Leaf Owners Beware

Did you know that a 40 mile range(city) for a 2011 Leaf with 35,000 miles is within specifications, and is performing as it should?

I purchased my 2011 Nissan Leaf in September of 2012 from Stadium Nissan in Orange,California. I quickly learned that this vehicle was not built for my 69 mile
commute(4.9 KW per Mile), but was able to adapt and make it work until a job change in October of 2013.

My 10 year old son and I were rear ended shortly after our move to Turlock, California. My Nissan Leaf held up very well to being rear ended at 45MPH by a Full Sized Chevy Silverado; as I drove it away and the Chevy was totaled. My son and I both received concussions from the accident, and unfortunately he is still faced with memory loss.

My Leaf was taken to Alfred Matthews Collision Center for repairs, and sent to Central Valley Nissan to have the batteries removed and re-installed before and after the body repairs. The repairs took more than 2 months to complete(the parts were not available in the U.S.), and my Leaf has never been the same. My Leaf will no longer get the 69plus freeway miles that I drove before the accident, and will now only get 40 city miles per charge (3.8 KW per Mile). I have taken my Leaf back to Central Valley Nissan at least 6 times in the last 8 months, and even had one of the two Nissan Leaf mechanics evaluate the issues.

AAA was willing and ready to total my Leaf based on this drastic performance issue, but they were told by Central Valley Nissan and the Leaf mechanic that my Leaf is performing within specifications for a 2011 Leaf with 35,000 miles. I find this hard to believe based on the EPA estimates of 106 city / 92 highway (I am curious if other Leaf owners know that when their vehicle is 3 years old and has 35,000 miles; they will only get 40 miles per charge).

The big issue is that this was not a gradual degradation; it was a sudden decrease in range due to the accident or the handling of the batteries during the repair process.

The LEAF after two to three years of capacity degradation is at best a 40 to 60 mile range vehicle, and in cold weather if you like a heated cabin is more like a 30 to 35 mile range vehicle.

You need to correct the units. It is miles per kWh.

The EPA range estimates are near useless, and it is a shame that anyone uses or quotes these.

But if your range loss was sudden, it would seem that something was done wrong on battery removal / storage / installation.
Possibly left at 100% charge for lengthy period and stored in very hot warehouse?
Possible bad connections when installed?

Has the dealer done the service manual Cell Voltage Loss Inspection (CVLI) test?
If you have android device, ELM Bluetooth adapter, and LEAF Spy Pro you can do the test yourself.

CrumpledLeaf said:

find this hard to believe based on the EPA estimates of 106 city / 92 highway

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Those are virtually useless MPGe figures. EPA range figure for '11 Leaf is 73 miles, on a new un-degraded battery. Other EPA range figures at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=392738#p392738" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Please answer http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=275421#p275421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; here. And yes, please use the correct units (e.g. miles/kWh).

I'd write more but can't right now until much later tonight.

Did they repaint & bake the vehicle with the batteries installed? That would be bad for the pack.

Our 2011 Leaf at 45000 miles still makes the 65 miles RT on Sundays, 50 of them at freeway speed (55-60mph), no heat. My wife gets home with 7-8 miles on the GOM.

Have you even read ONE post on this forum before posting this? :? There are dozens of posts just like yours, claiming a loss of range, but lacking any important details. Do like TimLee said, and get yourself the recommended Bluetooth OBDII dongle and the LeafSpy app to check out the battery yourself. I can tell that you are not even slightly aware of the new, battery capacity warranty that Nissan released June 2013. If your battery degrades to 4 capacity bars lost by 5 years/60,000 miles, Nissan will install a new battery.
FYI: if the repairs to your car took 2 months, it may be that the battery was left in a very low state of charge, which is VERY bad for it. But, proving that will be almost impossible without before and after data.

keydriver:
I have not seen another post that was the same as mine(accident with sudden decrease in range), but will definitely take a look for them. I am well aware of the warranty that Nissan issued as part of the class action settlement, and originally purchased the 8 year 1000,000 mile extended warranty. I showed 12 bars when I was rear ended, and 11 when I picked up the vehicle and am now back to 12 bars. I might not be able to get out of the driveway by the time I reach 8 bars. The batteries were down to two bars when they removed them, and they were stored inside the service center at Central Valley Nissan(Modesto, CA) for two months while the body work was completed. I have pictures of the range before and after the accident, and fortunately have the history from July 2013(before the accident) that shows I was getting 4.9 Miles per kwh.

cwerdna:
I will complete the survey in a few minutes, but am not complaining about the range as much as the sudden decrease in the range after the accident. I was able to drive 69 miles on the 91 freeway in southern California for over a year(with a starting elevation of 1631ft.(Moreno Valley, CA to 27ft.(Carson, CA), and while I drove slower than I would like it all worked and my Leaf is the smoothest car I have ever driven.

camasleaf:
The batteries were removed before they did any body work.

TimLee:
The range loss was immediately following the accident(after the car was returned). Thank you for the correction on the units The maximum cell voltage was 4089 mV and the minimum cell voltage was 4071 mV. The HV battery level is 93% or 16240 Wh. The battery volt is 392.0, battery current +2 and battery temp is 57 degrees.

Thank you for all the feedback!

Since your range loss was significant and noted after accident repairs, I suggest that you have wheel alignment (all 4 wheels) checked carefully along with tire condition. Tire pressure also makes a difference so make sure you are running the same pressure as before the accident for comparison. If the body was twisted in the accident such that the car "crabs" a bit going down the road, the rolling resistance and aerodynamic drag could be significantly increased even if the wheel alignment looks OK on an alignment machine. As others have noted, bad connections in the high-voltage system could also cause problems.

Please post your battery watt-hours after a full 100% charge. If the 16240 Wh quoted in your last post is after a full charge, you have significant degradation that will reduce range.

Gerry

CrumpledLeaf said:

I showed 12 bars when I was rear ended

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If you mean charge bars (not the thin capacity bars) then storing the pack for two months fully charged was probably not good for it, especially if it was in the heat of the summer. :? That said, with capacity loss the gauges get more pessimistic than necessary and leaf spy should help you use the bottom part of the pack. I've had two charge bars lit with about a third of real charge remaining! :shock:

My guess is also after the crash you may have had the back tires replaced and thus they are at ~36 PSI when for best range you should be running something closer to 40-45.

cwerdna said:

Please answer http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=275421#p275421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; here. And yes, please use the correct units (e.g. miles/kWh).

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For some reason, the OP answered the questionnaire over at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=393250#p393250" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; instead of in this thread.

When you say you've run it down to VLBW, you realize that's the 2nd warning, right? The sequence is LBW, VLBW, turtle then dead.

So, you're saying you have a 40 mile range (roundtrip?) on a full charge from 100% (w/a balanced battery) down to VLBW while achieving 3.9 miles/kWh for the the duration of that trip? And, somehow you have all 12 capacity bars? I suspect you have 11 capacity bars (or possibly less) and the 12 is from the BMS not having relearned the condition of the battery yet.

GerryAZ said:

Since your range loss was significant and noted after accident repairs, I suggest that you have wheel alignment (all 4 wheels) checked carefully along with tire condition. Tire pressure also makes a difference so make sure you are running the same pressure as before the accident for comparison. If the body was twisted in the accident such that the car "crabs" a bit going down the road, the rolling resistance and aerodynamic drag could be significantly increased even if the wheel alignment looks OK on an alignment machine. As others have noted, bad connections in the high-voltage system could also cause problems.

Please post your battery watt-hours after a full 100% charge. If the 16240 Wh quoted in your last post is after a full charge, you have significant degradation that will reduce range.

Gerry

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I would focus more on the drop of mile/kwhr than on the state of the battery. If you are now getting 3.8 and can only go 40miles then you are using only around 10.53 kwhr. When new you should have had about 22 available and you said that it shows you have 16.24kwhr now. So pre accident you should have been able to go 79 miles on that battery at 4.9 and post you should be able to go 61 miles at 3.8.

A few things to check would be a wheel alignment, brakes and wheel bearings. Jack up the rear and spin them yourself, see if all four spin the same.

Tires (did they replace them with a non LRR model?) and pressure. They may have re set all four and they may have set the pressure hot, not cold. Make sure you set it cold, pump them up 10psi higher than what you want, wait all night then let air out of them first thing in the am before the sun is up until you're at what you want. If you had a good tech who set your car up right (or even a few psi over) with nitorgen the pressure wouldn't have changed much as you drove it. It's possible the collision shop reset all 4 after they were heated up at a default 30-32psi without checking the cars specs. If you want more range go up to 44 and see the magic it will do.

If you want to check all that and know anyone else with a leaf you can do a side by side coast down test. Find a section of empty straight flat road, get up to about 40 and put it in neutral at the same spot. The 2 cars should stop within feet of each other. Do it side by side or 1 at a time and do a few.

Are all the aero panels under the car still there and on tight? This shouldn't change your city range or miles/kwhr much but it could be a bunch of small things that are adding up and it could be a huge hit on the a small highway portion that brings an overall avg down.

Weight. You had some aluminum panels in your car stock. The new cars lost weight so they ditched the aluminum and went all steel. The body shop could have used newer cheaper steel. I don't know what panels they were so you'd have to check with someone who has an older model. It's easy to test with a magnet.

minispeed said:

You have some aluminum panels in your car. The new cars lost weight so they ditched the aluminum and went all steel. I don't know what panels they were so you'd have to check with someone who has an older model. It's easy to test with a magnet.

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Doors (entire door, not just the skins), hood, charge port cover.

CrumpledLeaf said:

AAA was willing and ready to total my Leaf based on this drastic performance issue, but they were told by Central Valley Nissan and the Leaf mechanic that my Leaf is performing within specifications for a 2011 Leaf with 35,000 miles.

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This is pretty bad. To make such a claim for a vehicle which still had at least 11 bars is ridiculous, particularly when the weather is not cold.

From the entire discussion, it seems that the battery was on the edge of losing the 12th capacity bar when it was wrecked. Then that was lost while the battery was out of the car. Then when you had range issues, the Nissan dealer likely reset the BMS, so it will take a few months for it to re-learn the capacity of the battery.

As others have mentioned, it appears that your real issue is you have significantly more loss *somewhere* than before the wreck.

If I were you, I would call Nissan at 1-877-NOGASEV and explain the situation to them and ask them to reverse the poor decision made by the dealership.

Good luck!

cwerdna:

I am sorry; I am new to posting on this or any forum...I run it until I get the audible "low battery" message which is around 8-12 miles remaining on the display. I had 12 bars when the accident occurred(October 24, 2013), and 11 bars when I picked it up in January 2014. I have taken it back to the dealer at least 6 times from January until May; they reset the vehicle, and told me that it had to relearn again and to give it a month or so. The 12th bar came back within that "test" month, but the range did not increase. I was at 2.8 miles per kwh, and it has now leveled off at 3.9 miles per kwh.

GerryAZ:

I have been suspicious of this because when I first picked up the vehicle after the accident it pulled hard to the right, I took it back immediately and they sent it for a 4 wheel alignment. I got the vehicle back a few days later, and it still pulled hard to the right; they sent it to another shop and when I got it back a few days later i had to turn the wheel about 25 degrees to the left to drive straight. I took it back, and did a ride along with the mechanic; he observed the same thing and again it was sent off to have a 4 wheel alignment. I got it back a few days later, and was told that they did not center the steering wheel when they did the alignment. AAA sent it to another body shop, and the report came back that the frame is straight...Can you tell me where to find the battery watt hours? And yes; 16240 is at 100% charge.

JeremyW:

The tires were not replaced, and I am going to try the Leaf Spy later today

minispeed:

I will try to jack it up when I get home tonight; they did not replace the tires.

RegGuheert:

Thank You; I have called the help line, and posted on the Facebook page but they have been no help.


Thank You again for all the feedback!

CrumpledLeaf said:

I got it back a few days later, and was told that they did not center the steering wheel when they did the alignment.

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Hunter tools (http://www.hunter.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false has some videos on the somewhat new extra step that needs to be
taken for wheel alignment on cars with electric power steering. The "Steering Angle Sensor" (SAS)
needs to be re calibrated (they call it a reset) after all the mechanical alignment is done. while
it is called out in the service manual, a tech who is not aware of this new needed step, may not
do it. Note this requires equipment hooked up to the OBDII port using the special code that Nissan
has created, so only those shops that either have a Consult III+ or say Hunters Code Link, can
even do a complete alignment. From another post, it looks like without this step, the steering will
be fighting the car, as you saw.

CrumpledLeaf said:

cwerdna:

I am sorry; I am new to posting on this or any forum...I run it until I get the audible "low battery" message which is around 8-12 miles remaining on the display. I had 12 bars when the accident occurred(October 24, 2013), and 11 bars when I picked it up in January 2014. I have taken it back to the dealer at least 6 times from January until May; they reset the vehicle, and told me that it had to relearn again and to give it a month or so. The 12th bar came back within that "test" month, but the range did not increase. I was at 2.8 miles per kwh, and it has now leveled off at 3.9 miles per kwh.

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If it’s the 1st audible warning, then you’ve only driven LBW, not VLBW. So, charge to 100%, drive 40 miles per what you described and then you hit LBW? Sound right? When you reset the miles/kWh meter at the beginning of the trip, your ending miles/kWh figure is 3.9? Yes?

A dash showing 12 bars but only getting 40 miles from 100% to VLBW with 3.9 miles / kWh means there is something wrong with the car or something wrong with the information being supplied here. If you can confirm the information we are interpreting is correct, I would take it to another dealer for a second opinion.

Cliff:

Thank You

Cwerdna:

I generally go to the first audible warning; so that would be the LBW, but have run it all the way down a few times( I try not to run it that low). Yes; I reset at the beginning of each charge, and have been documenting everything by photo. The average has been 3.9 miles per kWh, but has been as low as 2.8 miles per kWh.

Kugel:

The information is correct; I start with 12 bars, only drive city streets, average 3.9 miles per kWh, and average only 40 miles per charge. I have reports from the dealer each time that I have taken it in, and on each one they state that they verified the customer complaint....they then reset it and tell me that everything is perfect.

I have started a Facebook page, and have started to email executives at Nissan until they acknowledge the issue.

It is not perfect, and it is not right!


Thank you again for all the feedback.

CrumpledLeaf said:

The maximum cell voltage was 4089 mV and the minimum cell voltage was 4071 mV. The HV battery level is 93% or 16240 Wh. The battery volt is 392.0, battery current +2 and battery temp is 57 degrees.

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I may have missed it, but where are you getting these readings? 93% capacity doesn't equal 16.24 kWh. I have lost 2 bars, and I think I have more than that.

Keydriver:

Nissan sent a Leaf specialist out to examine my Leaf, and these readings were on the "bulletin" that he provided to Central Valley Nissan, AAA and to me.