Fastest Level 2 Charger?

Forgive the silly question...tried searching and got no answer.

Are all level 2 chargers the same in terms of charge time? It looks like 4 hours is the norm, but is there one that does it in 2 or 3 hours?

Thanks

The actual charger that takes power from the grid and puts it in the battery is part of the car. The device that hangs on the wall and that you plug into your car is called an EVSE(Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment), and it is just a glorified extension cord/connector to get grid power safely to the car. They are rated by how much power they allow the car to take. A Leaf can only take 27.5A at the most, so if you get a 30A EVSE, your Leaf will charge as fast as possible. Some Leafs charge more slowly- older(2011-2012) ones as well as newer(2013+) ones without the "Charge Package" and lowest trim level.

nedfunnell said:

The actual charger that takes power from the grid and puts it in the battery is part of the car. The device that hangs on the wall and that you plug into your car is called an EVSE(Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment), and it is just a glorified extension cord/connector to get grid power safely to the car. They are rated by how much power they allow the car to take. A Leaf can only take 27.5A at the most, so if you get a 30A EVSE, your Leaf will charge as fast as possible. Some Leafs charge more slowly- older ones and newer ones without the "Charge Package" and lowest trim level.

Click to expand...

thanks. so a 48amp EVSE isn't going to charge it any faster? Just so I'm clear, level 1 is roughly 8 hours, level 2 is roughly 4 hours and level 3 is about 80% in 30 minutes?

Is there a level 4 charger in the works? Are level 3 Evse's too expensive for average joe's like me?

thanks again for the reply, nedfunnel

6yearstilbreakeven said:

thanks. so a 48amp EVSE isn't going to charge it any faster?

Click to expand...

Basically yeah. I mean, you could have 16amp EVSE, and that would charge a newer leaf slower than it could take. But a 30/40/48 amp EVSE will all charge all Leafs as fast as they can take it..

6yearstilbreakeven said:

Just so I'm clear, level 1 is roughly 8 hours, level 2 is roughly 4 hours and level 3 is about 80% in 30 minutes?

Click to expand...

Almost. From Empty:
Level 1, 20+ hours.
Level 2, 4 hours for newer Leafs and 8 hours for older Leafs.
DCQC, 30 minutes to 80%, then another 30 for the final 20% about...

6yearstilbreakeven said:

Is there a level 4 charger in the works? Are level 3 Evse's too expensive for average joe's like me?

Click to expand...

I think (I'm a bit foggy on this one too, that there isn't technically a Level 3. Level 1 and 2 (AC charging) and then DCQC (DC Quick Charge, or is it DCFC DC Fast Charge. I've heard both).

Oh, and I believe yes for the cost of the DCQC..

You can get faster Level 2 technically tho. There are people who add BRUSA (sp?) chargers to their Leafs so they can charge faster with Level 2 (or get an older Leaf to charge at newer Leaf speeds or faster with Level 2). But I think that's a pretty involved mod that involves messing with tricky stuff..
And that's where that 48amp EVSE might come in handy.

desiv

nedfunnell said:

The actual charger that takes power from the grid and puts it in the battery is part of the car. The device that hangs on the wall and that you plug into your car is called an EVSE(Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment), and it is just a glorified extension cord/connector to get grid power safely to the car. They are rated by how much power they allow the car to take. A Leaf can only take 27.5A at the most, so if you get a 30A EVSE, your Leaf will charge as fast as possible. Some Leafs charge more slowly- older(2011-2012) ones as well as newer(2013+) ones without the "Charge Package" and lowest trim level.

Click to expand...

Yep. Lowest trim (S) of 2013+ w/o "charge package" get a 3.x kW OBC.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; may help the OP.

6yearstilbreakeven said:

nedfunnell said:

The actual charger that takes power from the grid and puts it in the battery is part of the car. The device that hangs on the wall and that you plug into your car is called an EVSE(Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment), and it is just a glorified extension cord/connector to get grid power safely to the car. They are rated by how much power they allow the car to take. A Leaf can only take 27.5A at the most, so if you get a 30A EVSE, your Leaf will charge as fast as possible. Some Leafs charge more slowly- older ones and newer ones without the "Charge Package" and lowest trim level.

Click to expand...

thanks. so a 48amp EVSE isn't going to charge it any faster? Just so I'm clear, level 1 is roughly 8 hours, level 2 is roughly 4 hours and level 3 is about 80% in 30 minutes?

Is there a level 4 charger in the works? Are level 3 Evse's too expensive for average joe's like me?

thanks again for the reply, nedfunnel

Click to expand...

Right- the advantage of the higher-capacity EVSE would be for other, future cars that can charge faster. Certain Teslas can use all 48A right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if the recently-teased 200-mile Bolt were able to as well. A 48A EVSE would be more "futureproof". The numbers you've given are about right for a Leaf, although L1 would take longer for a completely empty car.

Yes, Level 3s are too expensive for home use. They cost more than a Leaf does, and your house's electrical service couldn't support it. Level 4 is not being discussed, to my knowledge. The standard for level 3 charging in the US is currently undergoing a kind of VHS/Betamax fight between Chademo and CCS. Chademo is much more widespread but only used by Nissan, Kia, and Mitsubishi, and supplies up to 50kW. CCS is used by the Germans and is seeing slow adoption by US manufacturers, but allows up to about 100kW power. We'll see who wins.

6yearstilbreakeven said:

Is there a level 4 charger in the works? Are level 3 Evse's too expensive for average joe's like me?

thanks again for the reply, nedfunnel

Click to expand...

Level X is just slang, there is no official Level anything but the slang goes something like

Level 1 = 120v or thereabouts depending on the country you are in (100v to about 127v)
Level 2 = 208v or 240v or pretty much anything between
Level 3 = anything above 300v AC or DC varies by company more than country

in slang terms there is no Level 4 since Level 3 is already unlimited.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for more if you want to know exact ranges by country

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charging_station" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for technical definitions but note they don't match the slang.

dhanson865 said:

6yearstilbreakeven said:

Is there a level 4 charger in the works? Are level 3 Evse's too expensive for average joe's like me?

thanks again for the reply, nedfunnel

Click to expand...

Level X is just slang, there is no official Level anything but the slang goes something like

Level 1 = 120v or thereabouts depending on the country you are in (100v to about 127v)
Level 2 = 208v or 240v or pretty much anything between
Level 3 = anything above 300v AC or DC varies by company more than country

in slang terms there is no Level 4 since Level 3 is already unlimited.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for more if you want to know exact ranges by country

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charging_station" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for technical definitions but note they don't match the slang.

Click to expand...

Whoa there, not quite. There is a fundamental difference between L1/2 and L3. L1/2 just supply AC grid power to the car's onboard charger, and I can the difference between L1 and L2 being mostly in name. L3, though, is an entirely different animal wherein an off-board high-power charger is using high-speed communication with the car about how much DC current it supplies to the car with direct access to the battery and connection. It's an entirely different approach.

dhanson865 said:

6yearstilbreakeven said:

Is there a level 4 charger in the works? Are level 3 Evse's too expensive for average joe's like me?

thanks again for the reply, nedfunnel

Click to expand...

Level X is just slang, there is no official Level anything but the slang goes something like

Level 1 = 120v or thereabouts depending on the country you are in (100v to about 127v)
Level 2 = 208v or 240v or pretty much anything between
...

Click to expand...

Level 1 and 2 are officially defined at http://www.sae.org/smartgrid/chargingprimer.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

My home BLINK EVSE is wired into 40 amp circuit breakers. Do I get a full 40 amps at the J1772 plug or only part of the amperage? Thanks, Pat

Turnover said:

My home BLINK EVSE is wired into 40 amp circuit breakers. Do I get a full 40 amps at the J1772 plug or only part of the amperage? Thanks, Pat

Click to expand...

For safety, the electrical code requires that the maximum continuous load be limited to 80 percent of the circuit's rating. So your BLINK should be "telling" your LEAF that there are 32 amps (or less) available. 32 amps would be the maximum but the EVSE may be rated for less. For example, I could plug my EVSE into your 40A circuit and it would tell the LEAF that there are 16 amps available.

It's the car that actually determines the charge rate. It will charge at its maximum rate, or the rate announced by the EVSE, whichever is less. This behavior is part of the J1772 standard.

nedfunnell said:

... is an entirely different animal wherein an off-board high-power charger is using high-speed communication with the car about how much DC current it supplies to the car with direct access to the battery and connection.

Click to expand...

Is the communication speed higher than "Level 1" and "Level 2"? Really? This is all getting silly.

And speaking of silly, who else here thinks "EVSE" is the stupidest acronym ever created?

• Me: Hey Joe, would you grab my EVSE and put it in the car for me?
  Joe: Your what?
  Me: Oh, sorry, my Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment -- right there on that chair. Please?
  Joe: I only see one thing here.
  Me: Yeah, that's it.
  Joe: But it's only one unit. It sounded like you were asking for a collection of items.
  Me: Let's not argue semantics... just grab my EVSE and let's get rolling!
  Joe: Your what?

LOL

Nubo said:

Turnover said:

My home BLINK EVSE is wired into 40 amp circuit breakers. Do I get a full 40 amps at the J1772 plug or only part of the amperage? Thanks, Pat

Click to expand...

For safety, the electrical code requires that the maximum continuous load be limited to 80 percent of the circuit's rating. So your BLINK should be "telling" your LEAF that there are 32 amps (or less) available. For example, I could plug my EVSE into your 40A circuit and it would tell the LEAF that there are 16 amps available.

It's the car that actually determines the charge rate. It will charge at its maximum rate, or the rate announced by the EVSE, whichever is less. This behavior is part of the J1772 standard.

Click to expand...

But you'll want to check your Blink's display (Settings Info -> Device Info -> Maximum Current). The current owners (Car Charging Group) made a decision a few months ago to push an over-the-air change to ALL residential Blink units which forced them to 24 amps maximum. This was due to the poorly-made Rema J1772 cable supplied with most Blinks, which tended to overheat (and melt the J1772 connector) when used at the full 32 Amp charging level.

There's a couple of threads about this here at MyNissanLEAF.com:

This one from Tony Williams showing what it did to his Rav4.

This thread talks about the de-rating (and the linked post tells how to override it, if you've replaced your cordset (or want to live dangerously)).

Here's the statement from Car Charging Group about what was done (it speaks mostly about the commercial Blink units, but the residental units were also de-rated to 24A max).

Nubo said:

It's the car that actually determines the charge rate. It will charge at its maximum rate, or the rate announced by the EVSE, whichever is less. This behavior is part of the J1772 standard.

Click to expand...

OP can take a look at the section on pilot duty cycle at https://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/J1772Basics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. That's how the EVSE announces.

mbender said:

nedfunnell said:

... is an entirely different animal wherein an off-board high-power charger is using high-speed communication with the car about how much DC current it supplies to the car with direct access to the battery and connection.

Click to expand...

Is the communication speed higher than "Level 1" and "Level 2"? Really? This is all getting silly.

...

Click to expand...

Yes. The car and the L3 charger are exchanging information several times each second about the amount of current flowing into the car over a CANBUS network. J1772 is an analog circuit that doesn't communicate anything, really, after the car has started charging.

https://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/J1772Basics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.chademo.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/pdf/TechnicalWS%282013.02.19%29.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Turnover said:

My home BLINK EVSE is wired into 40 amp circuit breakers. Do I get a full 40 amps at the J1772 plug or only part of the amperage? Thanks, Pat

Click to expand...

If that was all it takes - we'd all have 200 amp breakers

No- the evse will only pull as much as the on board charger allows.

cwerdna said:

dhanson865 said:

6yearstilbreakeven said:

Is there a level 4 charger in the works? Are level 3 Evse's too expensive for average joe's like me?

thanks again for the reply, nedfunnel

Click to expand...

Level X is just slang, there is no official Level anything but the slang goes something like

Level 1 = 120v or thereabouts depending on the country you are in (100v to about 127v)
Level 2 = 208v or 240v or pretty much anything between
...

Click to expand...

Level 1 and 2 are officially defined at http://www.sae.org/smartgrid/chargingprimer.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Click to expand...

and notice how Level 3 isn't mentioned yet thousands of posts on the forums use that term.

You can specify standards for anything, that won't change what people call it.

I'm all for getting people to understand the difference between the charger inside the car, the portable EVSE, the wall mounted EVSE, and the honking big charging station that you have to use a forklift or crane to move but after charger vs evse I'm going to let the rest of the slang land where it is.

Read the hundreds of thousands or millions of posts on

mynissanleaf.com
priuschat.com
teslamotorclub.com

and you'll see Level 3 or Level 3 charging as common terms/phrases. I'd call that slang you might call it something else, but whatever you call it that is the common usage.

The charge rate will be at the LOWEST rated item in the circuit. Designed that way to keep the magic smoke in the wires.

nedfunnell said:

Chademo is much more widespread but only used by Nissan, Kia, and Mitsubishi, and supplies up to 50kW. CCS is used by the Germans and is seeing slow adoption by US manufacturers, but allows up to about 100kW power. We'll see who wins.

Click to expand...

Both CCS and CHAdeMO are designed for 200 amps, and both are currently limited to 125 amps.

Power is a function of battery voltage multiplied by amperage.

The LEAF battery maximum is 395 volts, therefore:

125 * 395 = 49.4kW

200 * 395 = 79.0kW

The "100kW" rate is only possible with a car with a 500 volt battery, of which there are none. Even Tesla is a maximum of 403 volts, and every other car is lower.

*************************************

WORLDWIDE DC Charging Standards:

DC fast charging system standards IEC 61851-23 gives the worldwide requirements for "DC chargers" and provides the general requirements for the control communication between a DC fast charger and an EV.

IEC 62851-24 defines digital communication between a DC fast charger and an EV.

Worldwide "Quick Charging" standards:

1) CHAdeMO (IEC System A)

2) GB/T (IEC System B)

3) SAE CCS COMBO1 (IEC System C)

4) Menekkes CCS COMBO2 (IEC System C)

5) Supercharger (Tesla only, not recognized by IEC, uses different plug in Europe than the plug used in North America and Japan)


Neither GB/T nor Menekkes CCS-Combo2 are offered outside of their home markets of China and Europe respectively. Chameleon is Europe only, anywhere a public 3 phase AC outlet is available (the operator must use their own charge cord).


USA Quick Charge data, sometimes colloquially referred to as "DC" or "L3"

***********

1) CHAdeMO - 5467 Worldwide (6 March 2015)

124 new CHAdeMO chargers added in USA between 9 Jan 2015 and 6 March 2015:

Adding about 2-3 per day in the USA, and 8 per day worldwide !!!

Japan -- now 2819, was 2819 (obviously not updated)
Europe - now 1659, was 1327
USA ---- now 934, was 810
Others - now 55, was 54

5467 Worldwide (6 March 2015)
5010 Worldwide (9 January 2015)

http://www.chademo.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
up to 100kW eventually, currently limited to 62.5kW

The only DC protocol that uses the same plug worldwide

Nissan announced (Dec 2014) that they would increase USA to over 1000 stations by mid-2015, and 6000 total in Japan.

EVs compatible with CHAdeMO include:

*Nissan LEAF - over 75,000 in the USA (19 Mar 2015) and over 160,000 worldwide
*Nissan e-NV200 (coming 2015)
*Citroen C-Zero - not sold in USA
*Citroën Berlingo - not sold in USA
*Honda hydrogen car (used for Vehicle to Home/Grid only)
*Mitsubishi i-MiEV - over 30,000 worldwide with its variants C-Zero & iON
*Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (coming 2016)
*Mitsubishi Fuso Canter truck
*Peugeot iON - not sold in USA
*Peugeot Partner - not sold in USA
*Kia Soul EV - 476 (28 Feb 2015)
*ZERO motorcycles
*Tesla (all except Roadster) with Tesla supplied adaptor - 40,000 US sales, 55,000 worldwide (28 Feb 2015)
*Toyota Mirai hydrogen car (used for Vehicle to Home/Grid only)
*Toyota RAV4 EV with "JdeMO" from Quick Charge Power

***************

2) GB/T - China only, not offered in USA

***************

3) SAE CCS Combo1, or "J1772 DC" - approximately 150 in the USA (and worldwide) as of March 2015
http://standards.sae.org/j1772_201210/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
up to 100kW eventually, probably limited to 25-50kW
Uses a different plug in Europe (Menekkes CCS Combo2) than the plug used in USA

EVs compatible include (note: not all sold cars are physically equipped with CCS port):

*GM Spark EV - 1,889 US sales cars (adding about 50-100 per month in three CARB-ZEV states only)
*BMW i3 - 7,851 US sales (28 Feb 2015)
*VW eGolf - 668 US sales (28 Feb 2015)

***********

4) Menekkes CCS Combo2, Europe only, not offered in the USA

***********

5) Supercharger - 396 stations worldwide with
396 Supercharger stations with 2,167 Supercharger charge points, each with 2-14 stalls at each station, growing fast

6 March 2015 - Total USA:
Stations - 171
Charge points - 1139

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
up to 135kW, cars currently limited to 120kW

Uses a different plug in Europe than the one used in North America and Japan

EVs compatible with Supercharger include:

*Tesla only, except Roadster - 40,000 US sales, 55,000 worldwide (28 Feb 2015)

nedfunnell said:

mbender said:

nedfunnell said:

... is an entirely different animal wherein an off-board high-power charger is using high-speed communication with the car about how much DC current it supplies to the car with direct access to the battery and connection.

Click to expand...

Is the communication speed higher than "Level 1" and "Level 2"? Really? This is all getting silly.

...

Click to expand...

Yes. The car and the L3 charger are exchanging information several times each second about the amount of current flowing into the car over a CANBUS network. J1772 is an analog circuit that doesn't communicate anything, really, after the car has started charging.

https://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/J1772Basics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.chademo.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/pdf/TechnicalWS%282013.02.19%29.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click to expand...

J1772 is constantly sending a maximum charge rate signal over the pilot pin. If that signals stops, the charge stops.