Might be Ready to Jump Back In

I'm a little worked into a frenzy over the pending loss of the 5k Ga tax credit for a Leaf, and thinking about buying another.

We had a 2013. Did Nissan make any major changes to the batteries from 2013 to 2015 that would make them last longer? I thought I read somewhere that they changed the software for charging times (not letting them charge to full capacity?). Thanks

6yearstilbreakeven said:

I'm a little worked into a frenzy over the pending loss of the 5k Ga tax credit for a Leaf, and thinking about buying another.

We had a 2013. Did Nissan make any major changes to the batteries from 2013 to 2015 that would make them last longer? I thought I read somewhere that they changed the software for charging times (not letting them charge to full capacity?). Thanks

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2015 is supposed to have new battery chemistry (dubbed Lizard batteries) that are supposedly better in hitter climates. Not enough time and data yet for actual results.

6yearstilbreakeven said:

We had a 2013.

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What happened?

Did Nissan make any major changes to the batteries from 2013 to 2015 that would make them last longer?

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Yes. Change in battery chemistry. Some anicdotal results are posted here:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17459&start=180" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19387" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought I read somewhere that they changed the software for charging times (not letting them charge to full capacity?). Thanks

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Haven't seen that theory postulated before.

I believe the 13's we the last to have the charge to 80% option. I know our 13 has that option, I believe the 15's don't. For better or worse...

My understanding the battery change over happened sometime very late 13's or 14's

DanCar said:

6yearstilbreakeven said:

We had a 2013.

Click to expand...

What happened?

Did Nissan make any major changes to the batteries from 2013 to 2015 that would make them last longer?

Click to expand...

Yes. Change in battery chemistry. Some anicdotal results are posted here:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17459&start=180" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19387" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought I read somewhere that they changed the software for charging times (not letting them charge to full capacity?). Thanks

Click to expand...

Haven't seen that theory postulated before.

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our 2013 was bought back by Nissan under the lemon law. The heater refused to work...which I believe is an issue that's been fixed.

thanks for that data, DanCar....utterly impressive.

I thunked the reason they had the 80% charge option was because "toping up" harmed the battery (I really have no clue). I also thunked (I might have been drinking when I thought I read this) they did a 2014 software update that eliminated the 80% option, but somewhat limited the owners ability to reach full charge.

thanks again for those threads...great reading.

Nissan eliminated the 80% charging option for one reason: To scam the EPA range estimate. It allowed them to have a higher number even though nothing had really changed...

6yearstilbreakeven said:

I thunked the reason they had the 80% charge option was because "toping up" harmed the battery (I really have no clue). I also thunked (I might have been drinking when I thought I read this) they did a 2014 software update that eliminated the 80% option, but somewhat limited the owners ability to reach full charge.

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TomT said:

Nissan eliminated the 80% charging option for one reason: To scam the EPA range estimate. It allowed them to have a higher number even though nothing had really changed...

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I look at that exactly the opposite way. Nissan was being hosed in the EPA range estimate since they were being limited to the 80% number. A competitors car with the same actual full battery range would rate higher than the LEAF due because of the LEAF having an 80% charging option. The EPA rules effectively forced Nissan to remove the setting, and thus the new model owners lost a somewhat useful feature.

adspguy said:

TomT said:

Nissan eliminated the 80% charging option for one reason: To scam the EPA range estimate. It allowed them to have a higher number even though nothing had really changed...

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I look at that exactly the opposite way. Nissan was being hosed in the EPA range estimate since they were being limited to the 80% number. A competitors car with the same actual full battery range would rate higher than the LEAF due because of the LEAF having an 80% charging option. The EPA rules effectively forced Nissan to remove the setting, and thus the new model owners lost a somewhat useful feature.

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+0.5. Nissan could have offered a range of max. charge settings like Tesla, which the EPA didn't feel the need to average. As it was, the only cars to suffer from lower EPA range due to the range averaging were the LEAF and RAV4.

I thought it was because there was zero evidence it did any good. If it doesn't make the battery last any longer what's the point of having the added user confusion. EV drivers have enough to worry about already.

Agree with adspguy.

LTLFTcomposite said:

I thought it was because there was zero evidence it did any good. If it doesn't make the battery last any longer

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Unfortunately, Nissan's given us no proof of that. Saying it doesn't hurt to go to 100% (or the near 100% Nissan uses) is contrary to literature I've seen on li-ion (admittedly a different variant) like http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. And it contradicts what Nissan had warned us about all along, prior to removing the feature (w/the '14 model year).

Here's some copy paste from my '13 Leaf manual (page EV-24):
"To maximize vehicle range, NISSAN recommends
using the default setting, long distance
mode (100% charge). To maximize the battery’s
useful life, use the following driving and charging
habits where possible:
...
• Avoid sustained high battery state of charge
(caused, for example, by frequently charging to
100% state of charge and/or leaving the battery
above 80% state of charge for long periods of
time).
• Allow the battery charge to be below at least
80% before charging."

And on page CH-26, in reference to the long life mode (limit to 80%) setting "Use the long life mode to help maximize the Li-ion battery useful life."

But yes, I'd imagine the primary reason is to look more competitive against other vehicles not hobbled by the stupid 80% averaging "rule": http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=416986#p416986" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. If it were only a level playing field where either EVERYONE was hit by that or nobody was...

The manual was written with whatever they thought the best practices were at the time. When it later turned out to not matter (since early leafers were really just testers) they didn't go back and say oh by the way we were wrong, they just change it going forward.

Yeah, I can't tell you how many people commented here that they charged to 80% and still had capacity loss. So I don't think it really helped any.

True, but we don't know how much WORSE it might have been if it had been 100% all the time...

adric22 said:

Yeah, I can't tell you how many people commented here that they charged to 80% and still had capacity loss. So I don't think it really helped any.

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TomT said:

True, but we don't know how much WORSE it might have been if it had been 100% all the time...

adric22 said:

Yeah, I can't tell you how many people commented here that they charged to 80% and still had capacity loss. So I don't think it really helped any.

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And we don't know how much BETTER it might have been either..
Actually, there are people who believe that "exercising" that battery will extend the range...

I think at this time, without actual testing, the best we can go by is the anecdotal evidence of users that appear to show that it, at least, isn't as damaging as it was initially thought it might be.
Much like frequent fast charging.

Over time, it is looking like the thing that is affecting battery life the most for the Nissan Leaf is (shock) the temperature.

desiv

Absolutely. I babied my 2011. Never charged to 100%, never quick charged, charged early in the morning a few hours before driving, kept the car under the carport, and lost a bar at 6,771 miles. Now I lease a 2015 and don't worry about a thing.

I don't think charging to 100% makes a difference on the 2015 models. I think it more has to do with how long it sits at 100% and also whether or not you top off the charge. When we first got our 2015, my wife was plugging in at 8:00AM at work, car was fully charged by 10:30 or so and it would sit all day at 100%, she'd also do little lunch runs, and then plug back in to top off, which the dealer said to avoid. We say some health numbers drop in leaf stat during that time, so we totally swapped our habits. Now we hardly charge at home, she leaves in the morning with about 65%, gets to work with about 35%, lets it sit until after lunch, plugs in at around 1:00PM, car is at 100% by about 4:30, drives home a little after that and we repeat the next day. With this process we cycle through the battery from 35%-100% on a daily basis, almost never use our home charger, but instead charge at work (thanks Apple!) and all of the numbers on the battery have increased since we've been doing this (about 2-3 months now).

Cycle it through, don't top off, don't let it sit at 100% for long period of time and the battery does just fine.