Buy, Extend OR Turn In

Details below on a 39 mo. lease that ends NOV 15. Offers from Nissan below as well. What should I do?

0 bars lost. 34k miles. Charged to full M-F and 80% on weekends. No problems. No maintenance beyond battery checks & tire rotation. 50 miles / day commute. Now have L2 charger at work w/ dedicated parking spot, so range is not a major concern. 120v at home. Serves most of my needs other than longer trips. A few L3 chargers have popped up in the area. Ideally, I would like to get to a point where I could drive it from Cincinnaty to Indy, Lexington, Louisville, Columbus. That would make it more valuable, but my wife and I are rarely gone at the same time, so I borrow her car when I need to do that and she drives the "Barbie Jeep" as she calls it.

-------------------

Buy - $16k residual w/ offer from NMAC to take $5k off. If do now, pay remaining lease payments + $11k and I own it. Must be done through dealer.

Extend for 1 yr. - payment is $360/mo. because I put $0 out-of-pocket at lease commencement. Makes this less attractive now. NMAC will allow me to skip 2 payments. As such, pay $3,600 for 12 mos.

Turn In - pay the disposal fee & buy / lease a new car.

$11k is just OK for your car at its current mileage, even considering no bars lost. I would do nothing now.
Really just depends on how you feel about the car. If you love it, keep it. If you are hankering for something else, (or a newer Leaf) dump it in Nov. I don't think extending the lease gets you anything unless you are unsure of your direction at that time.
If you do nothing until November, there might be a car that you decide you need instead such as the new Volt or Tesla SUV that should be out by then or even 2016 Leaf for that matter.

I would wait and see where things are in November. I extended my lease simply because the MY16 was going to come out some time in the Fall and I wanted to see the options available. My payments are lower than yours so it was cheaper for me per month to extend rather than buy mine out (due to excessively high residual) or lease a new MY15.

We got our MY2013 SL in Early September 2013. We decided to lease so we could just turn it in to get the MY2017 in September 2016. Nice to be able to walk away to get newest technology. Anyway, we realized that we could either buy and keep, buy and sell at a profit, or just walk away instead of taking a loss.

As it is now we have over 24,000 miles with almost no loss of range (maybe one mile). Our 100% gids shows below, and we are now at 256. Plus, we LOVE our LEAF.

Therefore if the $5,000 discount still applies in another 14 months we plan to buy and keep our LEAF. Besides, the wife wanted all the options so we can buy this thing for only a little more that the cost of the options. After almost 2 years it still looks and feels like new, so in another year I am sure it will still be the same.

Now to another topic, I really do not understand all those who complain about the leaf range. The leaf is a local commute car, not a long distance driver. We only charge to 100% about once per week or so, therefore most of the time we only charge to 80% on our home L2. We always have plenty of range for all the local driving we do. We still average about 300 miles per week which is keeping us on track for the 15,000 miles per year on our lease. We still have our ICE for trips out of the local area, and we rent when we drive across states on longer vacation trips. Even if we could use the Leaf it would cost us an additional $0.15 per mile on the Lease. This Saturday we are leaving on a two week cross-country trip of over 6,000 miles. That would be over $900 excess mileage cost on the Lease, but we can rent and buy the gas for less than that. Why would anyone want to take their own Leaf, even if there were "FREE" L3 DCQC network to use along the way. Unless there were things to do at each stop to not "Waste" the time it took to recharge every hour of driving, it would be a VERY long drive. JMHO.

OK. Getting close to decision time.

Still don't think extending for another year makes much sense for me at $360/mo.

Considering turning it in and buying / leasing a 2016 Leaf. What are some of the best deals out there currently? If I can update the technology by 4 yrs., stay around the same payment on a lease and keep it to 2 yrs. or so, probably would go that direction. Would the dealer be motivated any more / less based on the fact that I am turning in a Nissan on a lease?

Otherwise, stroking a check for $11k and owning it seems like a pretty good deal. I might be able to buy a random 2012 SL Leaf with the same amount of miles for $500 - $1000 cheaper, but not knowing where it came from or how it was treated is not worth it to me for that kind of savings. I know I have treated my car well and there are no surprises there.

Any more thoughts from the assembled masses?

jpa2825 said:

OK. Getting close to decision time.

Still don't think extending for another year makes much sense for me at $360/mo.

Considering turning it in and buying / leasing a 2016 Leaf. What are some of the best deals out there currently? If I can update the technology by 4 yrs., stay around the same payment on a lease and keep it to 2 yrs. or so, probably would go that direction. Would the dealer be motivated any more / less based on the fact that I am turning in a Nissan on a lease?

Otherwise, stroking a check for $11k and owning it seems like a pretty good deal. I might be able to buy a random 2012 SL Leaf with the same amount of miles for $500 - $1000 cheaper, but not knowing where it came from or how it was treated is not worth it to me for that kind of savings. I know I have treated my car well and there are no surprises there.

Any more thoughts from the assembled masses?

Click to expand...

Extending your lease doesn't commit you to 12 months. It's a month-to-month extension. Not only that, the two "free" months come first, and you can still cancel at any time after that.

There are no 2016 Leafs available yet. Maybe in November.

Buying your LEAF seems quite attractive. $11K ain't bad for a vehicle that you know its history. You will likely lose your first bar soon, but range doesn't seem to be an issue. Even the new 2016 LEAF might have trouble getting to those other cities, so I'm not sure you're going to get a lot of benefit for the longer range.

The heat pump in the '16 might make it worth it, given Cincy's winters, but if you've survived so far, keeping the car might not be a bad idea.

Road salt might be another consideration. Does your car have any rust on its frame or underbody? Salting the roads is really hard on cars. That might be another reason to get a new LEAF instead.

Call/email your dealer to see what the buy-out is. My buy-out ended up being $10,300 when my residual was about $16,500. That's a fair bit better than the $5k off I thought I'd get. I ended up buying my 2012.

jpa2825 said:

OK. Getting close to decision time.

Still don't think extending for another year makes much sense for me at $360/mo.

Click to expand...

Are they nuts? You can do much better than that with a brand-new car.

Would the dealer be motivated any more / less based on the fact that I am turning in a Nissan on a lease?

Click to expand...

Iirc, they typically forgive up to $500 in damages, but it's always a shell game. They'll shuffle numbers and take what you let them take.

Otherwise, stroking a check for $11k and owning it seems like a pretty good deal. I might be able to buy a random 2012 SL Leaf with the same amount of miles for $500 - $1000 cheaper, but not knowing where it came from or how it was treated is not worth it to me for that kind of savings. I know I have treated my car well and there are no surprises there.

Any more thoughts from the assembled masses?

Click to expand...

For current state of the art, I think it's best to lease EVs. Too many improvements coming to make buy-and-hold a good strategy.

IF you don't need the hybrid heater or more than 10 miles less range than what you get now (allowing for future degradation) and you still love the car, buy it. You aren't stuck with it - you just have to be prepared to "lose" a couple of thousand on resale if you want a new Leaf in 2017. The ones who really lose out when they buy are the ones who expect the car to be a good financial investment, or who need all the range it has right now, or who really want options the car doesn't have. You don't appear to fit into any of those categories.

I was very happy with my Leaf. That , said, Until I drove a B Class everything was gold. Unless you really need the chadmo fast charging the stock EVSE is fine.

The B class EV is more ready to go. The internal audio options are great!! What other car has a weather band. My loaner has the price of $17 .20 per day. I just got a call that the car will be ready next Tuesday, Good thing State Farm pays for the loaner. My Leaf was great as a stand alone but I will not go back. The B is better.

IT SUCKS THAT I have gasser but that is the world of loaner cars.

Anyone that got offered the 2 months credit probably wont have this honored now unless they actually sent you paperwork that you've been sat on and not sent in.

I was in the same boat and after calling back in to take the deal after a month or so, I was told it was too late.

Not happy with Nissan now since I don't remember being told it was time sensitive. As such the car is going back and I've jumped to another brand already due to a deal I couldn't pass up.

billg said:

jpa2825 said:

OK. Getting close to decision time.

Still don't think extending for another year makes much sense for me at $360/mo.

Considering turning it in and buying / leasing a 2016 Leaf. What are some of the best deals out there currently? If I can update the technology by 4 yrs., stay around the same payment on a lease and keep it to 2 yrs. or so, probably would go that direction. Would the dealer be motivated any more / less based on the fact that I am turning in a Nissan on a lease?

Otherwise, stroking a check for $11k and owning it seems like a pretty good deal. I might be able to buy a random 2012 SL Leaf with the same amount of miles for $500 - $1000 cheaper, but not knowing where it came from or how it was treated is not worth it to me for that kind of savings. I know I have treated my car well and there are no surprises there.

Any more thoughts from the assembled masses?

Click to expand...

Extending your lease doesn't commit you to 12 months. It's a month-to-month extension. Not only that, the two "free" months come first, and you can still cancel at any time after that.

There are no 2016 Leafs available yet. Maybe in November.

Click to expand...

Spoke to NMAC last night. They said no extensions available. However, I have a letter from them that specifically says can be extended until expiration. They also said 2 mo. free was expired. That I could potentially believe. Are all of the extensions essentially month-to-month? If so, I may go that direction until I can make a good decision. Hard to believe, but it sort of snuck up on me even after 39 mos.

Got my inspection done today and $0 chargeable wear & tear. As such, only cost to turn in is $395. Makes it more likely it goes back. Need to call NMAC tomorrow and try to nail down if the extension is truly month-to-month. If so, inspection is good for 90 days and I might extend for 1 mo. to get to 12.24 and turn it in then. Kids will be home from college and 3 cars for 4 drivers is much easier to handle.

Stupid taxation system in KY discourages car purchases at end of year. You pay Sales Tax (6%) in the year you buy the car and then an ad valorem tax if you own it on JAN 1 of the following year. As such, if you buy on 12.31, you pay 1 more year of taxes than if you buy on 1.1.

OK. Got transferred to a more helpful rep at NMAC today. She stated the best purchase option program still available on the MY12 was $5k off purchase price. I referenced the $6k and $7k off offers I had seen provided to other people and she vaguely remembered a $7k off promotion for certain MY and lease programs back in FEB or MAR, but none that were applicable currently.'

I then asked her about the Lease Extension Program referenced in the letter I was looking at. She confirmed it was available (different from last phone conversation) and confirmed it was actually a month-to-month rather than a full year. I asked about pro-rated months if it was turned in mid-cycle. She said NMAC does not do pro-rated payments, but they do offer a 10 day grace period when you can still turn it in. We went through the example if I pay the NOV 24th payment (1 of 12 on a year extension), the next payment would be due 12.24. However, I would have until 10 days after the 12.24 date to turn the car in without making the 12.24 payment. Same would be true for future months.

She sent over the paperwork via email and waited to make sure it opened for me since it is password protected. I just reviewed it and there is nothing in the paperwork that expressly says it is month-to-month. Looks like a straight 12 mo. extension. However, I am pretty confident they wouldn't be able to do much against me if I try to cancel and they want to stick me for the full 12 mo.

Interestingly, the paperwork shows that the $360/mo. I will be paying is not for nothing. Residual drops from current $16,838.80 to $13,152.16, or depreciation of $3,686.64. Rent charge of $389.04 (assume that is financing) added in yields $4,075.68 / 12 = $339.64 base monthly payment. Sales, Use & Lease tax of $20.38 yields monthly payment of $360.02. Total payments = $4,320.24. Of course, who knows if they will be running $X off residual at the time I am ready to turn it back in, so I would be losing the opportunity to capture that $5k off savings which currently exists. I also don't know how, if at all, they would react to trying to purchase before the 12 mo. extension is up. Probably would not be too open to it, but I guess it could be discussed.

At least now if I am not comfortable with my decision next TUE, I can pay 1 mo. lease and get to the end of 2015. If I then turn it in prior to 12.31.15, I should be off the hook for the property taxes associated with 2016. (It was valued at $11,275 in 2015 and I paid $222.24 in taxes on it (~2%).

Guy I leased this one from is trying to put me in a 2015 S for 39 mo. for $239/mo. OR purchase for $25,765 plus taxes & fees. I told him 39 mo. is too long (particularly with the MY16s right around the corner), that $239/mo. was too high and that I had seen S purchase prices as low as $20,640 before the $7,500 tax credit, so he wasn't in the ball park. Did the comparison from S to SV to SL online. There were a few "nice to have" things on the SV and SL, but I am not sure I "need" any of them for what is basically a commuter car.

On the other end of the spectrum, I am going to take an extended test drive (THU evening to SAT afternoon) of a 2015 BMW i3. Not sure I want to spend that much $, but they appear to have some attractive lease options as well. Hope I don't "love it" so much that I make a stupid decision.

At $11,000 and with your climate and what seems to be limited degradation, I might consider buying it. Since Ohio doesn't have a state rebate, a new one (even with a federal tax credit) will probably cost a fair deal more. They quoted you $26K or so for a 2015 S w/QC, add tax and fees and you're at $28,000, subtract $5K NMAC credit and you're at 23,000, subtract $7500 federal credit (if eligible) and you're at $15,500. For that price, you'd get a newer car, with a lower trim, but also with a fresh battery. The advantage to keeping yours is that you're likely going to only lose at max $3K on it when you sell it. If you kept it for a couple years and then bought a new 200+ mi EV, you'd still have a decent amount of resale. However, you might wind up in a similar spot with the 2015 and find that in about 3 years, its only worth about $11K? I would look at this decision more from a future buying perspective, come the Chevy Bolt, Leaf Gen2, or Tesla Model 3, what option puts me in a better position to make the switch? Committed to a new lease that doesn't allow you to get out of it, would be my biggest fear in this situation. I'd stay away from that.

tkdbrusco said:

At $11,000 and with your climate and what seems to be limited degradation, I might consider buying it. Since Ohio doesn't have a state rebate, a new one (even with a federal tax credit) will probably cost a fair deal more. They quoted you $26K or so for a 2015 S w/QC, add tax and fees and you're at $28,000, subtract $5K NMAC credit and you're at 23,000, subtract $7500 federal credit (if eligible) and you're at $15,500. For that price, you'd get a newer car, with a lower trim, but also with a fresh battery. The advantage to keeping yours is that you're likely going to only lose at max $3K on it when you sell it. If you kept it for a couple years and then bought a new 200+ mi EV, you'd still have a decent amount of resale. However, you might wind up in a similar spot with the 2015 and find that in about 3 years, its only worth about $11K? I would look at this decision more from a future buying perspective, come the Chevy Bolt, Leaf Gen2, or Tesla Model 3, what option puts me in a better position to make the switch? Committed to a new lease that doesn't allow you to get out of it, would be my biggest fear in this situation. I'd stay away from that.

Click to expand...

Sound logic. It is certainly a "known" with a limited downside. I am test driving a 2015 BMW i3 today & tomorrow. Very nice car but I am not sure it is worth the extra I'd be paying. I've seen some posts on their forum about getting a 2 yr. lease for under $300/mo. Even if true, $7,200 for 2 yrs. rental and not much chance the value exceeds the residual at the end seems steep. If I buy the Leaf for $11.5k, I'd hope to be able to sell it for at least $6k or $7k in 2 yrs. That would be $4.5k - $5.5k over the same period.

jpa2825 said:

tkdbrusco said:

At $11,000 and with your climate and what seems to be limited degradation, I might consider buying it. Since Ohio doesn't have a state rebate, a new one (even with a federal tax credit) will probably cost a fair deal more. They quoted you $26K or so for a 2015 S w/QC, add tax and fees and you're at $28,000, subtract $5K NMAC credit and you're at 23,000, subtract $7500 federal credit (if eligible) and you're at $15,500. For that price, you'd get a newer car, with a lower trim, but also with a fresh battery. The advantage to keeping yours is that you're likely going to only lose at max $3K on it when you sell it. If you kept it for a couple years and then bought a new 200+ mi EV, you'd still have a decent amount of resale. However, you might wind up in a similar spot with the 2015 and find that in about 3 years, its only worth about $11K? I would look at this decision more from a future buying perspective, come the Chevy Bolt, Leaf Gen2, or Tesla Model 3, what option puts me in a better position to make the switch? Committed to a new lease that doesn't allow you to get out of it, would be my biggest fear in this situation. I'd stay away from that.

Click to expand...

Sound logic. It is certainly a "known" with a limited downside. I am test driving a 2015 BMW i3 today & tomorrow. Very nice car but I am not sure it is worth the extra I'd be paying. I've seen some posts on their forum about getting a 2 yr. lease for under $300/mo. Even if true, $7,200 for 2 yrs. rental and not much chance the value exceeds the residual at the end seems steep. If I buy the Leaf for $11.5k, I'd hope to be able to sell it for at least $6k or $7k in 2 yrs. That would be $4.5k - $5.5k over the same period.

Click to expand...

From my perspective right now, it's all about an exit point so that I can get into a Tesla Model 3 as soon as possible, which includes putting a deposit down the second they let me. If you look at the numbers of Tesla production in the US, in addition to the growth rate with Model X coming, you will have maybe 6 months of Model 3 production before they hit the 200,000 number for cars produced. What this means is that if you're not one of those first 6 moths, you don't get the full $7500 tax credit. I don't play on leasing, so for me, that's important. You may be in a similar situation with a Chevy Bolt (since Volts are selling like hot cakes right now) and the same thing with a Leaf Gen 2. What this means to me is that I won't commit myself to anything that I can't get out of by Dec. 2017. So if I were in your shoes, that would mean keeping my current Leaf, buying a new 2015 (assuming you can get a killer deal!) or leasing something else for 2 years. Its not about the price now, it's what that extra year on the lease costs you while you're stuck in a car that is a Gen 1 and you want to get a new hot 200+ mi EV. This was why when I bought my 2015 S w/QC back in Aug 2014, I did the 3 year loan and got the best deal possible. I knew I was going to dump it in about 3 years so it was all about how much I could save and how much the cost of ownership would be. I need to sell my Leaf in Dec 2017 for $10,500 to equal what a 3 year lease would have cost me. As far as your estimates for the resale of your Leaf in 2 years, I don't see how it could drop to less than $6K. When you consider that even if nothing changes with the current $5500 price tag for a replacement 24kwh pack, a $6K used 2012 SL could be made into a brand new car full capacity for a total cost of $11,500. And this assumes that the pack price doesn't drop even further, or that Nissan doesn't all of the sudden make the 30kwh pack available to every older leaf model, both of which are possibilities, but either way, I can't see any used Leaf, short of some really trashed ones, dropping much lower than $6K. Another thought would be to go lease a new 30kwh 2016 SV for 2 years (if they let you). I'd be willing to bet that in 2 years, when the market is flooded with 200+ mi EV models, Nissan would be offering huge discounts on residuals for lease returns. You could probably buy that 2016 SV for $5-7K off residual with 0% financing. They aren't gonna want those things back when Gen 2 hits. I'm partially curious if some of the blow out deals in a year and a half on the 30kwh leafs might be so tempting that I'll buy one of those over the Tesla?

Sorry for the long winded response.

tkdbrusco said:

jpa2825 said:

tkdbrusco said:

At $11,000 and with your climate and what seems to be limited degradation, I might consider buying it. Since Ohio doesn't have a state rebate, a new one (even with a federal tax credit) will probably cost a fair deal more. They quoted you $26K or so for a 2015 S w/QC, add tax and fees and you're at $28,000, subtract $5K NMAC credit and you're at 23,000, subtract $7500 federal credit (if eligible) and you're at $15,500. For that price, you'd get a newer car, with a lower trim, but also with a fresh battery. The advantage to keeping yours is that you're likely going to only lose at max $3K on it when you sell it. If you kept it for a couple years and then bought a new 200+ mi EV, you'd still have a decent amount of resale. However, you might wind up in a similar spot with the 2015 and find that in about 3 years, its only worth about $11K? I would look at this decision more from a future buying perspective, come the Chevy Bolt, Leaf Gen2, or Tesla Model 3, what option puts me in a better position to make the switch? Committed to a new lease that doesn't allow you to get out of it, would be my biggest fear in this situation. I'd stay away from that.

Click to expand...

Sound logic. It is certainly a "known" with a limited downside. I am test driving a 2015 BMW i3 today & tomorrow. Very nice car but I am not sure it is worth the extra I'd be paying. I've seen some posts on their forum about getting a 2 yr. lease for under $300/mo. Even if true, $7,200 for 2 yrs. rental and not much chance the value exceeds the residual at the end seems steep. If I buy the Leaf for $11.5k, I'd hope to be able to sell it for at least $6k or $7k in 2 yrs. That would be $4.5k - $5.5k over the same period.

Click to expand...

From my perspective right now, it's all about an exit point so that I can get into a Tesla Model 3 as soon as possible, which includes putting a deposit down the second they let me. If you look at the numbers of Tesla production in the US, in addition to the growth rate with Model X coming, you will have maybe 6 months of Model 3 production before they hit the 200,000 number for cars produced. What this means is that if you're not one of those first 6 moths, you don't get the full $7500 tax credit. I don't play on leasing, so for me, that's important. You may be in a similar situation with a Chevy Bolt (since Volts are selling like hot cakes right now) and the same thing with a Leaf Gen 2. What this means to me is that I won't commit myself to anything that I can't get out of by Dec. 2017. So if I were in your shoes, that would mean keeping my current Leaf, buying a new 2015 (assuming you can get a killer deal!) or leasing something else for 2 years. Its not about the price now, it's what that extra year on the lease costs you while you're stuck in a car that is a Gen 1 and you want to get a new hot 200+ mi EV. This was why when I bought my 2015 S w/QC back in Aug 2014, I did the 3 year loan and got the best deal possible. I knew I was going to dump it in about 3 years so it was all about how much I could save and how much the cost of ownership would be. I need to sell my Leaf in Dec 2017 for $10,500 to equal what a 3 year lease would have cost me. As far as your estimates for the resale of your Leaf in 2 years, I don't see how it could drop to less than $6K. When you consider that even if nothing changes with the current $5500 price tag for a replacement 24kwh pack, a $6K used 2012 SL could be made into a brand new car full capacity for a total cost of $11,500. And this assumes that the pack price doesn't drop even further, or that Nissan doesn't all of the sudden make the 30kwh pack available to every older leaf model, both of which are possibilities, but either way, I can't see any used Leaf, short of some really trashed ones, dropping much lower than $6K. Another thought would be to go lease a new 30kwh 2016 SV for 2 years (if they let you). I'd be willing to bet that in 2 years, when the market is flooded with 200+ mi EV models, Nissan would be offering huge discounts on residuals for lease returns. You could probably buy that 2016 SV for $5-7K off residual with 0% financing. They aren't gonna want those things back when Gen 2 hits. I'm partially curious if some of the blow out deals in a year and a half on the 30kwh leafs might be so tempting that I'll buy one of those over the Tesla?

Sorry for the long winded response.

Click to expand...

I like the analysis. Thanks for taking the time.

Taking the extension gives me the most flexibility. It takes away the purchase option with the $5k discount ($11.5k). If I use only the 1 month, I basically trade the 1 mo. extension for the taxes by not owning or leasing any car until JAN. I also get another month of research and available deals probably get better in late DEC.

Gonna press the BMW dealers on the i3. Both local dealers have a 2014 i3 on the lot. Given they are starting to get more aggressive with the 2015s with rumors of expanded capacity in 2016 already being confirmed, it appears some crazy deals are out there for the 2014s (although they consistently say only $4,875 cap reduction on those instead of the full $7,500). If you can drive the purchase price low enough with the residual coming off the MSRP and the Fed tax cap reduction, you can achieve some low monthly payments on a nominally high priced car.

Dialogue is greatly appreciated as I try to work through these options.

Our lease on a 2013 SL expired in May, and we renewed for 6 months. I called them in November to extend again, and they told me that extensions are no longer being offered. They did give me a 1 month courtesy extension to have time to inspect it. I called a few days later just to see if the first rep maybe didn't know what they were talking about, but I was told again that an extension is no longer possible. Are others still getting offered extensions? That would be my preferred option, at least for a few more months.