Trailer batteries or gensets for Leafs?

Maybe it's a bit "out there" but does anyone know of realistic progress on either hydrocarbon electric power generators or extra battery power that comes in the form of a trailer for a Leaf? I see this intriguing idea from Germany, from a couple of years ago:

http://insideevs.com/nomadic-power-present-range-extender-trailer-wvideo/

and their web page seems to indicate recent progress (hope their batteries work better than their web page):

http://nomadicpower.de/first-nomads-ready-for-production/

Anyway, with the used Leafs being (somewhat, relatively) affordable but having such disappointing range, I have been looking at used PHEVs, but if somehow a trailer of some sort really was well-executed, I could at least consider it.

The Leaf is a Wonderful vehicle for local commuting. We use ours for 20 mile R/T daily commute, but end up using it for all our other local driving which averages about 200 additional miles each week, 300 mile total every week which is perfect for our lease. Any trip greater than 85 miles R/T we use an ICE. The problem with using an EV is the recharge time on longer trips, not the availability of electricity. Even if there were FREE charging stations all over the country it is not worth the cost in time to recharge vs. using an ICE. With a 10 minute rest stop ever couple of hours we still only fill up the ICE every other stop. With a 400+ mile range we could drive over 8 hours without a stop if our stomach and other organs would allow that. With a Leaf you would have to limit speed to 50 MPH and stop every hour or so for a 2 hour recharge. Even if you could find the DCQC every 50 miles the cost in time is not worth it, even with free charge. If you have to pay for the recharge then the cost of the electricity becomes more expensive than the gas. Forget the extra weight and drag of more batteries or a gen-set. It is cheaper to just plug in and except for some western desert areas you can always find a place to plug in.

Once again, the biggest drawback for using an EV for longer trips is the time spent recharging. If you only have one vehicle in your family, then Rent an ICE for longer trips. That is what we do for any trip over about 500 miles R/T.

well, there's always this:



rob

I prefer my version

With a 10 minute rest stop ever couple of hours we still only fill up the ICE every other stop. With a 400+ mile range we could drive over 8 hours without a stop if our stomach and other organs would allow that. With a Leaf you would have to limit speed to 50 MPH and stop every hour or so for a 2 hour recharge. Even if you could find the DCQC every 50 miles the cost in time is not worth it, even with free charge.

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You've mixed in some very rosy estimates for your gasoline car with some just nutty talk about the LEAF.

Granted, the LEAF was never intended to be a long-range car. But there is no reason to drive at 50 mph unless, for whatever reason, you can't make it to the next DC fast charger unless you drove 50 mph.

So, drive whatever speed you feel like and plan your charging stops accordingly. The LEAF can very easily charge up in 30 to 60 minutes.

There are lots of wrecked LEAFs out there. I would just get a LEAF battery pack and put it on a trailer.

Wire it in parallel with the existing battery, with all the considerations of safety considered an addressed.

If you don't know how to do this, I would not attempt it at all.

TonyWilliams said:

There are lots of wrecked LEAFs out there. I would just get a LEAF battery pack and put it on a trailer.

Wire it in parallel with the existing battery, with all the considerations of safety considered an addressed.

If you don't know how to do this, I would not attempt it at all.

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Yes, and in some parts of the country, we would want to add active cooling so it would last more than 2-3 years.

Evoforce said:

TonyWilliams said:

There are lots of wrecked LEAFs out there. I would just get a LEAF battery pack and put it on a trailer.

Wire it in parallel with the existing battery, with all the considerations of safety considered an addressed.

If you don't know how to do this, I would not attempt it at all.

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Yes, and in some parts of the country, we would want to add active cooling so it would last more than 2-3 years.

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Cooling would be pretty easy, since you already have all the power sitting right there in the battery. So, you need a cooling pump and some insulation around the battery. You can circulate cold air, or you could use cooled fluid in heat sinks, or both.

knightmb said:

I prefer my version

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I know this thread hadn't been used for a while, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

What genset is that? Is it 240V? Honda?

I've been thinking about doing something like that. Or getting a battery from a wrecked Leaf and wiring it in parallel. Or a pusher trailer.

I'm trying to decide what the best option would be for those long range trips in this part of the country where the public charging stations are too far apart. Everything has its pros and cons including owning a separate ICE vehicle or renting.

knightmb said:

I prefer my version

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So what do you do with the AC once it is inside the car. Send it to the stock onboard charger which has been hacked to operate while you drive?
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Too bad Nissan never made an official connection at the rear of the car for this. It would totally eliminate the objection that keeps the vast majority of normal (non early adopters) from buying an EV.
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Another long thread is here.
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http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23064
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Hey Knight, your left rear tire is bald in that photo...

sendler2112 said:

So what do you do with the AC once it is inside the car. Send it to the stock onboard charger which has been hacked to operate while you drive?
.
Too bad Nissan never made an official connection at the rear of the car for this. It would totally eliminate the objection that keeps the vast majority of normal (non early adopters) from buying an EV.
.
Another long thread is here.
.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23064
.

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I totally get the advantages of charging while driving. Hook up a 20kW DC genset trailer and go anywhere.

But there are two advantages with the setup above.

First, the spirit behind an EV is that it's not supposed to use gasoline. By having to pull over and charge, especially at a slower rate than at a public charging station, means the genset, with all its poor emissions and need for maintenance and repairs, becomes an emergency only device. So then the EV gets driven like it's supposed to be driven. Only if your driving 84 miles between charging stations and you run out of juice at 83 miles do you then pull out the genset and run it long enough to make it and finish charging at the charging station.

Second, it's a plug and play solution. No battery hacking. No special mods. No custom trailers. The only modding being done is adding on a simple trailer hitch and having the EVSE upgraded. But you can even have those done for cheap but someone else if you don't want to get your hands dirty.

My feeling is that if you are contemplating such a thing, you bought the wrong car!

99% of the car buying public is saying you bought the wrong car. They won't buy an EV because it won't work the 10 days per year that they might want to take a trip. It would have been an easy fix with a rental gen set and then sales could take off.

knightmb said:

I prefer my version

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I love it!! My idea was a roof rack but this is better in almost every way, I had forgotten about those hitch cargo trays. Also curious how you have it wired for stationary charging only or if you can run it on the move.

TomT said:

My feeling is that if you are contemplating such a thing, you bought the wrong car!

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So you're saying that I should have bought an ICE car that I have to plug in its 1500W engine block heater all night every night for 6 months out of the year, get out and scrape the car windows because in most places idling is illegal, drive 5 miles to my first job, after an hour get back out to a cold car, drive a cold car to my next job where it finally is warming up as I'm pulling up to the job, do that job and repeat the aforementioned driving around a cold ICE short distances here and there that not only offers very little heat and window defrosting but also because of my short drives it never reaches the temperature it needs to produce the level of emissions it's supposed to, just so that I can have a car that can take me nonstop to Denver every once in a great while?

Or a Nissan Leaf that has a great heater I can turn on from my phone, has no need to warm an engine to running temps to get heat in the cabin, doesn't affect its emissions if I "cold start" it several times a day, but with the disadvantage I can't go in it nonstop for a few hundred miles every once in a great while.

It would seem to me that I need a car that meets my daily needs first, and the Nissan Leaf does in flying colors where most other cars would fail miserably. I personally wouldn't mind stopping every once in a while along the road to charge up, even at Level 2 with my 6.6kW onboard charger. But alas! When there's not a single place to charge from going through South Park then I need an alternative. Hopefully a temporary alternative as charging stations become more prevalent.

Do you really think that Joe Q Public is going to want to deal with a generator that takes a long time to recharge (120 volt) and can't charge while the car is on??? I seriously doubt so!

sendler2112 said:

99% of the car buying public is saying you bought the wrong car. They won't buy an EV because it won't work the 10 days per year that they might want to take a trip. It would have been an easy fix with a rental gen set and then sales could take off.

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TomT said:

Do you really think that Joe Q Public is going to want to deal with a generator that takes a long time to recharge (120 volt) and can't charge while the car is on??? I seriously doubt so!

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Seriously, I don't know why this rental-generator-trailer thing is so insanely popular on this board. For the amount of effort that would take Nissan they could just make a 60kwh Leaf. The only way it makes sense is for the DIYer backyard builder who wants to mess around.

TomT said:

Do you really think that Joe Q Public is going to want to deal with a generator that takes a long time to recharge (120 volt) and can't charge while the car is on??? I seriously doubt so!

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There is better info in the other thread so you can come up to speed if you want to join the discussion. But to fill you in, the automakers would have designed a quick charge point in the rear and a gas generator of 15kWh that would serve to maintain the charge while driving up to 70 mph. Drive as far as you want like a regular gas car. So less of the 99% would think that you bought the wrong car.

I do believe that from a commercial stand point there is a problem here.

If they were to make some sort of gen-trailer it wouldn't necessarily be all that cheap. First it would have to meet EPA regulations on vehicle emissions. Although a lot of things like airbags and crush zones wouldn't have to be incorporated the main expensive parts of a vehicle, such as an emissions friendly engine, would have to be incorporated. It also couldn't be a one-size fits all since different cars can have different voltages and electrical systems to merge with, unless this were a pusher trailer. But even then, a trailer built today may not meet the emissions requirements of an engine built tomorrow making these become obsolete quickly. Not only that but there must be a demand for them. So far, there hasn't been a great demand for EV's in general. Then add to that that most EV drivers already have a second car or drive in places like California where there's an EV charging station on every corner. Yes, it would be more practical for many of us to have this kind of technology vs. owning an ICE car as a second car, or renting a car. But there's not enough of a market yet so it won't work yet commercially.

I'm very instead in finding the best option for making my Leaf my only car. Renting an ICE is a good option. I like the basket with the generator option as a plug and play solution. A battery on a trailer from a wrecked Leaf with maybe a solar panel. A generator trailer or a pusher trailer. Maybe put an ad in the paper offering to pay for a charge at someone's home along the way.