edatoakrun
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Re: Networking the free DCQC chargers at Nissan dealers

Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:18 am

PaulScott wrote:... We like the ability to set the price, and we were assured we could charge per kWh which I like a lot. We can also use it to incentivize customers by letting our customers use it for free, but a nominal charge for those who bought or leased from competing dealers.


Personally, I'd like to see relatively high (by time, kWh, or preferable both) charges at every public DC, to reduce the freeloader factor, in order to increase reliability.

Paul, what are Nissan Dealers doing or planning to do about DC capable EVs/PHEVs from manufacturers, other than Nissan?

Particularly, when/if Tesla gets their CHAdeMO adapter on the market?

There is a single DC (at Chico Nissan) along my ~200 mile route South to "northern" CA.

I'd hate get there, only to find a Tesla S plugged in there (or at any other DC site I needed to use) taking a multi-hour charge session.
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TomT
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Re: Networking the free DCQC chargers at Nissan dealers

Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:01 am

I don't like this idea for three reasons...

First, the assumption is that dealer customers would take advantage of it. The problem with this theory is that, often, purchasers live near their dealer and thus would not often need a QC there..

Second, we are trying to expand the usability range of EVs. This would be at odds with that.

Third, a smart dealer could charge nothing and draw in the customers from other dealers around who do charge those who did not buy there...

PaulScott wrote:We can also use it to incentivize customers by letting our customers use it for free, but a nominal charge for those who bought or leased from competing dealers.
Last edited by TomT on Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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surfingslovak
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Re: Networking the free DCQC chargers at Nissan dealers

Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:50 am

TomT wrote:I don't like this idea for three reasons...

First, the assumption is that dealer customers would take advantage of it. The problem with this theory is that, often, purchasers live near their dealer and thus would not often need a QC there..

Second, we are trying to expand the usability range of EVs. This would be at odds with that.

Third, a smart dealer could charge nothing and draw in the customers from other dealers around who do charge those who did not but there...

PaulScott wrote:We can also use it to incentivize customers by letting our customers use it for free, but a nominal charge for those who bought or leased from competing dealers.
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All fair points. I happen to know that a similar policy is being considered by another dealership, and you have to wonder if this is what will end up being implemented at most of them.

We have seen the rise of a new type of EV driver recently. These owners get the LEAF primarily for economic reasons, they often avoid installing a home charging station due to the associated cost, and are not shy to use free public charging at Nissan dealers and elsewhere. There was even a report of an owner, who would come to a Nissan dealership every morning, and demand the fob for the Sumitomo QC without even saying 'good morning' to anyone.

While these cases might be rare, they can and do occur. It's an important consideration when setting the charging policy, and I hope that most dealers will be smart when setting theirs, and will manage to avoid the worst abuse scenarios.

Here is a photo of a LEAF charging at a free Sumitomo QC at a Nissan facility. There was no clear policy set, and the owner called the police, when another owner approached him and asked if he could stop charging at 80%, and move to the adjacent level 2 charging station. The police did indeed show up, and found the whole situation 'ridiculous'. I'm posting this to highlight the importance of sound charging policy, and guidelines to prevent abuse and the so-called 'charge rage'.


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DaveEV
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Re: Networking the free DCQC chargers at Nissan dealers

Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:16 am

surfingslovak wrote:Here is a photo of a LEAF charging at a free Sumitomo QC at a Nissan facility.

What a douche-bag. Hopefully the police didn't ticket him for parking in a handicap spot or abusing the 911 system (this was an emergency? :roll:)

I would hope that Nissan dealers have the freedom to deny access to said charging infrastructure. They should share that list to keep these people from charging anywhere. It's pretty clear that free does not work unless man-power is willing to be spent to prevent douche-bags from abusing the system.

I wonder if ChargePoint can be set up to allow some amount of free charging per time period? Allow say 60 minutes of free charging in any rolling 30 day period - once that is exceeded, you are charged $0.25 / minute.

A scheme like that would still allow owners the perk of occasional free charging, but no real free-loading. The flat per-minute rate would also discourage people from charging over 80%.

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Re: Networking the free DCQC chargers at Nissan dealers

Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:05 pm

I heard somebody mention one time that they would like to see a $10 charge at the beginning and it gets credited back if you disconnect before 30 minutes. I'm assuming that you'd also have to be sure that they did not immediately reconnect. Should be pretty easy to implement, and would keep people from using the space as a parking space. After 30 min on a DCQC, the charge rates are the same as a L2 J1772, so it should be no problem as far as speed goes.

Essentially charge some fee at the beginning that gives incentive to get done quickly and free up the charger for the next guy. You get the fee back if you cooperate.
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walterbays
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Re: Networking the free DCQC chargers at Nissan dealers

Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:20 pm

drees wrote:I wonder if ChargePoint can be set up to allow some amount of free charging per time period? Allow say 60 minutes of free charging in any rolling 30 day period - once that is exceeded, you are charged $0.25 / minute.

A scheme like that would still allow owners the perk of occasional free charging, but no real free-loading. The flat per-minute rate would also discourage people from charging over 80%.
Good idea.

Dealers might charge $0.25/minute (or $0.20/minute to match EVgo's alacarte price) and give coupons to their customers for free charging. Buy a car from them and get a handful of coupons. Bring your car in for regular maintenance and get a few coupons. Each coupon could even have a specific month(s) when it was valid so when you get a 6-month service you get 12 coupons which you can use two per month. To use a coupon enter the validation code and you get 20 minutes of free charging. Or instead of coupons just put virtual coupons on the Chargepoint card which doubles as the Nissan dealer's loyalty card.

Many businesses use similar schemes, e.g. Amazon certificates, grocery store gasoline discounts, and there's no reason Chargepoint couldn't implement it. It would let the dealer reward not only customers who bought the car there, but also customers who patronize his service department, in whatever measure he wishes.

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Re: Networking the free DCQC chargers at Nissan dealers

Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:09 pm

looks like most of WA is going Chargepoint. Magic has announced a price of $3 per session. no word from any other one as of yet
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hill
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Re: Networking the free DCQC chargers at Nissan dealers

Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:08 am

Let's not forget ... as our traction packs diminish, in order to continue to make use of a vehicle that has a limited range from the get go ... we'll need QC's more frequently, just to get where we use to go w/out a charge. Older/worn packs will up the necessity for all of us to be QC'ing more frequently unles your daily commute is under 15-20 miles. Did Nissan factor that into the infrastructure equasion?
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Last edited by hill on Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Networking the free DCQC chargers at Nissan dealers

Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:15 am

Another vote for Chargepoint. They have really helped build charging infrastructure in Upstate NY. It's gone from 'virtually nothing' to "You can get a charge in most larger cities and exurbs." They should be rewarded for all the free charging so far.
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Re: Networking the free DCQC chargers at Nissan dealers

Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:39 am

PaulScott wrote:We received a notice from Nissan that our first year of free charging may be coming to an end here at the dealer. They are giving us three choices. Please see the following and give me your opinion. We are on the fence, but currently leaning toward the Chargepoint option at our store (Nissan of Downtown LA). We can set a price with Chargepoint for users, but we can't with EVGO. EVGO has a better warranty of 4 years vs. 1 year with Chargepoint.

Paul, has the dealership made a decision yet ?
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