Leaf or Volt as first car?

Hey all,

I've been following this forum since I was about 15, when I seriously started believing in the EV Revolution. Since I'll be going away to college in less than a year, I have been debating in my head whether or not to get an '11-'15 Chevy Volt or a '11-15 Nissan Leaf, used of course. I have taken into consideration the decreased battery life and heat problems that might arise from living in the LA basin and decreased flexibility of having an all electric vehicle, but I hate the thought of having to pay for gas, no matter how long the time in between fill-ups.

I understand the inevitable bias that will come from posting on this forum instead of the Chevy Volt forums, but am leaning toward the Leaf for the lower price initially. Will love to hear your thoughts and please ask questions if you have any

I would advise that you consider range in your decision. The LEAF is perfect for me, but I rarely drive more than 50 miles in a day. When I am going to drive further, I have access to a second vehicle. Also, where will you be living (dorm?), will you have the ability to charge at will? Best of luck.

I will most likely be living on campus for the first year or two and probably drive less than 30 miles a day and the college seems to have many accessible charging points according to Plugshare. But I am concerned about longer trips, such as visiting my parents, which is 90-100 miles away from the campus. There's quick chargers not far off of the freeway, but the Volt seems like it would be easier for those unplanned trips that may come up.

I really do not know the used retail values of the Leaf or the Volt, however if I had it to do over again I would probably bought a Volt.
Don't get me wrong, the Leaf has been a fine car for me. Here on the Big Island of Hawaii, the Leaf has been a good car. Because of my PV array, I can drive it and it does not cost me a thing. In over 5 years I have not done anything to it other than one cabin filter, one set of wiper blades and tire rotations every 5000 mi.
The heater (which is not needed here) is not an issue. The AC in the leaf is the best one of the 4 cars I own. If you are not worried about the really lousy heater and the crappy resale value then the Leaf might be good. But if you want to take longer trips the Volt would be the way to go.
Good luck.

Spectre12 said:

I will most likely be living on campus for the first year or two and probably drive less than 30 miles a day and the college seems to have many accessible charging points according to Plugshare. But I am concerned about longer trips, such as visiting my parents, which is 90-100 miles away from the campus. There's quick chargers not far off of the freeway, but the Volt seems like it would be easier for those unplanned trips that may come up.

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Then, obviously, you plan to use the quick chargers, make sure you get a Leaf w/the CHAdeMO inlet.

Hopefully the charging stations you can use will be reasonably priced and not more than paying for gasoline. And, hopefully they're convenient for you to use, instead of wasting a lot of time.

If you're going to buy used, either look for a Leaf (probably '11 or '12 or early build '13 (before 4/2013 build month)) where it's down to 9 capacity bars and there's plenty of the 5 year/60K capacity warranty left (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192) so that you can get a free replacement pack
OR
get a '13+ Leaf with build month of 4/2013 or later. Those seem to have better batteries. Obviously, check out the Leaf w/Leaf Spy (mainly AHr, SOH and Hx values besides its odometer value being within a mile of the what car's display says).

downeykp said:

I really do not know the used retail values of the Leaf or the Volt, however if I had it to do over again I would probably bought a Volt.

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Leaf resale value is crap but good for used car buyers. I have pointers to my saga of buying used at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=432095#p432095. I drive one now. Nissan franchise dealers tend to have big markups over auction prices. Probably best to avoid those unless you want a CPO car.

Example wholesale auction values:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=462635#p462635
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=462637#p462637

I would think of making sure a Leaf had Quick Charge and somewhere to charge partway between your parents home. If you can say yes to both, sounds like a Leaf in your future.

Frankly, if I were just starting out and selecting my ONLY vehicle, I would want something that allowed long-distance travel: Volt.

BTW, are you sure you will be able to charge for free on campus? If not, you may find the cost of fueling the LEAF to be somewhat unattractive.

If those trips to your parents' house will be frequent, consider a used Prius PHEV - aka "Prius Plugin'' or "PIP". The EV range is only 10-15 miles (maybe a little more on-campus), but the hybrid fuel economy is far superior to the Volt's (60MPG with no charge vs 40 or so for the Gen I Volt), as is the storage space. The Volt is the better car for lots of EV trips over 10 miles, while the Prius PHEV is better for regular 90+ mile drives and for hauling things or people.

RegGuheert said:

Frankly, if I were just starting out and selecting my ONLY vehicle, I would want something that allowed long-distance travel: Volt.

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+1, I love my Leaf but also have a Prius as a backup. If I only had one vehicle I'd want it to be like the Volt. Note personally I'd probably never own a Volt because it's too cramped and I just didn't like the tight cockpit area, that and the older ones only held 4 people and required premium fuel. I really seriously looked at the Volt in '14 before getting the Leaf but it just wasn't my kind of car. I also looked at the i3 but had it had similar deal breakers as the Volt. Not a lot of choices(for sure outside of CA and NY) for electric type of vehicles

I'd suggest a Prius but it sounds like you have a aversion to burning gas(and I understand that) but truthfully in the true economic sense I'd bet something like a 5-10 year old Prius would be cheaper in the long run for you even considering gas, but I know it's not always whats cheaper, otherwise I'd probably not of ended up with my Leaf

Living in CA you may have access to a used Prius PIP, anywhere in the midwest that was not an option for me as they were never sold here. Apparently the new PIP is supposed to be a real nationwide car, I'll probably look at it but sure wish it had a larger battery, similar to the Volt. I'd pay more for the larger battery but I really doubt they'll ever offer that kind of option

One thing the OP didn't mention is what their budget was ... this should narrow down your choices quite a bit.

For me, if it was to be my only car; if 99% of the time the range would be within what a used LEAF can cover easily, I would get that but the other 1% you would either have to possibly borrow a friends car or rent one (being under 25 perhaps not such an easy thing to do).

As others have mentioned, if local charging access is indeed 'free' that's another advantage for the LEAF; I've been using Nissan's NCTC card which is free but only for 90 days; otherwise a QC session I think is like $9.95 -- remember that's only about an 80% charge so about .12 cents/mile; that's pretty expensive when compared to a car that gets 30 MPG with gas at $2.20/gal or .073 cents/mile --- free charging is more of an advantage for the LEAF but if daily miles are say 30 to 40 the Volt would still be 'free' most times.

Getting a Volt would mean no need to borrow another car or rent one; especially if its a last minute long distance trip -- something to consider as well.

Ah, college. Looking back, if it was me, I'd go for the Volt. I did drive a lot then, usual schedule plus road trips and such. It would be nice to have the option to do that without having to sweat finding a car, working chargers, or a ride. However, I'd have to say that the Leaf gets more comments/conversations with women than any other car I have owned. Probably because it is cute and stands out from other cars. Priorities.

I was leaning towards a used Volt prior to getting the Leaf, but the Leaf was such a good deal (used) I figured it would be fun to try it out. The Leaf is much more open/airy (as already mentioned) than the Volt. The Volt to me feels sportier to sit in. I drove a preproduction Volt, and was impressed, but that was a long time ago. I haven't driven one since getting the Leaf, although I have sat in one to compare (it did feel cramped compared to Leaf, but would be very comfortable for my family).

The Leaf works for me now since I am in such a routine, I know I drive 50 miles per day, and it does it just fine. Sometimes I do miss the opportunity to just pick up and drive a couple hours, but I can take my wife's car if needed. When I was in high school, college, and first job, my schedule was not nearly as set. So, the Leaf would not have worked for me then. I really like the flexibility the Volt (or other plug in hybrid, C-max, Fusion...) offer compared to the Leaf, but I am enjoying the Leaf now.

Good luck in your decision, fun times ahead!

Assuming that charging is not going to be a problem, one thing that could alleviate range anxiety is the availability of rental cars/car sharing for that long-distance trip. Many college campuses have car sharing programs.

I was planning to say Volt absolutely since it would be your only car. However, now that I remember back to college, I changed my mind. Money was VERY tight (my typical commute was 5 mi with a used, 10 yo bicycle, if really pouring down rain, then a $0.20 bus token, or if out of tokens, a quarter). I lived far away from campus for the lower rent, turned the heat down to 40 F (near Canadian border), received garden fruits/vegetables from relatives, etc., but it was still nearly everything that I made from my part-time job. Money choices were literally in the $1 range, splitting pizza with friends, and going out was non-existent. I STILL remember the day we bought a couple of lottery tickets instead of ice creme for that week's treat (no we didn't win, and to this day it is the only time I've ever bought any).

So..... all that to say: Get the 2011 Leaf for $6000 with QC (wait until you find the right one at this price). Save the extra $8000-$10,000 that the Volt would cost. Drive slow, figure out ways to travel with the existing/future charging network, don't worry about the "extra" time it will take on those few trips home or away from school. We used to rideshare using a bulletin board, now you can Uber with a smartphone if you need. You're young and will have some great (mis)-adventures with charging the Leaf. You'll meet great people and it will influence you the rest of your life.

The point is that I was able to scrimp and save in the early years, which greatly influenced my ability to enjoy life more than money. I saved for my 1st EV starting in 1990 (I didn't realize it would take 21 years to get one) and was able to pay the full MSRP in cash for a new 2011 Leaf. Five years later, it looks like a poor financial decision since I've ONLY saved about $7000 on gas (it may take another 10 years to break even due to the lower gasoline prices) but the enjoyment of driving an EV instead of my 1990 gasser makes up for it. So, buy the Leaf, enjoy it, save the extra money, put it in the stock market (but ONLY after you have a 6 mo emergency buffer built up), and someday you'll have a Tesla (or whatever will be the future coolest ride).

As a sole car in college that can do everything, will be usable for years beyond it, will hold its resale value better, and allow you to use whichever 'fuel' is cheapest/most available, a Volt unquestionably. Also see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=713&p=467438#p467438

Or, go with a used Prius for trips if renting/sharing isn't an option, and ride a bike/take transit for your 'commute' if those are reasonable options. You say you're in the L.A. basin, so weather shouldn't be an issue - what kind of routine daily distances will you be traveling, and what are your transportation options?

Wow. You guys have given me a ton of advice and ideas that I really appreciate and will be sure to take into consideration. I have thought about the Prius Plug-In as an alternative to both, but the electric range is way too short at around 11 miles of blended driving.

So..... all that to say: Get the 2011 Leaf for $6000 with QC (wait until you find the right one at this price). Save the extra $8000-$10,000 that the Volt would cost.

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That is exactly what I was thinking, and if I can find a Leaf that still has the battery capacity warranty it will just be icing on the cake.

Assuming that charging is not going to be a problem, one thing that could alleviate range anxiety is the availability of rental cars/car sharing for that long-distance trip. Many college campuses have car sharing programs.

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I don't think charging will be that big of a problem here in SoCal, but I am worried that the Leaf battery won't make the 4 years through college with usable range. That's the main reason I am considering the Volt. After going through those forums, there hasn't been a mention of decreased battery life or even replacement battery packs.

Obviously, check out the Leaf w/Leaf Spy (mainly AHr, SOH and Hx values besides its odometer value being within a mile of the what car's display says).

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Most definitely. In a few months when I will start narrowing down the search and visiting dealerships, I will definitely order an OBD II dongle on Amazon.

Leaf resale value is crap but good for used car buyers. I have pointers to my saga of buying used at viewtopic.php?p=432095#p432095. I drive one now. Nissan franchise dealers tend to have big markups over auction prices. Probably best to avoid those unless you want a CPO car.

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Most of the '11-'15 Leafs run from $9,000-$15,000 depending on year and trim near me. I'm currently watching a '13 SV with the LED+Quick Charge Package with around 20,000 miles for $11,999.

Thinking back to my college days, I was the only one in my group of friends with a car. So I was the one who enabled trips to Montreal and Ottawa. Or ski trips into the Adirondacks. Or countless other trips we took. Having a car was a huge social boost for me. From that angle, I would highly recommend the Volt. Who knows when you and a group of friends want to take a trip to San Diego. Or further into Mexico. Or up to Vegas. Or Yosemite.

Just my two cents to toss on the pile.

av8or said:

Ah, college. Looking back, if it was me, I'd go for the Volt.
...
Good luck in your decision, fun times ahead!

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Yes, nostalgia, the used, 6-year-old at the time in 1978, 1972 Pontiac Catalina 400 4bbl, a boat, it could fly at 105 mph (or so I've heard ) but of course the downside was the gasoline it consumed. I was able to get 19 mpg on the long country highways going 52 mph, with the group I was taking back home (crushed into the car for maximum financial gain) the 300 miles complaining every mile of the way. Ran out of gas once, in the middle of nowhere for a 15 mile radius, except for the gas station 100 yards away. :shock: Lots of fun!! I did supplement the Pontiac with a Honda 360, loved that bike, and then a Honda Rebel 250, at 100 mpg that I loved even more and eventually chalked up 90K miles on. The amount of money I saved with those motorcycles, not just gas but also insurance, turned out to be a huge boost.

Now, of course, things have changed, and gasoline consumption is viewed differently. Read "The Oil Kings" for some interesting information. And riding a motorcycle with all the road rage and distracted cell phone drivers is highly questionable.

I would definitely pick a LEAF over a Volt. One reason not mentioned is engine maintenance, which you have to do oil changes etc. on the Volt, and eventually even when young spending time under a car gets old. I think people have agreed that the used LEAF is much more reasonable than a used Volt, and for a college person, $ is a main factor. And, if you stop along the way to get a few quick charges, ultimately the time won't matter, as you can study or read.

I have a 5-capacity bar LEAF, and still have no hesitation going on a 60 mile round trip with a QC halfway. A short while ago, when there were 6 capacity bars, I went on an unplanned 100 mile round trip (thought it was about 70), which was an adventure as the last Nissan dealership with a QC that I stopped at was technically closed, but I was able to charge, and without that I don't think I would have made it home. I really can't see being in college and going more than 30 or 40 miles from the campus very often, especially if it is in a big city.

I alternated between having no car at all, and hitchhiking 180 miles each way to Ithaca (uphill both ways, and it really did snow a lot that Winter) and having an old Volvo or two on the road, or, occasionally, borrowing a car. I was visiting slash living with my GF at Cornell while ostensibly living in a house back here, so I actually had to make that trip a lot. Having a reliable car sure beat relying on the kindness of strangers...

Wow thanks for the help guys. You all have changed my mind about the Volt for now, and I'm instead looking at a Chevy Spark EV vs. a Nissan Leaf too. I realized that living near Los Angeles will allow me to go 100% electric and not really worry about finding a charging station if I needed it. So, thanks for all of your help guys, I really appreciate it.

Spectre12 said:

Wow thanks for the help guys. You all have changed my mind about the Volt for now, and I'm instead looking at a Chevy Spark EV vs. a Nissan Leaf too. I realized that living near Los Angeles will allow me to go 100% electric and not really worry about finding a charging station if I needed it. So, thanks for all of your help guys, I really appreciate it.

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Keep in mind that the Spark EV has a lame slow ~3.3 kW on-board charger (pulls about 3.1 kW from the "wall" on 208 volt L2 EVSEs, which is common commercial voltage) like the Gen 1 Volt. And DC fast charging is optional only supporting J1772 CCS aka SAE Combo aka Frankenplug vs. the more common CHAdeMO. Pics of plugs at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5012#p5012.

'13+ Leaf SV and SL (package doesn't matter) and '13+ S trim w/charge package have 6.x kW on-board chargers, so they'll charge more quickly on most public L2 EVSEs, since most are 30 amp, instead of maxing out at ~16 amps on the above GM vehicles.