Time charge using the 2015 S Leaf

Got the car about 3 weeks ago from the supply available at a Nissan dealer. I am more than satisfied and happy with it. Could go on for many paragraphs on all the pluses. The problem here in Maine is the lack of charge stations.

There is one thing that I do not know how to do. Both the big and little manuals disagree with one another and with the car in the setting of the charge timer. I pressed the timer button and was given two choices, turn it on or off and a time setting. I set it to on and entered 7:00 am. Using the 110 V system I started charging at 8:00 pm knowing the charge would not reach the end by seven in the morning. The system was still charging past that time. The entered time does not seem to be either a start or end time. Any ideas?

Bob

It is an end timer but only if it actually has enough time to finish by the allotted time. Otherwise, it will continue charging. The timer is far more useful on a L2 EVSE than a L1...

boba said:

The entered time does not seem to be either a start or end time. Any ideas?

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Then it is a totally useless function as the same thing happens whether it is on or off. With it off charging continues until the battery is full and then it automatically shuts down. Looks like the best thing to do is go to Radio Shack and buy a timer. Thanks for the information.

Bob

boba said:

Then it is a totally useless function as the same thing happens whether it is on or off. With it off charging continues until the battery is full and then it automatically shuts down. Looks like the best thing to do is go to Radio Shack and buy a timer. Thanks for the information.

Bob

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That might not be what it going on. When you set the timer, did you also turn the timer "on"? It can be on or off without changing the set end-time. If "off" the car will charge whenever plugged-in, regardless of the set end-time.

I suggest that you try it again.

The way the end timer works is that you set the time you want charging to complete. You then plug in the car and it will delay the start of charging if needed to make the charging complete at the requested time. (Experience says that they are conservative and the charging completes about an hour before the requested time.)
It sounds like your charge was low enough that there was not enough time to finish charging with the level 1 EVSE. (It takes 20 hours to charge from empty to full.) hence it kept charging.
As stated above, a level 2 EVSE is useful if you drive a lot.

Assuming the 2015 S has a "state of charge" option for the dash display, use that to show remaining charge, and figure 5% charge will be added per hour with the L-1 unit. Then set the timer accordingly. That will get you close to what you want, and after a few times you'll know how much you need to adjust for the car's inaccurate estimating ability.

Yes the timer was and is in the on position. In fact it turns itself on at some point after I have turned it off. Will try again tonight but have little hope of success. Since it is not capable of turning the charger on, even if it does turn it off, I need both so all charging is limited to 8 pm on and 7 am off so all charging is during off peak hours. An external timer seems like the best solution. Many thanks for all the comments.

If you set the timer, it stays on. You can override it to start charging immediately, but as soon as you unplug the car or start the car, the timer goes back on. I suggest reading the manual to learn more about this function.

I also urge caution in using an external timer that you plug your EVSE into. Make sure it is rated for at least 15A continuous draw (20A preferred). You don't want to start a fire.

Are you trying to charge only during certain off peak hours at night? If your off peak period is 8 hours (for example) then you'll only add at most about 40 miles of range if you're an efficient driver (and fewer miles if you're less efficient and use climate control). If you need more daily range than this, you'll need to charge for a longer period of time or get L2 charging. I suggest L2 charging anyway, since it actually uses a bit less electricity to charge the vehicle. I think the vehicle uses 300W in overhead while it is being charged, so if you charge at L1 for 6 hours from 20% to 50%, you add roughly the same amount to the battery as charging for 1 hour with 6.6kW L2, but the L1 charging has consumed about 1.5kWh more than the L2 charging. Depending on your electricity rates and driving patterns, L2 may or may not be cheaper for you. It's definitely more convenient. I love knowing that I can add 15 miles of range in half an hour if I realize I need more range. And with L2 charging, I can charge from empty to full in about 5-6 hours, which fits entirely inside my 8 hour super off peak electricity pricing period.

The nomenclature of this is pretty confusing. I am not sure what it really buys you, as the stock 120v 12A EVSE is so slow that if the battery is 50-60% depleted, then you already need to charge all night just to get it to 100% by morning. Whether it finishes at 5am or 6am doesn't matter much. And why would you delay the start, if it needs all night to charge?

Once we get our JuiceBox Premium, I think it may have an easier timer to understand. But, since we pay the same price per kWh all day, I don't think it affects us.

forummm et. al.,

I'm reasonably sure I understand how it works thanks to all of you.

1. Make sure the timer is on and set the time to the point that you
want the charging to end (7 a.m. in my case).

2. Then the car computer calculates when to start charging in order to complete the job.

3. If the charging is not complete it will run past the stated time. If it does I'll simply pull the plug at 7.

Unfortunately for me the book did not make this clear, even after reading it several times. This was also true of the Leaf man at the Nissan dealer. With confidence he sat in the car and was unable to understand it. He checked with Nissan and got back to me by leaving a garbled (my phones fault) message. I'll call him tomorrow. By the way the book makes sense now. Incidentally I have owned 11 cars and don't ever remember reading the whole manual in all those 50 years. That changed with the excitement of the Leaf and It was a good read, very enjoyable.

That leaves the subject of a timer. Amazon has one for about $33 that delivers 110 volts at 16 amps which should be able to handle the required 12 amps. The only reason for me getting it now is to limit the charging. What is the current thought of limiting the charge to 80%? I don't remember anything in the book that speaks of that limit except perhaps in using a quick charge. If a limit is necessary, it seems as though Nissan would do it within the car system.

The second use of a timer has to do with living 600 feet above sea level. When the charge is less than 100% in drive B, there is no need to use the brake down the main hill. At less than 100% the brake must be used most of the time.

The final subject is L1 vs. L2. I don't think that the cost of L2 is justified in our situation. There is a dedicated line for 110 but not for 220 so I assume that would make 220 hookup even more costly.

Thanks again!

Bob

boba said:

... 3. If the charging is not complete it will run past the stated time. If it does I'll simply pull the plug at 7...

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I really don't think this is true. I know for a fact that the end-time setting does not work that way on my car, although I suppose it could be different on the 2015 S. I think your impression that the charge progressed past the end-time was an artifact of not having the timer properly turned on or properly set, since the default is "charge until full".

Please do the experiment again. If the timer is properly set and "on" you should see the charging stop at 7 AM — assuming that you have AM and PM correct, if not that would explain the observation — regardless of the charge level of the car. I'd be very surprised if your timer doesn't work this way, but I could be wrong about that.

I certainly may have done it incorrectly but when I reported somewhere above that 7 a.m. had been passed with continuing charging there followed a message saying it was normal for the system. At any rate, next time I need more than 11 hours of charging I'll notice if it continues after 7.

Pretty sure my 15 Leaf S stops charging at the end time though I've only really paid attention to this once. I set my end time for 11:30am and usually unplug around 6:30am. This results in anywhere from an 85-95% charge depending on how low it was when I plugged in the night before. I plugged in one morning at 11:00am only to notice it had turned off not long after. At first I thought I had blown a breaker since I don't usually charge during the day, but that was not the case...

I accidentally found this out this morning. I usually have the end timer set for 7 am and 80% charge, well last night we forgot to plug it in, the first time since we had the car (6 months now) so I plugged it in right away at about 6 am. I checked on it and sure enough at 7 am it stopped charging, I went out and hit the override button and it started charging again. We left about 7:30 with 65% charge.

So at least on our 2013 S the end timer stops it from charging even if it isn't done charging.

boba said:

I certainly may have done it incorrectly but when I reported somewhere above that 7 a.m. had been passed with continuing charging there followed a message saying it was normal for the system. At any rate, next time I need more than 11 hours of charging I'll notice if it continues after 7.

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how many miles per day do you usually drive?

Daily miles traveled averages no more than 35 miles. We have had the car for about a month and things may change particularly if we get more QCs in Maine. Did make one trip of about 120 miles but that trip will probably not happen more than 3 times a year. Bangor (Maine) is the only city I can reach that has a QC. I suspect that a lot more leafs would be sold if every Nissan dealer had one.

I see that there are people on the forum who have over 100,000 miles on their odometers. Is there any summary of how their Leafs are holding up? I get the impression that the car is very well made and that failures are rare.

Bob

I wonder how long before we have fast chargers at 50-75 miles intervals along the major interstates. Ideally they should just put them into existing gas stations/rest areas!

I suspect that it will depend on the State, its density of population, financial situation, the status of the influence of oil companies, etc. Perhaps the Federal Government will do something. There is a group here in Maine at url
http://www.plugshare.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
that gives a lot of information on the state of charging systems available to the public. At least I think it is only available here. It lists a lot of owners of EVs who are willing to share their home systems.

boba said:

The final subject is L1 vs. L2. I don't think that the cost of L2 is justified in our situation. There is a dedicated line for 110 but not for 220 so I assume that would make 220 hookup even more costly.

Thanks again!

Bob

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FYI: Is the line really is dedicated to EV charging? If you wouldn't mind losing it as a 110V outlet, you could just switch it over to 240V using the existing wiring if it is the correct gauge. It's not uncommon at all for 110V outlets to be run with 12ga wire with a 20A breaker. A quick check would be to look in the breaker box- if it's a 20A breaker, then it should be 12 gauge wire. It'd be necessary to pull some wire out of the wall box to be sure. You, or an electrician, could change out the breaker for a 2-pole (240v) one, change out of the receptacle for a suitable one such as a NEMA L6-20R. Then you'd have a handy outlet capable of L2 charging with an EVSEupgrade cable or any other 20A or less L2 EVSE.

I'm not a licensed electrician or lawyer, but I have done my own electrical work, and it's what I'd do if the wiring were right.

nedfunnell said:

boba said:

The final subject is L1 vs. L2. I don't think that the cost of L2 is justified in our situation. There is a dedicated line for 110 but not for 220 so I assume that would make 220 hookup even more costly.

Thanks again!

Bob

Click to expand...

FYI: Is the line really is dedicated to EV charging? If you wouldn't mind losing it as a 110V outlet, you could just switch it over to 240V using the existing wiring if it is the correct gauge. It's not uncommon at all for 110V outlets to be run with 12ga wire with a 20A breaker. A quick check would be to look in the breaker box- if it's a 20A breaker, then it should be 12 gauge wire. It'd be necessary to pull some wire out of the wall box to be sure. You, or an electrician, could change out the breaker for a 2-pole (240v) one, change out of the receptacle for a suitable one such as a NEMA L6-20R. Then you'd have a handy outlet capable of L2 charging with an EVSEupgrade cable or any other 20A or less L2 EVSE.

I'm not a licensed electrician or lawyer, but I have done my own electrical work, and it's what I'd do if the wiring were right.

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This is actually a very valid path... if you're comfortable working in the circuit breaker box. Power down the CB box before working on load breakers. (There's usually one very large breaker near the utility meter - use it.)

If you expect to preheat the car in the winter while plugged in, the heater draws more power than the L1 provides. The heater would draw most of its power from the L1, but some would come out of the battery.

L1 charging is available to get you out of a bind. 120V outlets are everywhere. With these, you can acquire enough charge in an hour to get to a faster charger. Otherwise L1 is generally too slow for practical use.

Get your Leaf trickle charger upgraded, and have a couple adapters to plug into home clothes drier outlets (NEMA 14-20, and 14-30 are common. 14-50 may be available. 10-20 and 10-30 are older standard. The "-xx" refers to the current rating of the outlet.)

Charge Timer:
Off - timer is disabled. Charging starts as soon as the vehicle is plugged in.
On - timer enabled. Can set either or both of start and stop times.
...If end time only is set, the car computes when to start the charge.
...If the set or computed start time has already passed, charging will NOT start until the next day. This could be a problem with L1 charging if the start time occurs before you can plug in at home.

Charge Timer overrride:
When pressed, charge timer is disabled for one plug-in/charge session. Charging starts as soon as vehicle is plugged in. Necessary for charging from public charger network. When unplugged, or charge completes, the charge timer is re-enabled.

Climate Timer:
Off - disabled. No heating.
On - enabled. Set the departure time. The car begins warming about 20 minutes before departure. Power comes from L1+batt / L2 if plugged in.

Timer priority: Select which timer (charge or climate) takes priority.
Charge priority - If timed climate control is running, it is stopped. L1/L2 is dedicated to charging.
Climate priority - If a timed charge is in progress when the climate timer trips, the climate control starts. Climate control powered from L1/L2. If there is excess power from L1/L2, charging continues, otherwise charging stops while power comes from battery.

I have a programmable L2 charger in my garage. I've set it up to not charge weekdays during high rate times (M-F, 3PM-6PM), otherwise charging starts at plug-in. The car always charges (charge timer disabled), but has climate timer enabled for morning departure.

I've had instances when the charge timer prevented charging at a public charger. I was billed for the time I was plugged in, but didn't get any charge. I may not have overridden the charge timer - and it's not always clear to me when the car is actually charging, or just plugged in. Disabling the charge timer resolves this.