

I reset the trip odometer shortly after we took delivery of the Leaf .

Currently showing 1049 miles . 4.1 miles / kw .

Sorry , these are the only numbers I have .

Our utility does not offer different rates for different times of day .

Charged 1 time at home Level 1 120 VAC . The rest , Level 2 240 VAC .

Taking baby steps here .

God bless
Wyr
 
For what it is or is not worth , the ICE Sonic is smaller & probably lighter than the Leaf .

Wifey is driving with the windows down , in the mornings , to conserve battery ( A/C off ) .

Driving in ECO mode to stretch the battery .

By the way , Leaf Spy on my Android phone says my OBDII Bluetooth adapter does not work on the Leaf . Needs 1.5 . Mu OBDII Bluetooth is V2.0 or something like that . Just ordered another one that is suppose to be V 1.5 .

God bless
Wyr
 
TimLee said:
Where are you Wyr?

Where I am electricity is flat rate around 10 cents per kWh.
So LEAF charging ends up being around 3 1/2 cents per mile.

But some utilities on the west coast have Tiered plans.

If LEAF use pushed you into a higher Tier it can be very costly.
Click to expand...


South Central USA . I called our city owned and operated ( BOO! ) electrical utility & they did not offer different rates based on time of day .

God bless
Wyr
 
LeftieBiker said:
Wifey is driving with the windows down , in the mornings , to conserve battery ( A/C off ) .
Click to expand...

That actually increases drag. Windows up and ventilation blower on is the way to go.
Click to expand...

I suspect the drag depends on speed . Since she is mostly driving in town , she comes out ahead . And around here , ventilation only does not cut it in the summer . :-(

God bless
Wyr
 
WyrTwister said:
LeftieBiker said:
Wifey is driving with the windows down , in the mornings , to conserve battery ( A/C off ) .
Click to expand...

That actually increases drag. Windows up and ventilation blower on is the way to go.
Click to expand...

I suspect the drag depends on speed . Since she is mostly driving in town , she comes out ahead . And around here , ventilation only does not cut it in the summer . :-(

God bless
Wyr
Click to expand...
 
TimLee said:
Where are you Wyr?

Where I am electricity is flat rate around 10 cents per kWh.
So LEAF charging ends up being around 3 1/2 cents per mile.

But some utilities on the west coast have Tiered plans.

If LEAF use pushed you into a higher Tier it can be very costly.
Click to expand...
Yep. I live in Pacific Gouge and Extort land.

See page 1 of http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf. I'm on E-6. See page 2 of http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-6.pdf.

I'm in area X, Code B (quantities at https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/save-energy-money/help-paying-your-bill/longer-term-assistance/medical-condition-related/medical-baseline-allowance/understanding-baseline-quantities.page). So, my baseline in "summer" is 303 kWh/month for a 30 day billing month and 327 kWh/month for "winter". You and the OP have it quite good in terms of rates compared to those of us in PG&E land.
 
I read hydroelectric is potentially the cheapest electric power . Is PG&E hydro ?

Ours is mostly coal & natural gas . Probably some wind . Not much solar .

God bless
Wyr
 
WyrTwister said:
I read hydroelectric is potentially the cheapest electric power . Is PG&E hydro ?

Ours is mostly coal & natural gas . Probably some wind . Not much solar .
Click to expand...
Not much. See https://oaspub.epa.gov/powpro/ept_pack.charts and put in 95136 zip code (not my zip but the same utility), then select PG&E. It says 12.7% hydro for me.
 
WyrTwister said:
We have had the 2012 Leaf for a little over 1 month . So I only compared one month in 2016 to 2015 .

I reset the trip odometer shortly after we took delivery of the Leaf .

Currently showing 1049 miles . 4.1 miles / kw .

Sorry , these are the only numbers I have .

Our utility does not offer different rates for different times of day .

Charged 1 time at home Level 1 120 VAC . The rest , Level 2 240 VAC .

Taking baby steps here .

God bless
Wyr
Click to expand...

Then lets work with the numbers you have.

1049 miles divided by 4.1 miles per kwh equals 255.85 kwh used.

Account for loss from charging (85% efficient) 255.85 divided .85 equals 301 kwh used.

301 kwh times stated .10 rate equals $30.10 for Leaf electricity use.


This has been a hot summer across the whole country. Your method of comparing last year to this year combines the added cost from high temperatures in with the cost of driving the leaf. Even with a 30% margin for error, the cost of driving the Leaf is about half of what you determined by comparing yearly power bills.
 
I hope you are correct . :)

As far as the electrical consumption for the home , we have mini split A/C - heat pumps for 2 rooms . Window shakers for 3 rooms ( including the guest bedroom ) .

Amount the guest bedroom A/C is used depends on if it is occupied or not , at any given time . Some times grand kiss may be staying over . Or sometimes adult guests / cousins from out of town .

And , the older I get , the more I run the A/C or the heat .

God bless
Wyr
 

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