saurabhchopra
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jan 2013

Why isn't the EVSE built into the car

Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:02 pm

I have been a leaf and volt driver for a few years. I am curious as to why isn't the EVSE built into the car (kinda like a vacuum cleaner where you just pull the cord out and plug it in). I am sure there is a good reason since none of the cars do that, but I haven't figured out why. Anyone know?

cwerdna
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Why isn't the EVSE built into the car

Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:47 pm


'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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keydiver
Posts: 1080
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Leaf Number: 16484
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
Contact: Website

Re: Why isn't the EVSE built into the car

Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:50 pm

I, for one, do not care to handle a live 240 volt plug in the rain. :roll:
2012 Glacier Pearl SL - Delivered December 8, 2011
10kW Solar PV for recharging!
2006 Prius with Hymotion 5kWh PHEV upgrade
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aarond12
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:42 am
Delivery Date: 17 Oct 2015
Leaf Number: 311353
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: Why isn't the EVSE built into the car

Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:47 am

keydiver wrote:I, for one, do not care to handle a live 240 volt plug in the rain. :roll:

You do realize that the 240V lines aren't energized until connected to a car, the carrier signal is verified, the diode check is performed, and other checks... it's completely safe to handle the charger in the rain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Safety
2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV ES (lease ended) • 2015 Nissan LEAF S • Tesla Model 3 reserved
Mods: Matte black Juke wheels, LED headlights and accessory lights, horn, CarPlay receiver

XeonPony
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:58 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 413826
Location: Yorkton, sask, Canada

Re: Why isn't the EVSE built into the car

Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:25 am

aarond12 wrote:
keydiver wrote:I, for one, do not care to handle a live 240 volt plug in the rain. :roll:

You do realize that the 240V lines aren't energized until connected to a car, the carrier signal is verified, the diode check is performed, and other checks... it's completely safe to handle the charger in the rain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Safety


You misunderstand his statement!

What he saying, is if the evse was built into the car, then the line you'd be handling would be live at 240v when plugging in, Vs the EVSE on the wall, where the handle is dead until the safety checks complete then the contactor closed. Exact reason they came up with an evse!
2013 SV Leaf, Level 2 charger, so far all works great! 130Km daily, 100% charge at night on 240 then trickle charge for 8H durring the day on 120v.

Level 2 charge starts at 130am environmental starts at 6am to 25c for a toasty warm defrosted car!

garsh
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Location: Pittsburgh PA

Re: Why isn't the EVSE built into the car

Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:26 am

aarond12 wrote:
keydiver wrote:I, for one, do not care to handle a live 240 volt plug in the rain. :roll:

You do realize that the 240V lines aren't energized until connected to a car, the carrier signal is verified, the diode check is performed, and other checks... it's completely safe to handle the charger in the rain.
You do realize that he's talking about what he'd have to do if the EVSE were built into the car itself, thus requiring one to plug a 240v extension cord into the car directly.
:P
2012 Black SV, 7 bars, 100,000 miles

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Why isn't the EVSE built into the car

Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:14 am

The relays must be located at the power source with some other components as well, this cuts the power at the source for CFCI and proximity, this is one of the primary functions of an EVSE and can't be avoided. In addition the pilot signal is generated by the EVSE NOT the car because it must be as it dictates the capacity of the supply NOT the car charge capacity. This is why you can't have it in the car.

EV1
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:50 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Why isn't the EVSE built into the car

Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:27 pm

Very valid question, especially when suddenly (+/- 2011/2012 era) companies start willingly selling a cable, connector, a relay and a tone generator in a box for €600 - €1200, some even falsely calling it a "charger", while costs of materials is about €100-€150.

This is the one I bought in 2013 and which comes very close to having no EVSE at all:
Image
It was called "um-evse" and is now sold as "spark", see their website: http://www.charge-amps.com/spark/
You can select 3 chargecurrents; 6A, 10A, 16A and with our European 230V mains it chargers as fast as a "normal" EVSE. Properly installed European Shuko outlets can handle 16A without problems (although it's their very maximum), I have charged my car at about 20 locations this way and only 4 times I needed to switch to 10A. Things get a little warm, yes.
The price of this thing also ridiculously high, I paid about €600, 3 years ago, but no-one else offered such a compact, neat, clean evse back then.
I have no affiliations of any kind with that company, if you might wonder :D

cwerdna
Posts: 8206
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Why isn't the EVSE built into the car

Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:09 pm

EV1 wrote:Very valid question, especially when suddenly (+/- 2011/2012 era) companies start willingly selling a cable, connector, a relay and a tone generator in a box for €600 - €1200, some even falsely calling it a "charger", while costs of materials is about €100-€150.

This is the one I bought in 2013 and which comes very close to having no EVSE at all:
Image
It was called "um-evse" and is now sold as "spark", see their website: http://www.charge-amps.com/spark/
You can select 3 chargecurrents; 6A, 10A, 16A and with our European 230V mains it chargers as fast as a "normal" EVSE. Properly installed European Shuko outlets
...

Discussed long ago viewtopic.php?t=14422. It seems to violate US National Electrical Code (NEC) and from the chatter there, has a cord that is live with 200+ volts the whole time, defeating one of the main purposes of an EVSE, safety.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

arnis
Posts: 900
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Why isn't the EVSE built into the car

Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:08 pm

Short answer - EVSE is designed for specific grid connection point.
Car can not know how much it can draw from a socket (regular socket).

This is why EVSE is off-board.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

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