am I a mooch?

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johnrhansen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2013
Messages
1,100
Location
Seattle, WA
I feel terrible. I plugged into a free level 2 charger and gave nothing in return for the 13 kwh I absorbed. You see, I drove to Muckleshoot casino met a friend there, plugged my car in, then took off in his car to go hiking. 3 hours later we came back he left, and I got into my vehicle and took off too. I never set foot in the joint. I dont like casinos.

there were 2 empty spaces when I arrived and when I left. Was I wrong to mooch? I really wish the machine would have charged me 3 bucks or something then I wouldn't feel bad. It was a sema charge station. I have a card for them, but this machine did not require one. Maybe I should have gone in and dumped 3 bucks on a slot. With my luck I would have won. Wasn't really hungry to eat either.
 
No.

Most people will deposit more then enough into the slots to make up for the few that don't. Next time go grab a water from shop, to pay for your $1 of power.
 
I would love to see more free charging locations. Most of the public access chargers cost around $0.55/kWh. ~$10 to recharge. Not horrible, but certainly not free.
 
johnrhansen said:
I feel terrible. I plugged into a free level 2 charger and gave nothing in return for the 13 kwh I absorbed. You see, I drove to Muckleshoot casino met a friend there, plugged my car in, then took off in his car to go hiking. 3 hours later we came back he left, and I got into my vehicle and took off too. I never set foot in the joint. I dont like casinos.
Re: am I a mooch?
You absolutely were it seems if they were intended for customers. I'm not a fan of casinos either but it is the same as any other business in the sense it was an amenity to their customers. What if it was a mom and pop deli or bakery that is scraping by and they had to pay for part of it to get installed or maintained. Would you have done the same to them for your free convenience?
 
You raise a good question for which only you have the answer.

From this observation point, since you raised the question, the answer would seem to be "yes," but only you would truly know.

The greater question might be, "In what other circumstances in my life might this question apply!!"
 

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What if it was a mom and pop deli or bakery that is scraping by and they had to pay for part of it to get installed or maintained.

It wasn't. Casinos are parasitic business that harm their "host" communities. Just as I'm happy to return (but not buy) items to Walmart, I'd be happy to 'mooch' from a casino. Not all questions have just one answer.
 
LeftieBiker said:
What if it was a mom and pop deli or bakery that is scraping by and they had to pay for part of it to get installed or maintained.

It wasn't. Casinos are parasitic business that harm their "host" communities. Just as I'm happy to return (but not buy) items to Walmart, I'd be happy to 'mooch' from a casino. Not all questions have just one answer.


Classic justification and rationalization you can apply to this or even steeling. Your opinion or judgement of their business practices clearly affords you the right to justify as you please. I wonder what they could justify in response to your comments about them? The op deserves credit for raising an issue of morality, you get credit for illustrating what is wrong with our moral values.

Since you return items that you do not buy that would imply they were gifts or you are stealing from the business. .
 
Or something else, like returning items that fail under warranty to Walmart.

You seem to have lost sight of the original question. The casino did not, apparently, have signs limiting charging to customers' cars only, so it was a question of personal ethics. I answered it as such, and while you are right that ethics vary, you seem to accept the underlying assumption that business ethics outrank societal ethics. So anything that doesn't add to a business's Bottom Line can become "steeling" of one sort or another. I don't agree. Your reality obviously varies.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Or something else, like returning items that fail under warranty to Walmart.

You seem to have lost sight of the original question.

Sorry, this seems way more intriguing...So you return stuff that failed under warranty to Walmart, yet you didnt buy it there?
How does that work?


About the mooching...I think before we unpack the big moral sticks like stealing etc., isn't there an insignificance threshold?
At current rates we are talking about $1.30 at most?
Isn't this like give-a-penny-take-a-penny? Elsewhere we overpay stuff (e.g. by not using a coupon, happens to me sometimes), so we give back.

In the grand scheme of things, a one time free use of their charger will not even ruin a mom and pop business.
Just don't make it a habit.


If they were serious about making money, they could have put up a pay-per-use station (or activate this feature on the current one).
 
He didn't just help himself to the charging facility but to the parking itself, inappropriately occupying private property to stash a car for a few hours. It can't even be rationalized by having patronized the establishment at other times.

OP really should go back and make amends perhaps putting 20 on red. Oh, and tip the cocktail waitress too.
 
johnrhansen said:
I feel terrible. I plugged into a free level 2 charger and gave nothing in return for the 13 kwh I absorbed. You see, I drove to Muckleshoot casino met a friend there, plugged my car in, then took off in his car to go hiking. 3 hours later we came back he left, and I got into my vehicle and took off too. I never set foot in the joint. I dont like casinos.

there were 2 empty spaces when I arrived and when I left. Was I wrong to mooch? I really wish the machine would have charged me 3 bucks or something then I wouldn't feel bad. It was a sema charge station. I have a card for them, but this machine did not require one. Maybe I should have gone in and dumped 3 bucks on a slot. With my luck I would have won. Wasn't really hungry to eat either.

You feel terrible. So, you are paying for it, just not monetarily. If it feels bad, don't do it.
 
clearly, the casino doesnt care, so why should anyone else?

maybe the only infringement would be on EV users who go to the casino. but there werent any. but that was luck.
that is where the moral issue is.
 
you are not a mooch when you receive something that is freely offered aka "a gift"

you're a mooch when you go asking for a hand out and EXPECTING someone else to foot the bill.

yes, they probably expect you to visit the casino. but when I stopped at the Harely-Davidson plant for an hour last week they surely weren't expecting me to visit a manufacturing facility, after hours, on a weekend, to buy a motorcycle directly from the factory instead of across town at the dealership and yet they offered a free L2 evse for public use. (fortunately it was there or I wouldn't have made it home from the airport)
 
The original plan was to go back there and have dinner afterwards, but when the hike was over, I just wasn't hungry. I could have gone in there just to eat, but I don't drink, smoke, or gamble. Since I didn't want to eat there was no reason to go in there. I could have stashed my car elsewhere and charged for free up the road at younker nissan since I bought my car there. But I try to avoid the quick charger if I can. I'll make a point to go back there and eat someday. Thanks for putting up the chargers Muckleshoot.

By the way, I'm one of the blue dots on plugshare. I wouldn't ask for money if someone needed to charge, if it was only occasionally, but I would accept some if it were offered. If it was every day though, I'd have a problem with it. That's my take on this after I slept on it. My intent was good. Just my plans changed. Ive given to others what I have taken, as long as I come back and spend some money there at another time, I'm ok.
 
well, would you feel better plugging at Tahoma Market for free (its not) and going to Emerald Queen for lunch when Tahoma has decent food?

well, I didn't and yes, I did it when Tahoma was still free :eek:

if its abused, then the casino should have applied a charge and then allow the charge to be validated but guessing the CC charges were too much to bother with it.
 
I don't consider it "abuse" or "mooching" to occasionally use free charging in situations like that. Even though the casino did not get your business on that occasion, they've just generated goodwill and a likely, future customer. Also, besides being good business, their decision to install charging docks probably had at least something to do with wanting to support EVs. They just made it possible for you to use your EV rather than an ICE. Personally, it brings me pleasure whenever someone charges (for free) at my PlugShare-listed EVSE because I'm enabling someone to drive EV miles. If this gets to be excessive, then simple restrictions can be put in place.
 
johnrhansen said:
I feel terrible. I plugged into a free level 2 charger and gave nothing in return for the 13 kwh I absorbed. You see, I drove to Muckleshoot casino met a friend there, plugged my car in, then took off in his car to go hiking. 3 hours later we came back he left, and I got into my vehicle and took off too. I never set foot in the joint. I dont like casinos.

there were 2 empty spaces when I arrived and when I left. Was I wrong to mooch? I really wish the machine would have charged me 3 bucks or something then I wouldn't feel bad. It was a sema charge station. I have a card for them, but this machine did not require one. Maybe I should have gone in and dumped 3 bucks on a slot. With my luck I would have won. Wasn't really hungry to eat either.
you were indeed a mooch on 2 levels, using their parking lot to meet someone and go elsewhere and using their electricity while not patronizing their business.
 
LeftieBiker said:
What if it was a mom and pop deli or bakery that is scraping by and they had to pay for part of it to get installed or maintained.

It wasn't. Casinos are parasitic business that harm their "host" communities. Just as I'm happy to return (but not buy) items to Walmart, I'd be happy to 'mooch' from a casino. Not all questions have just one answer.
SMH
nobody is forced to go into a casino and gamble.
in addition think of all the jobs a casino creates for lower level workers
 
I give the OP a big thumbs up for the concern on whether the behaviour was ethical, but I don't see any problem with it.
The business provided free charging. Lot of reasons they may have done this.
Good advertising, want to support less emissions, want to support electric vehicles, etc.
If the parking and free charging is for patrons only then it should be posted that way with a sign.
Most businesses with limited parking have done that.
Without signage that it is for patrons only I do not see any ethical violation.
 
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