Help.. would you buy a 2012 or lease a 2015 ???

Hi, as the newest member of this forum I hope I can ask some dumb questions...

I am contemplating purchasing a 2012 LEAF with only 13k miles on it for $15k + 8% tax vs leasing/buying a new one...

Normally a car with only 13k miles would be new in my mind, but after doing some research here and elsewhere, I am concerned that a 2012 with only 13k miles must have been sitting around A LOT... That means the batteries have perhaps been over charged or undercharged and at any rate were not charged often.

I have not seen the battery meter after a full charge, I hope to do that Wednesday and if it only shows 2 bars gone, can I assume the batteries are in reasonably good shape or could there be problems lurking due to the low usage of the car ?

Also, if I understand the charging, you don't need the hi speed, pay extra. charging receptacle if you just want to charge it in say 8hrs using a 220 volt outlet do you ?

Does anyone have a 2012 out there and if so, are you still getting greater than 60 miles in hilly, hot (using AC) conditions ?

Thanks so much for any thoughts or help you can offer in this regard...

Cheers

I would NOT buy a $16,200 car with 2 capacity bars missing. period. walk away.

60 miles with the AC should be easy. I have a 2012 I bought 6 months ago with 4800 miles on it.

it now has 19,000 miles on it (or 18,000 have to double check) I still have 12 capacity bars (on the verge of losing one 89% SOC)

and I get 60 miles at 0'f no heat of course. I expect I will get 80 miles with the AC on pushing it hard 90 if I take it easy.

at $10k if the car has enough range for your needs you might be ok (remember it is WINTER range you need to worry about NOT summer range)

but at $16,200 that is a lot of money for a car that has already lost 20% of its capacity. in my opinion.

I would lease the 2015 and buy it out if you decide you like it at the end of the lease.

or just buy a 2015. I have seen 2015's sell for under $20k used.

The little battery capacity bars always show the actual (relative) capacity, regardless of state of charge, and the larger fuel bars always show 12 when the pack is charged, so just look at the dash, regardless of charge. But I'll make it easy for you: don't buy the 2012 with its capacity loss issues, lease a new 2015. Others will explain to you in detail why the 2012 is a loser in this case. It would have to be $11k and you'd have to only want 50 miles maximum range for it to be competitive.

nerys said:

I would NOT buy a $16,200 car with 2 capacity bars missing. period. walk away.
...
but at $16,200 that is a lot of money for a car that has already lost 20% of its capacity. in my opinion.

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Agreed. It's too much.

A friend of mine who's been scoping out the used Leaf market found http://www.autosportsinc.com/2012_Nissan_LEAF_Hickory_NC_252245030.veh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ($8995 for a '12 Leaf SL w/o CHAdeMO in North Carolina, w/41K miles and 2 capacity bars missing, that we can see).

Can you give us more information?

I had the same argument with myself also and was concerned about the range of a used Leaf.

The answer for me, is based on daily driving distance. If my commute is less than 40 miles, I probably can do with a degraded battery. Since my commute is 55 miles round trip daily, I decided to go with a leased Leaf. Luckily, I work 1 day at home.

Another consideration is your location. I read somewhere that less than 20 degrees F the range of the car is significantly limited.

I also considering the price of the battery upgrade in the future.

Perhaps someone here can chime in about LeafSpy to help you assess the used car battery condition or you can ask the dealer for the current battery condition report.

ahhh check the picture. does NOT have chedemo socket ??? I thought the SL came with that or is it a seperate option. derp I missed the w/o in your post

wow. even that car is cheaper than mine. $9k plus a new battery at $6k and bingo boom shakalacka brand new battery 2012 for $15k

sweet. and in the blue I would love to have had.

I forgot to add that I am trickling charging on the cable that came with the car (12 AMP/110V). Works well so far as I manage to charge almost to 97% in 12-13 hours time frame. The outlet is rated for 20 AMP so I have electrician coming this week to install 240V outlet so I can use Turbocord Dual (16 AMP/240V) later once I switched to TOU2 EV rate with SD G&E. Next step is get some solar quotes.

Are you in east county San Diego?

nerys said:

cwerdna said:

A friend of mine who's been scoping out the used Leaf market found http://www.autosportsinc.com/2012_Nissan_LEAF_Hickory_NC_252245030.veh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ($8995 for a '12 Leaf SL w/o CHAdeMO in North Carolina, w/41K miles and 2 capacity bars missing, that we can see).

Click to expand...

ahhh check the picture. does NOT have chedemo socket ??? I thought the SL came with that or is it a seperate option.

Click to expand...

Assuming the year is correct (2012), that is an SV like mine, NOT an SL. 2012 SL came with CHAdeMO as standard, as well as fog lamps and IIRC a backup camera. All three of these items are missing from that car.

Don't bother with a 2012. Two bars down is approaching a 50 mile range car in the conditions you describe. Ask me how I know.

As someone who just bought a 2012, here are some of my thoughts:
1) I'd be surprised if you couldn't do much better on the price. Mine (a 2012 SL with 20k miles) cost me $12,500(+tax), plus $1125 to extend the warranty to 84mo./70k miles. (Some people might call me foolish for doing that bit, but the factory 3yr/36k warranty will expire on me in November, and I would like to see it make it through at least one winter without problems before I call the car "good to go" in this climate, so it was worth it to me. Plus towing from Nissan for that period of time, just in case...)
2) As others have said, if it doesn't have all 12 bars on the right side, walk away. There are used LEAFs to be had with all 12 still intact (mine did). At an absolute minimum, depending on your location, at least get one with 11, but I would think that battery saw hell if it's got 13k miles and only 10/12 total capacity.
3) Definitely make sure it has the L1 EVSE in the trunk (not just the bag!) and the SD card in the navigation unit. A lot of used ones around here are missing those two items, and while the L1 EVSE might not be a long-term need, unless you have an EVSE handy from day 1, you're going to want it. Also, getting a replacement SD card is a pain, but I'm told that you can take a used SD card from another LEAF and many/most dealers can reprogram it to match the one you buy (charge for that service may vary dramatically...). (Many used cars go through auction, and it sounds like sometimes those things go missing during that process. It seems that even Certified Pre-owned LEAFs can be sold without those included...)
4) Honestly, as I said in #1, SLs go for less than what you're being offered (the SV trim). Shop around a bit more before you jump in.

cwerdna said:

nerys said:

I would NOT buy a $16,200 car with 2 capacity bars missing. period. walk away.
...
but at $16,200 that is a lot of money for a car that has already lost 20% of its capacity. in my opinion.

Click to expand...

Agreed. It's too much.

A friend of mine who's been scoping out the used Leaf market found http://www.autosportsinc.com/2012_Nissan_LEAF_Hickory_NC_252245030.veh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ($8995 for a '12 Leaf SL w/o CHAdeMO in North Carolina, w/41K miles and 2 capacity bars missing, that we can see).

Click to expand...

Does the Zero Emission screen still show up on the head unit screen w/o the SD card? I don't remember, but I suspect that they would be showing something more interesting (like, an actual GPS screen) if the GPS was working... just might want to make sure on that one. But also, yeah, that's totally an SV. In addition to the other items mentioned in a previous post, it's missing that all-important solar panel

In addition to all of the other comments (re: capacity bars down; price of car; lack of a QC port) I'd strongly suggest that you go for a used 2013 model instead of a 2012 or 2011. 2013 LEAF batteries have a much better track record, and unless you get one of the low-priced S models you'll get the 6.6 on-board charger so that L2 charging will take "up to" 4 hours for a full battery instead of 7. If you do go this route make sure that you don't get one of the 2013s with no backup camera (2013 had around-view and backup camera options, but for some reason a few of the configurations had no backup camera at all), make sure you get one with a QC port (easier to sell later, even if there aren't currently QCs where you live) and if you are in a cold climate the SV or higher model for the heat pump.

RonDawg said:

nerys said:

cwerdna said:

A friend of mine who's been scoping out the used Leaf market found http://www.autosportsinc.com/2012_Nissan_LEAF_Hickory_NC_252245030.veh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ($8995 for a '12 Leaf SL w/o CHAdeMO in North Carolina, w/41K miles and 2 capacity bars missing, that we can see).

Click to expand...

ahhh check the picture. does NOT have chedemo socket ??? I thought the SL came with that or is it a seperate option.

Click to expand...

Assuming the year is correct (2012), that is an SV like mine, NOT an SL. 2012 SL came with CHAdeMO as standard, as well as fog lamps and IIRC a backup camera. All three of these items are missing from that car.

Click to expand...

Whoops! You're right, it couldn't be a '12 SL. I had totally forgotten about http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/19/2012-nissan-leaf-higher-price-tag-standard-equipment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; stating that CHAdeMO inlet was standard on SL.

If you do go this route make sure that you don't get one of the 2013s with no backup camera (2013 had around-view and backup camera options, but for some reason a few of the configurations had no backup camera at all), make sure you get one with a QC port (easier to sell later, even if there aren't currently QCs where you live) and if you are in a cold climate the SV or higher model for the heat pump.

Click to expand...

The SV with no backup camera is the elusive "base" model, I'm sure. Unless you hate luxury and comfort, I'd avoid that unless you don't mind a lower price with no options. As for only buying one with a QC port, do that if they have QC stations in your area. If not, the lack of one reduces the price without affecting usability at all. I'd go for that (and did, when I leased).

Thank You, Thank You and Thank You...

So many great posts and I really appreciate your thoughts...

I live in the San Diego area (PQ) so very low temps will not be a problem (nor very high temps either as I only live about 9 miles from the coast)...

Sounds like I need to look at a 2013+ model...

Ya, I thought the price was a bit high too... it's a carmax deal so they probably won't move on the price... it's OK I can walk away...

We have Solar now and producing 2x the power we are using so wanted to get this car to use the "free" power, figure that will save me over $200 bucks a month...

Unfortunately the local Nissan dealer pulls a bait and switch on advertising... Mossey was advertising a $179/mth lease (36mth, 2,500 down, 12k mi/yr) on a 30k MSRP model but of course they don't have any when you go get one and then they want $300/mth on a 34k MSRP model... pissed off with those guys playing games...

One last question, the dealer was really pushing the extended warranty deal (I know sales guys must make a big commission off those) they were telling me the average repair bill on a LEAF was $2,100 bucks so the $3,300 extended warranty is really necessary... kinda scared me away from buying one, that and the huge depreciation these vehicles are taking (due to the incentives)...

So I think I will wait and try to get a good '13 or newer one later....

Thanks again for all your input and help with this..

Cheers

They are lying. The "average" Leaf needs no repairs at all, and the defects that showed up in some 2013 models were covered under the basic warranty. The extended warranty is like tornado insurance in the Northeast: you can't say it will *never* pay off, but the odds are it will just make the dealer more money.

Yes, and also, I've found that most 3rd parties can't add extended warranties to the LEAF. I bought mine from a non-Nissan dealer, and they told me I had to go to Nissan to extend my warranty if I chose to (and I did, but mainly because mine is nearing the end of its factory warranty, so I got a cheap extended warranty from Nissan).

SDLEAFER said:

...
One last question, the dealer was really pushing the extended warranty deal (I know sales guys must make a big commission off those) they were telling me the average repair bill on a LEAF was $2,100 bucks so the $3,300 extended warranty is really necessary... kinda scared me away from buying one, that and the huge depreciation these vehicles are taking (due to the incentives)...

...

Click to expand...

Dealers
Why do people listen :?

Most LEAFs have required no repairs yet.
One reported motor replacement in Arizona, a few on board charger failures, a few 2011 / 2012 parking brake problems.
Most done under warranty.

The extended warranty is a matter of whether you want coverage for an unlikely event that might be costly.
I bought 7 year, 70,000 miles.
But I should have first found the posts on MNL telling about dealer selling it cheaper than anyone else.
If you want it, shop around.

Plummeting used prices?
Yes, part of why 85% or more are leasing.
NMAC is dropping residuals by $5,000 on 2013.
With Gen 2 with double the range option arriving likely late next year, part of the still somewhat early adopter saga of high cost and rapidly plummeting value.

TimLee said:

The extended warranty is a matter of whether you want coverage for an unlikely event that might be costly.
I bought 7 year, 70,000 miles.
But I should have first found the posts on MNL telling about dealer selling it cheaper than anyone else.
If you want it, shop around.

Click to expand...

That's the same warranty I got (and because mine was < 3 years in service, I was able to buy it as a "new" warranty rather than pre-owned).
Which reminds me of something else: you'll probably want to check the CarFAX/AutoCheck report and make sure the factory warranty is still good (i.e. the "in-service" date was < 3 years ago). Keep in mind that the in-service date shown on the report may be as much as a couple of weeks later than the actual in-service date that Nissan has (because it's the date that the state processed the sale), so given that today is April 8, I wouldn't buy one with an in-service date (per the report) before May 2012 at a minimum.
AutoCheck has 30 days of unlimited reports by VIN for less than CarFAX wants for 5 reports by VIN, so I recommend going that route. Some people think that AutoCheck is more thorough, too (but I think that's debatable -- probably goes both ways).
I ended up buying my warranty from Vaden Nissan in Savannah, GA. Reasonably hassle-free process (just needed the VIN and a photo of the odometer to verify that the car was still under the factory warranty). Don't bother with putting your info into their website though -- just call the number they give, because once you put your info in, they say "OK, now call the number!" Kind of silly, if you ask me. Also, I was able to talk them down some from their quoted price.

I have a "12" with 24,000 Miles.
Still have 12 bar's but some range loss (20%?)

OBC changed early on, and both front struts at different times due to leakage found at state inspection.
Also replaced the drivers rubber window track, all under warranty.

Bought an extended warranty from USAA. I think it's 70 months and it was like $1130?

Yes, I got the one that covers all "Electrical Problems"! HA :lol: :lol: :lol: