jlsoaz
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Point of Disappointment with Nissan - no DCQCs yet on my rte

Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:30 pm

I'm happy with many things about my Nissan Leaf and so I will consider getting into another Nissan PEV when my lease is up in 18 months (assuming it will go at least 100-150 highway miles between needing a charge).

However:

If there is one main point of disappointment that has cost me a lot of time, money and aggravation, it is that the rate of rollout of inter-city DC Quick Chargers has been somewhat slow and it has not reached my area. In fact, I fear that it will be several more years. (I won't say "if ever" because BEVs are here to stay, so eventually I think virtually all areas will have DCQC or accelerated L2 or what-have-you).

On the one hand, I can't help but notice that Tesla got out front on rolling out charge stations in places that seemed obscure except that they facilitated inter-city travel. On the other hand, I live near Tucson and it is conspicuous that except for a quick charge station at one dealership (so it is not 24x7, and it is not inter-city) Nissan has done little (so far).

Would it really cost Nissan a lot to partner with other stakeholders and install 2 quick charge stations about 30-40 miles to the East and South of Tucson... one around Benson and one around Green Valley? Wouldn't this change the driving lives of (and reduce the range anxiety of) various Leaf lessees in and around the Tucson area? [I don't mention about North or West because both Blink and GoE3 have installed a couple of stations on the way to Phoenix.]

On the route south of Tucson (the one that hits closer to home for me, so I have thought about it more), there are arguments against this, including that there are very few Leafs presently located south of the city. However, arguments for locating a charge station near Green Valley include:

- There is a Nissan dealership just south of the border in Nogales Sonora. A Quick Charge Station in or south of Green Valley would be a key spike on what local EV drivers are calling the "Cactus Highway" from Phoenix down south through toward this Mexican dealership and toward the eventual goal of Hermosillo (where there is a public L2 set up by an enterprising EV Supporter. This can be seen better on plugshare.com. There are several hundred thousand people in Nogales, Sonora, and it is common to make the drive up to Tucson and back, across the border. Nissan has already indicated starting to try to sell BEVs in Mexico. Might the Nogales, Sonora dealership be one possible smart focus point? Would a reliable DC Quick Charger at or near Green Valley help them sell customers on the possibility of Leafs being a good way to drive to Tucson?

- There are boarded up gas stations that present significant urban blight at exit 65 Texaco and exit 69 Texaco (and a couple down in Nogales, AZ as well). I can't help but think that an EV Quick Charge Station might be a point of business-rejuvenation, even if very lightly used at first.

- There is a new and heavily and expensively remodeled Jim Click Ford Dealership at exit 69. I have lobbied Jim Click Nissan in Tucson (from whom I leased my Leaf) to consider installing a DCQC at this location (but I fear they would do it within the dealership gates), but so far have run into a wall. Perhaps Nissan could in some minor way partner with Ford and GoE3 or Car Charging or others to do some cost-sharing on a 24x7x365 public DCQC near (but outside the gates of) the Ford Dealership?

- There are well-used rest stops on either side of the road at approximately kilometer 53 (all the exit numbers I am giving are km North of Mexico - this highway 19 is still denominated in km, not miles). There are no restaurants, but there are vending machines and restrooms, good lighting and numerous long-haul trucks taking a break. This would be an opportunity.

- At Exit 48 there is a very lightly used gas station.

- At exit 22 there is a brand spanking new 4 or 5 MW (eventually 7 MW) solar farm. There is nothing else really there, but it might be an idea to partner the solar with the quick charging.

I realize that Nissan is working on these things, but it is taking a long time. I also made notes at this page, but they are co-mingled with some of my ideas for L1 and L2:

http://www.herecomesmongo.com/mpages/scevse.html
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
josh@jlaz.com
opinions expressed are my own

bbrowncods
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:53 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2014
Leaf Number: 339458
Location: Norfolk VA

Re: Point of Disappointment with Nissan - no DCQCs yet on my

Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:49 pm

I know what you mean. There are no DCQC's within 100 miles of Virginia Beach.
2014 Cayenne Red Leaf SL purchased 6/9/2014 (dealer received it on 6/7/2014), manufacture date 4/2014.
7/4/14 -629 miles, Temp 83, SOC 97.5, 59.81 Ahr, SOH 91%, Hx 91.44, 20.2 Kwh, Avg 4.127, High 4.136, Low 4.122, GIDS 267/92.5%.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9355
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Point of Disappointment with Nissan - no DCQCs yet on my

Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:10 pm

None in all of Upstate NY, either. I have no QC port, but L-2 tends to go with L-3...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

KJD
Posts: 1348
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:06 am
Delivery Date: 08 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 15656
Location: SLC, UT
Contact: Website

Re: Point of Disappointment with Nissan - no DCQCs yet on my

Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:12 pm

We have 3 ABB quick charge stations in this area. All 3 of these were supplied by Nissan.

As of today all 3 of them are offline and 2 of them have been that way for weeks. Providing hardware that does not work is just as bad as not doing anything.
2012 SL Delivered 12/08/2011
Sold 05/12/2015
2012 Tesla Model S 85

kubel
Posts: 1609
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 am
Leaf Number: 19628
Location: Southeast Michigan

Re: Point of Disappointment with Nissan - no DCQCs yet on my

Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:30 pm

We have one in the entire state of Michigan, and it's at the Nissan Technical Center. I really hope when Kia gets onboard, they will start investing in the infrastructure some more, because Nissan's investment, at least for Michigan, has been a disappointment.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
20% degradation in 42k miles
Leased 5-17-2012, Returned 1-15-2016


2017 Chevy Volt LT
Siren Red Tintcoat
Leased 10-21-2016

rogersleaf
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 17 May 2014
Leaf Number: 337936
Location: Kent, Ohio

Re: Point of Disappointment with Nissan - no DCQCs yet on my

Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:22 pm

My understanding is the Federal Tax/Grant incentives are gone. It would take many years to recoup the investment if commercially vending either L2 or L3 recharging. Don't hold your breath waiting unless the incentives return.
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver

jlsoaz
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Point of Disappointment with Nissan - no DCQCs yet on my

Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:42 pm

rogersleaf wrote:My understanding is the Federal Tax/Grant incentives are gone. It would take many years to recoup the investment if commercially vending either L2 or L3 recharging. Don't hold your breath waiting unless the incentives return.


Hi -

It is true that the lack of federal incentive affects all parties, and it could be affecting deployment of DCQC in which Nissan is involved. I also think other issues are affecting public DCQC deployment such as utility demand charges and regulations or laws preventing reselling of electricity still in some states.

Both Tesla and Nissan have given indications that in their view the relevant issue is not making money on public refueling but on making money on selling cars.

Both of the Nissan dealers in Tucson have L2 and one of them has DCQC. I am concerned that Nissan thinks this is adequate, and that since they have positioned the Leaf as an around-town car that it is ok not to prioritize inter-city DCQC. Neither of these will hold up. Nissan does seem to be somewhat moving toward a longer-range BEV and I think eventually either accelerated L2 and-or DCQC will need to be deployed all over the US between cities, whether Nissan agrees or not. It is just very frustrating to have so much time pass with such a slow pace toward these things.
Last edited by jlsoaz on Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
josh@jlaz.com
opinions expressed are my own

apvbguy
Posts: 1403
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:34 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Apr 2013
Location: Jacksonville FL.

Re: Point of Disappointment with Nissan - no DCQCs yet on my

Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:46 pm

jlsoaz wrote:I'm happy with many things about my Nissan Leaf and so I will consider getting into another Nissan PEV when my lease is up in 18 months (assuming it will go at least 100-150 highway miles between needing a charge).

what makes you believe that this is going to happen?
WARNING This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm

rogersleaf
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 17 May 2014
Leaf Number: 337936
Location: Kent, Ohio

Re: Point of Disappointment with Nissan - no DCQCs yet on my

Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:39 pm

jlsoaz wrote:Both of the Nissan dealers in Tucson have L2 and one of them has DCQC. I am concerned that Nissan thinks this is adequate, and that since they have positioned the Leaf as an around-town car that it is ok not to prioritize inter-city DCQC. Neither of these will hold up. Nissan does seem to be somewhat moving toward a longer-range BEV and I think eventually either accelerated L2 and-or DCQC will need to be deployed all over the US between cities, whether Nissan agrees or not. It is just very frustrating to have so much time pass with such a slow pace toward these things.

I think Nissan has done exactly this...packaged the car as an around town product with just enough battery investment for daily usage/range and still can be owner-supported on a typical household electrical supply. Personally think they did a great job within this constraint. On my own LEAF, have the 6.6kW AC charger and no DCQC port. Dealers in this area have only L2's, in fact there isn't a DCQC within 100 miles. I would have to be desperate (along with a lot of spare time) to attempt an inter-city trip with this LEAF. One of the more surprising discoveries was the dealer driving LEAfs from other dealers in cities 150-200 miles away, it takes all day with multiple L2 charging. Personally don't have the patience, would have that LEAF on a trailer.
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver

kaikara
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:49 am
Delivery Date: 24 Oct 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Point of Disappointment with Nissan - no DCQCs yet on my

Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:32 am

I think it will really be the next gen leaf with longer range that will be hurt by a lack of charging infrastructure. I think this is where Tesla has it right in building their supercharger network. I am leasing my 2014 with anticipation by the time it comes up for renewal there will be longer range EVs available for a decent price. If you have manufacturers making cars with similar ranges and at similar prices but with one you have access to a network of charger that will allow you to take long trips in your EV which car would you purchase?

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