5 Years of Ownership

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patrick0101

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
368
My Leaf and I have been together nearly 5 years. I am thinking of writing up a 5 year ownership review. What issues would you like to see addressed or question would you have for such a write up?
 
The issue of continued rapid degradation of the Traction Battery in hotter climates. The problem of available QC. The lack of available longer range replacement traction battery. Lack of longer range and the as of yet non offering of a much longer range Nissan traction battery. The lack of dealerships knowing the leaf well enough and the lack of promoting and selling the car. Would like the wireless to continue to work. Would like the brakes a little less touchy. I am concerned about the failure of the 12V battery as it relates to brake failure issues (scared me bad once). Paint is deteriorating around the solar panel in the back. I would like to see the car give information like we get from Leafspy. Would want a more rapid onboard charger. Wish the rear seats could fold down with more clearance to ceiling. I wish they had a lithium battery in place of the 12V lead acid. I wish they provided a built in at least 2000w inverter 120V outlet. I wish they came with factory tinted glass. Wish they had a front camera too. Wish the provided evse cord could do 120V and 240V. Wish there were more choices other than leather on the SL. Need longer sun visors. Needs a spare tire.
 
Thanks Evoforce. These are great suggestions. Some apply to me and others don't. Rather than saving my responses for a write up in May, I'll share my initial thoughts/replies here.

Evoforce said:
The issue of continued rapid degradation of the Traction Battery in hotter climates.
Fortunately for me, I have not experienced the rapid degradation problem (I live in Oregon). The weather here is great for batteries. Each year we have very few days over 100 degrees F and few under freezing. I'm still at 11 of 12 bars, but the range degradation is becoming an issue.

Evoforce said:
The problem of available QC.
QC in Oregon was great. Our state DOT had an EV Chief Officer. She rolled out the West Coast Electric Highway allowing N/S border to border travel and she worked with Travel Oregon to electrify excursions and scenic routes. So I cannot complain about that one.

Evoforce said:
The lack of available range...the as of yet non offering of a much longer range Nissan traction battery
When I bought it I knew it was EPA rated at 73 miles and I knew the range would degrade over time. I still bought it (rather than lease). It would be nice if there was an upgrade option for older Leafs when the new longer range packs come out.

Evoforce said:
lack of dealerships knowing the leaf well enough
The dealership that I went to, Tonkin of Wilsonville, was really cool. They invited our EV club to come to the dealership as a group. We had a long back and forth Q&A about 3 months before the cars came out. They learned a lot about EVs and EV drivers. I've read many of the horror stories. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with such ignorance.

Evoforce said:
Would like the wireless to continue to work.
I agree. If/when AT&T shuts down the 2G that the car uses, they need to have some plan to upgrade the wireless modem. The fact that they have know this was coming for years and have not detailed a plan is ridiculous.

Evoforce said:
Would like the brakes a little less touchy.
Agreed. There was one firmware update that made it a little better, but it is still an issue.

Evoforce said:
I am concerned about the failure of the 12V battery as it relates to brake failure issues (scared me bad once).
I have been lucky and not ran into this one personally.

Evoforce said:
Paint is deteriorating around the solar panel
I'll double check the paint (especially there).

Evoforce said:
I would like to see the car give information like we get from Leafspy.
That would be cool, but I think the Leaf already offers a lot of data compared to most cars and the data that we enthusiasts get into would overwhelm most people.

Evoforce said:
A more rapid onboard charger.
Agreed. I am not sure why they had a 3.3kW charger in the early years. The EVs from the 90s had 6.6kW. Was this for cost, weight, safety... who knows. They need to go to 7.2kW or higher in the next model year, IMHO.
 
patrick0101 said:
Thanks Evoforce. These are great suggestions. Some apply to me and others don't. Rather than saving my responses for a write up in May, I'll share my initial thoughts/replies here.

I have a 4.5 year old leaf with 46K miles. I'll add my comments to this.

patrick0101 said:
Evoforce said:
The issue of continued rapid degradation of the Traction Battery in hotter climates.
Fortunately for me, I have not experienced the rapid degradation problem (I live in Oregon). The weather here is great for batteries. Each year we have very few days over 100 degrees F and few under freezing. I'm still at 11 of 12 bars, but the range degradation is becoming an issue.
I have 9 of 12 bars left and I haven't noticed any loss of range. I have to admit that I never check range either. Once in a while I drive it a few miles on city streets (35mph speed limit) past the very low battery warning. Charging to 100% from this point has always taken just under 5 hours and still takes just under 5 hours.

patrick0101 said:
Evoforce said:
The problem of available QC.
QC in Oregon was great. Our state DOT had an EV Chief Officer. She rolled out the West Coast Electric Highway allowing N/S border to border travel and she worked with Travel Oregon to electrify excursions and scenic routes. So I cannot complain about that one.
This is not an issue for me. I don't have the QC port. I have not opportunity charged very many times: twice at a friend's house using the L1 adapter that came with the car and twice at public L2 charging stations.

patrick0101 said:
Evoforce said:
The lack of available range...the as of yet non offering of a much longer range Nissan traction battery
When I bought it I knew it was EPA rated at 73 miles and I knew the range would degrade over time. I still bought it (rather than lease). It would be nice if there was an upgrade option for older Leafs when the new longer range packs come out.
I don't go outside the range of my car very often and usually farther than even a 50% upgrade would allow. I rent a car for this.

patrick0101 said:
Evoforce said:
lack of dealerships knowing the leaf well enough
The dealership that I went to, Tonkin of Wilsonville, was really cool. They invited our EV club to come to the dealership as a group. We had a long back and forth Q&A about 3 months before the cars came out. They learned a lot about EVs and EV drivers. I've read many of the horror stories. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with such ignorance.
I arranged the entire sale over the internet and only went to the dealer to pick up the car. I have taken it in for "service" a few times. Every time I took my Honda EVPlus in for service it came back with the tires at 32PSI rather than 44PSI. Nissan service has never adjusted tire pressure.

patrick0101 said:
Evoforce said:
Would like the wireless to continue to work.
I agree. If/when AT&T shuts down the 2G that the car uses, they need to have some plan to upgrade the wireless modem. The fact that they have know this was coming for years and have not detailed a plan is ridiculous.
I have never signed up for or used this feature. I just hit the "decline" button as part of my initialization procedure.

patrick0101 said:
Evoforce said:
Would like the brakes a little less touchy.
Agreed. There was one firmware update that made it a little better, but it is still an issue.
Yeah, I can see how this can be annoying. I find that letting my foot completely off the break pedal and back on resets the sensitivity.

patrick0101 said:
Evoforce said:
I am concerned about the failure of the 12V battery as it relates to brake failure issues (scared me bad once).
I have been lucky and not ran into this one personally.
I have not had this problem either.

patrick0101 said:
Evoforce said:
Paint is deteriorating around the solar panel
I'll double check the paint (especially there).
This is not a problem for me either.

patrick0101 said:
Evoforce said:
I would like to see the car give information like we get from Leafspy.
That would be cool, but I think the Leaf already offers a lot of data compared to most cars and the data that we enthusiasts get into would overwhelm most people.
I don't know that I need all that information while I'm driving the car. I would like the "bar" gauge to be linear. At least it is monotonically decreasing. I go about the same distance on the top eight bars as I do on the bottom four. I don't like that it "drops" a bar each time the car is power cycled. At least it eventually recovers from this by giving longer distance on the next bar or two.

The guess-o-meter "miles remaining" number is just silly. The best thing that can be said about it is that it is inaccurate. One number is not enough to information for this function. I care about how far I could go driving the way I am right now, and how far I could go driving as efficiently as possible. This gauge provides neither value. These two numbers provide all the information to make the proper choices. Honda certainly did this right with the EVPlus. They had a horizontal bar graph that presented these numbers simultaneously with a green bar and a yellow bar.

patrick0101 said:
Evoforce said:
A more rapid onboard charger.
Agreed. I am not sure why they had a 3.3kW charger in the early years. The EVs from the 90s had 6.6kW. Was this for cost, weight, safety... who knows. They need to go to 7.2kW or higher in the next model year, IMHO.
I sleep about eight hours every night. As long as the car charges in that amount of time (which it does), I'm happy.

I have had to replace the windshield twice. It's hard to say this is really a problem with the car, but over the previous 40 years, I have never had to replace a windshield.

One of the license plate lights popped out once. I put it back and it hasn't popped out since.

I got a flat tire once (third time in my life). This is certainly not a problem with the car, but having a spare tire would have been nice.

I like that in the 2011 model the pedestrian alert noise maker can be disabled. I live in a townhouse community and I'm sure my neighbors would be upset if my car was "beeping" underneath their bedroom windows when I back out of my garage at 5:30 in the morning. I use it in parking lots, but I'm not sure it really matters.

I like the backup camera with the graphic overlay. I would prefer two more cameras on the front corners of the car with their video images presented in the top right and left corners of the screen while I'm backing up.

I would prefer stronger regenerative braking. It would be nice to only have to use the "brake" pedal for emergencies. The go pedal should be a sort of variable cruise control: hold the pedal at 45mph, and the car will go 45mph -- up hill, down hill, and on the level. The difference between the current speed and the desired speed should set the acceleration/deceleration rate.

I like the controls on the steering wheel. It is nice to have real buttons/switches rather than virtual buttons/switches on a video screen. I can manipulate them without looking at them.
 
patrick0101 said:
My Leaf and I have been together nearly 5 years. I am thinking of writing up a 5 year ownership review. What issues would you like to see addressed or question would you have for such a write up?

Wow, as a new Leaf owner, I will be following this thread for sure...Thanks for taking the time!

Was on the fence for a couple years then the dealership offer a deal I couldn't refuse this past Labor Day...Ended up paying $16k out the door for a brand new 2015 Leaf S after all the discounts and rebates were factored in.
 
15LeafS said:
Ended up paying $16k out the door for a brand new 2015 Leaf S after all the discounts and rebates were factored in.
That is an awesome deal. I hope you love it as much as I have.
 
EdBlackmond said:
I have a 4.5 year old leaf with 46K miles. I'll add my comments to this.
Thanks Ed. It's nice to see different long term owner perspectives.

I think about 1200 Leafs were sold in 2011. I wonder, how many are still in their original owners hands? It seems like many of the people that were quick to jump in on a 2011 Leaf were also quick to jump to a newer vehicle. Long term owners, like us, seem to be a minority.
 
patrick0101 said:
I think about 1200 Leafs were sold in 2011. I wonder, how many are still in their original owners hands? It seems like many of the people that were quick to jump in on a 2011 Leaf were also quick to jump to a newer vehicle. Long term owners, like us, seem to be a minority.
Per http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/, Leaf sales (includes leases) in the US only were 9,655. I've never seen a breakdown of sales vs. leases.
 
I would be getting close to 5 years if I had not been forced to "upgrade" at 50k miles. I intended to keep my 2011 for a long time, but an inattentive driver forced me to replace it. I will keep my 2015 for local driving for a long time unless something bad happens to it. 2011 features I miss on the new car: high torque of original electric motor, electric parking brake, adjustable headlights, switch to disable pedestrian warning beeper, light color interior, and light in glove box. Upgrades I like on 2015: heat pump and improved HVAC control, sun visors with pull-out extensions, Bose sound system, seat and steering wheel heaters, and more aggressive regeneration (with B mode).

Gerry
 
I wonder if a story about 5 years of ownership of a 2011 LEAF is really relevant to the current LEAF or any BEV today. The 2011 LEAF was a compromise of many different issues (schedule, supply chain, technology, etc.) of which all have either been solved or improved upon in later versions. Re-litigating the well documented short comings of the first LEAF is not that interesting.

What might be more interesting is to highlight how the first LEAFs short comings were solved.

What also would be interesting is to understand from an owners POV how ownership of a car that has been essentially been rendered obsolete by advances in the technology will fare moving forward, especially as factory support for that car's technology starts to trail off in the next 2 years.
 
This is a great post, I am the 3rd owner of a"11", knew the battery was going to need the warrantee replacement...love the car. in 2009 i was in japan at a nissan show and they were demoing and loved it.in some ways the technology has stalled, also public charging is either not dependable, or non-ev vehicles in the spot.
 
Speaking as 60 years old owner of only 4 cars since I was 20 plus current 2013 Leaf bought last tear, no car is obsolete until it cannot physically and legally take you where you want to go.
 
not sure how long i'll drive the Leaf, cause I have always believed in keeping a car till it no longer casts a shadow...and I don't like giving the local gov money to register something new. I still have an 87 jeep, but tired of working on it...not a whole lot to the leaf...plug in...
 
Becky50 said:
+1. I agree. We keep our vehicles until they no longer meet our needs. Mileage is always over 100,000 miles and at least 10 years old. Still loving driving my LEAF!


I just passed four years with my leaf - but I suspect the '10yrs 100kmiles' will be tricky - i've not even passed 24k yet! but, as I only require a 40mile EV, I'm quite happy enough so far.

four year in, though, I'm just starting to see a few other EVs (leaf, i3s and telsas mostly) on the road....
 
I think that OrientExpress has it right. Unlike the cars that we've owned and driven in the past, the Leaf has obsolescence built-in. My 14 year old diesel pickup is just as capable as it was the day I bought it. On the other hand, my 5 year old Leaf is down to 50 miles maximum range now and it will no longer be usable for my commute next winter. Replacing the battery does not make financial sense. $6500 out of my pocket to buy three more years of full utility is not a good deal, particularly when the 200 mile cars come out late this year and render mine totally obsolete.

Nissan isn't going to carry 24 kWh batteries in stock a moment longer than required by warranty coverage, so it will not be possible to keep an older Leaf on the road, no matter how much you'd like to keep it running. If you live in a cool climate and can squeeze eight to ten years out of your Leaf on the original battery, you're lucky. I'm kicking myself for not realizing that I was buying a disposable car.

-Karl
 
Heading towards 5 (glorious) years of Leaf ownership this Fall (see profile/sig). I bought (instead of lease) so they could never take it away from me (guess only GM would do that). Best v1.0 of anything I've ever owned.
 
OrientExpress said:
What might be more interesting is to highlight how the first LEAFs short comings were solved.
Here is a story about exactly that <link>; battery improvements, HVAC improvements, weight reductions, more range...
 
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