How does the Leaf communicate with the internet/network?

Hello everyone.

With Leaf prices dropping more like a rock then falling like a leaf on depreciation, I'm considering getting a Leaf.

My question is, how does it communicate with the internet for charging status and charging features?

Do I have to pay for a monthy fee for a cellular data connection?

Personally, I'd be fine with a car that talked to my home wireless network.

No charge currently to use the phone app or Nissan website to monitor and control your car via the 2g wireless att data connection.
Future who knows

fefrie said:

Hello everyone.

With Leaf prices dropping more like a rock then falling like a leaf on depreciation, I'm considering getting a Leaf.

My question is, how does it communicate with the internet for charging status and charging features?

Do I have to pay for a monthy fee for a cellular data connection?

Personally, I'd be fine with a car that talked to my home wireless network.

Click to expand...

The car uses a slow 2G transceiver to connect with Nissan's servers, and while they could still offer a slow WiFi option, they don't, and seem to have no plans to do so.

I'm in canada, and there's a $7K difference between similar priced cars.

How does it work if I take the car from USA to Canada?

Be aware that only the SV/SL models have "Carwings", the data connection that currently uses the AT&T 2g cellphone network. The less expensive S model has no remote data or control access.

String.
Cups.
2G.

kieranmullen said:

Future? who knows.

Click to expand...

This is why I hate technologies that are dependent on the success of some other 3rd party agreement out of my control.

In my ideal world, I'd be able to connect a leaf to a home network just like I would be going into my own router to tweak settings.

When I'm on the road, I would be charging to max as fast as I could and 'timing' settings would be mostly useless.

fefrie said:

kieranmullen said:

Future? who knows.

Click to expand...

This is why I hate technologies that are dependent on the success of some other 3rd party agreement out of my control.

Click to expand...

You can't honestly expect Nissan to come up with their own (nationwide) comm network for the cars, can you? The only thing you could fault them on is going 2G instead of 2G/3G, but if you take into consideration the time-frame in which the Leaf was designed/developed (pre-2009), I'm willing to cut them some slack due to chip set costs. WiFi is not an option due to security issues (even with additional hardware): I don't want someone hacking into my car... :shock:

Stanton said:

fefrie said:

kieranmullen said:

Future? who knows.

Click to expand...

This is why I hate technologies that are dependent on the success of some other 3rd party agreement out of my control.

Click to expand...

You can't honestly expect Nissan to come up with their own (nationwide) comm network for the cars, can you? The only thing you could fault them on is going 2G instead of 2G/3G, but if you take into consideration the time-frame in which the Leaf was designed/developed (pre-2009), I'm willing to cut them some slack due to chip set costs. WiFi is not an option due to security issues (even with additional hardware): I don't want someone hacking into my car... :shock:

Click to expand...

Well - you can expect them to support industry standard WiFi and allow you to connect (when you desire) to whatever hotspots you wish. I.e. at home etc. This would in fact likely be less expensive for Nissan as they wouldn't have a carrier contract to connect to.

As to "WiFi" security issues - these can be mitigated; make it optional/controlled by driver when it is available and what can connect to it. Seriously, this isn't as hard as most folks think but it does take a mind shift to "only allow what is permitted" vs "allow all but block out some you don't like". So, disable it by default, then on enabling require explicit permissions to whatever networks you connect to and restrict what is available (i.e. a tight API), really isn't any different than the carwings if you think about it - if command can be sent via the 2g, (which they can) then it could potentially be hacked.

Stanton said:

fefrie said:

kieranmullen said:

Future? who knows.

Click to expand...

This is why I hate technologies that are dependent on the success of some other 3rd party agreement out of my control.

Click to expand...

WiFi is not an option due to security issues (even with additional hardware): I don't want someone hacking into my car... :shock:

Click to expand...

Then you better go back to your Model T Vehicle security is a disaster right now. Also, we aren't talking about implementing a Wi-Fi access point, just a client. Several vehicles already support this, including the Tesla Model S.

I thought they charged you for carwings after a couple of years. I have an S. I didn't pay much attention to that.

Stanton said:

WiFi is not an option due to security issues (even with additional hardware): I don't want someone hacking into my car... :shock:

Click to expand...

There's not really any difference in practical security using a 2G GSM cellular connection vs. using WiFi from a client prospective :roll: . I'm a networking guy and building routers for cellular phone systems used to be my day job.

And 2G vs. 3G is no better. I've a picocell; if you come to my house, your phone will be using my network for it's 2G/3G without you even knowing it.

John

johnrhansen said:

I thought they charged you for carwings after a couple of years. I have an S. I didn't pay much attention to that.

Click to expand...

That was the plan but Nissan put it on hold because the 2g AT&T connection it uses is going to disappear in the fairly near future. At that point we may get the chance to upgrade hardware/software at considerable expense. Or not.

jlv said:

Stanton said:

WiFi is not an option due to security issues (even with additional hardware): I don't want someone hacking into my car... :shock:

Click to expand...

There's not really any difference in practical security using a 2G GSM cellular connection vs. using WiFi from a client prospective :roll: . I'm a networking guy and building routers for cellular phone systems used to be my day job.

And 2G vs. 3G is no better. I've a picocell; if you come to my house, your phone will be using my network for it's 2G/3G without you even knowing it.

John

Click to expand...

Yup, this is what I want. When my car is home, I want to assign it a static IP and have an app that uses the Local Area Network to communicate with the car.

When I'm out and about since there's no LAN, the app won't work, but I don't care since there isn't much that I could do to dictate charge behaviour.

It's just when I'm home where I would want to be able to conveniently program the charging behavour so that it slowly charges to 50% automatically, then set a timing schedule that it charges to X% charge by a certain time of the day.

If I have a simple day, I specify it to charge to 70% by 8am when I leave, but let's say if it's the weekend and I plan to do a lot of driving, I can specify for it to charge to 100% at 11am. So I can get full range, but not have a battery sitting at 100% for too long when I take off at 11am.

fefrie said:

I'm in canada, and there's a $7K difference between similar priced cars.

How does it work if I take the car from USA to Canada?

Click to expand...

I live in Canada and seriously looked into importing a used car from the US. Seems the whole NAV system has to be replaced for Carwings to work in Canada. Decided to buy locally instead.

muus said:

fefrie said:

I'm in canada, and there's a $7K difference between similar priced cars.

How does it work if I take the car from USA to Canada?

Click to expand...

I live in Canada and seriously looked into importing a used car from the US. Seems the whole NAV system has to be replaced for Carwings to work in Canada. Decided to buy locally instead.

Click to expand...

I guess i'd look into getting a S version. Or installing a nav system from a smashed up canada car.

It's good to think about though.

lion said:

... Vehicle security is a disaster right now. Also, we aren't talking about implementing a Wi-Fi access point, just a client. Several vehicles already support this, including the Tesla Model S.

Click to expand...

Network connectivity is a security concern whether cellular or Wi-fi.
But extensive Wi-fi connectivity and functionality may present a bigger target for hackers.
See recent report on possible hacking of Tesla S.
http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/07/tesla-model-s-hack-reportedly-controls-locks-horn-headlights-while-in-motion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TimLee said:

lion said:

... Vehicle security is a disaster right now. Also, we aren't talking about implementing a Wi-Fi access point, just a client. Several vehicles already support this, including the Tesla Model S.

Click to expand...

Network connectivity is a security concern whether cellular or Wi-fi.
But extensive Wi-fi connectivity and functionality may present a bigger target for hackers.
See recent report on possible hacking of Tesla S.
http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/07/tesla-model-s-hack-reportedly-controls-locks-horn-headlights-while-in-motion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click to expand...

Right, I said vehicle security was a disaster, but my point was that a Wi-Fi access point wasn't needed, just a Wi-Fi client

As for Tesla, it sounds like they 'exploited' (if that) the API designed for the mobile app, so Wi-Fi vs 2G doesn't even have anything to do with it. At least Tesla can fix this remotely, vs all the security issues in existing vehicles, which would require a full recall in most cases, if the manufacturers actually cared.

I hope sooner than later, vehicle manufacturers will really focus on security, plus make it modular/configurable, so the customer can decide the connectivity method (plus this would help address issues such as 2G going away), but my feeling is that with increased security, we will lose some access to the OBDII/CAN interface.