CARWINGS Ends December 31st 2016

I took my Leaf to the dealership for some standard maintenance today. While I was waiting, I looked at the new Leaf sitting on the lot and saw this:

It was news to me that CARWINGS had a date certain for death in my 2011 Leaf. It seems even worse that they are still selling new cars that use a network that is destined to be shutdown.

Anyone know what Nissan is planning?

I use my smartphone for navigation and EVSE locating (and music streaming and Leaf Spy battery monitoring...), so I don't need much from CarWings. And since I don't use it much, I am not willing to pay much (if anything) for "equipment upgrade" or service plan fees.

The only thing I use CarWings for is to occasionally preheat the car in the winter. The map in my nav system is several years out of date, I thought a connected car with CarWings service would keep this up to date, but it has not.

I recently heard Carlos Ghosn in an interview say that Gen-Y has an expectation of connectivity and Nissan has to provide this in future cars. So it sounds like they have something in mind (eventually).

I started a thread here when I figured out what last millennium technology Nissan was using (and there were many before me apparently): http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17099" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is a major letdown. I use Carwings all the time. I expect when I purchase a connected car for it to continue to be connected, not be slated for planned obsolescence. Nissan completely dropped the ball here. 2G is ridiculously oldschool and any modern modem IC has 2G, 3G, 4G (i.e. HSDPA+ 3.5G) built in. Then for more money you can get the ones with 4G LTE in them. But to select an IC that only accepts 2G is just stupid.

This is seriously a feature that if it dies and no replacement from Nissan at a reasonable price (sub-$300 cost IMHO) then the entire car will be scrapped and I will just buy a Tesla.

I'm working on a replacement.

Details in January.

Edit: The replacement will use T-Mobile.

I can sort of understand making the mistake in the 2011 model year, but to sell a 2015 model with a significant feature that will only have 12 months of functionality is pretty appalling.

It would be really appropriate to put in both a 3G/4G radio as well as a WiFi connection. WiFi would let me link it to my home and work networks as a pretty darn long term solution. I see a lot more of this on the horizon as more and more techno-crap ends up in cars. Presently my 11 year old truck has a useless tape player, and a near useless CD player (used about 3-4 years ago at best).

It is yet another reminder that once you sign the check, the loyalty is gone*. When parts are available car manufacturers price them more like art or medical supplies than simple car parts. Heck, a key fob should be $20-30, but they charge you as much as a pair of tires.

*not applicable to Tesla thus far

Moof said:

I can sort of understand making the mistake in the 2011 model year, but to sell a 2015 model with a significant feature that will only have 12 months of functionality is pretty appalling.

Click to expand...

Just to be clear, At&T is slated to terminate 2G service on December 31 2016 so that's 24 months, but I completely agree, Carwings will cease to function while the car is still under warranty. How many uninformed people will be bringing their car in for warranty repair because Carwings has stopped working. One more reason for dealers to hate the car.

For Canadians, looks like we should be able to continue using Carwings until 2018.

Canadian carrier, Rogers, is looking to support 2G until 2018

Click to expand...

from :http://www.androidauthority.com/verizons-2g-3g-cdma-networks-out-by-2021-121694/

AT&T (the largest GSM carrier in North America) has announced that it will discontinue 2G service entirely by 2017. Rogers in Canada will only commit to continuing 2G support until 2018.

Click to expand...

from:http://www.richardsonrfpd.com/resources/RellDocuments/SYS_30/Whitepaper-Dont_Fear_the_Future.pdf

I imagine they may still be playing a waiting game. Will AT&T really terminate the protocol by 2017? Maybe it will be extended. From what I've seen, Nissan seem to play their cards close to the chest and don't do or say things until it's absolutely necessary.

I wonder how much an update would cost? I think it would be boneheaded to not provide one to any vehicles under warranty. It would raise issues of false advertising, seems to me...

Nubo said:

I imagine they may still be playing a waiting game. Will AT&T really terminate the protocol by 2017? Maybe it will be extended. From what I've seen, Nissan seem to play their cards close to the chest and don't do or say things until it's absolutely necessary.

I wonder how much an update would cost? I think it would be boneheaded to not provide one to any vehicles under warranty. It would raise issues of false advertising, seems to me...

Click to expand...

AT&T will most likely not extend their shutdown date. AT&T plans to recapture the 2G spectrum for 3G and 4G tech. This means 2G will cease to function and 3G/4G devices will get a boost in reliability, speed if crowding is an issue, and signal strength.

Sprint did the same thing with their iDEN network a couple years ago I think (?). They lost 40% of their machine-to-machine customers. We'll see if AT&T can do better. I think right now GM is also on AT&T's legacy 2G network for M2M connections. I seem to recall 4-5 years ago that some of the highway signs are also on GSM networks run by a company that contracts out over AT&T.

T-Mobile has no current plans to shut down their 2g network.

While it's nice to see at least one person (JeremyW) is working on a 3rd party replacement, I don't expect Nissan to abandon the platform. I expect one of two options:
1) An up front "paid in full" modem replacement (possibly LTE) that will include a "lifetime" subscription to CW
2) A "free" modem replacement if you sign up for a (new) CW subscription on a monthly/yearly basis (similar to what they originally said would happen after 3 years...until they realized the 2G technology they chose to use was going bye-bye)

Bottom line: I don't expect the telematics (CW) function to become useless on our Leafs.

JeremyW said:

T-Mobile has no current plans to shut down their 2g network.

Click to expand...

I am sure they do. It is just not public yet. It is getting harder and harder to cram all the data into such narrow bands of the spectrum. TMobile will eventually chop up their 2G network as well and use it for 3G/4G/5G/6G whatever. It is not a matter of if, but when.

However since it is a pretty basic SMS type situation, any SIM card inserted into the slot should be able to work as long as it was activated properly. However I would bypass that and use a standard SIM card with a standard 4G LTE modem.

Is it correct that the modem is a replaceable part?

Based on these two articles, it looks likt AT&T and Nissan will have some telematics product in the future. If the Leaf gets to play is the question...

Carrier Wrap: AT&T to power Nissan telematics
http://www.rcrwireless.com/20130718/carriers/carrier-wrap-at-leap-updates-muve-music-service" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


AT&T snags OnStar deal from Verizon Wireless
http://www.rcrwireless.com/20130225/carriers/att-snags-onstar-deal-verizon-wireless" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm concerned, but not distressed...yet....

Yogi62 said:

Is it correct that the modem is a replaceable part?

Based on these two articles, it looks likt AT&T and Nissan will have some telematics product in the future. If the Leaf gets to play is the question...

Carrier Wrap: AT&T to power Nissan telematics
http://www.rcrwireless.com/20130718/carriers/carrier-wrap-at-leap-updates-muve-music-service" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click to expand...

Not so sure that particular AT&T announcement would help the Leaf, but that still doesn't mean there won't be some sort of modem upgrade offer around AT&T service (since they obviously have the existing agreement with Nissan). While I don't have any "inside" info, based on my experience in the industry, I think we can assume T-Mobile will be de-commissioning their 2G network just like everyone else. However, I still wouldn't worry about an alternate solution/option for the reasons outlined in my earlier post.

the problem is not carwings in the car but carwings ONLINE. when you talk to the car your NOT TALKING to the car. your talking to NISSAN WWW and THEY are talking to the car.

so even if you replace it with tmobile if NISSAN closes the ONLINE portal that actually talks to the car your data connections becomes "Moot"

what irkes the hell out of me is WHY does it not have WIFI. at least then I could still check charge and pre heat cool from home. Grrrrr.

Very annoying.

Asking as a new owner, 8 days, of used 2013 SL with Bose/all Around Monitor trim, what features go away if Carwings ends? I have it set up and working fine. I have not seen any data on-line yet, but I have seen posts indicating some start up delay. I like the remote status and charge abilities. I would like to see data, but it is not that big a deal.

??? Impacts to:
Charging stations
Navigation updates
Other software over the air updates
Anything else?

My assumption is Navigation operation, XM and direct/timed charging operations themselves do not rely on Carwings? Correct?

I saw this same warning about the possible 2016 demise of Carwings functions when I recently added Leaf 2 to my home fleet. If it is true that T-Mobile is not turning off 2g frequencies or repurposing them or maintaining better backwards compatibility or whatever then that is great news. There is already a place in the software to switch carriers... since the AT&T GSM network shares frequencies with the T-Mobile net no hardware should need upgrading. Hopefully Nissan corporate will negotiate a great new contract with T-Moby and tell us all to flip the switch in software after a certain date to continue using CARWINGS. If they simply agree with them to port all our sims over it should be do able. I would also be willing to add the car to my existing sim collection on my family account at Tmoby. The data amounts are likely trivial compared to my families You Tube addictions.

Hopefully the next gen of telematics will include WiFi and 4g or GSM+ or whatever is a good deal. Local in car Tethering in the car would also be awesome for the kiddies ( like me) who play with their tablets and nintendo games in the car while charging. Or set up a system where my cell phone would tether to car telematics so the costs would be bundled into my existing cell phone bill.

I believe that the car does not have a phone type SIM card, but a special
machine-to-machine access number. Perhaps these access numbers can
be ported to another G2 carrier, but presumably some adjustments are necessary
at the Nissan Carwings Server end, and at the car end, to access another carrier?

mjblazin said:

Asking as a new owner, 8 days, of used 2013 SL with Bose/all Around Monitor trim, what features go away if Carwings ends? I have it set up and working fine. I have not seen any data on-line yet, but I have seen posts indicating some start up delay. I like the remote status and charge abilities. I would like to see data, but it is not that big a deal.

??? Impacts to:
Charging stations
Navigation updates
Other software over the air updates
Anything else?

My assumption is Navigation operation, XM and direct/timed charging operations themselves do not rely on Carwings? Correct?

Click to expand...

Correct. Those features do not go away without Carwings.

For me, the most valuable feature from Carwings is the ability to start the heat remotely.
The second most valuable feature from Carwings is email saying that charge stopped.
A distant third is the ability to check how many miles I drove each day using a web browser.

Nissan doesn't do software over the air. Nissan doesn't do Navigation updates over the air either. I'm not sure how the Charging Station list is updated, but my guess is that it is independent of Carwings, too.

Bob

Bob said:

I'm not sure how the Charging Station list is updated, but my guess is that it is independent of Carwings, too.

Click to expand...

Actually, the Charging Station list IS done via the cellular link. Not sure if it's part of Carwings or not, but when the cellular link goes away, Charging Station updates will too.

I just wish they were not so greedy. Greed is the only reason not to include a wifi connection.

While not as convenient as cellular it would permit some wireless operation.

garygid said:

I believe that the car does not have a phone type SIM card, but a special
machine-to-machine access number.

Click to expand...

I think it's pretty similar..
Someone already took the SIM card out and plugged it into a phone..

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3316" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

desiv