2013+ Leaf heaters vs. pre-MY13

Hope there isn't already a thread on this...

Has anyone examined/taken apart the car enough to see the heater on the S trim '13+ Leafs? Is it the same part as that of the '11 and '12s? Does it still heat liquid and then run thru a heater core? Unfortunately, since the S trim has a very limited LCD, you can see power usage at all.

How about the PTC portion of the hybrid heater found on the SV and SL trims? Is it different than the above?

For me, w/my '13 Leaf SV, if I turn on the heat in the garage, by the time I've backed out to the driveway, I already have heat so this sounds WAY faster than the pre-13 resistive heater. Not sure how much of that is coming from the PTC portion vs. the heat pump. My temps when I do this are between ~35 F (at the lowest) to maybe 60-ish F.

Hmmm, with my 2013 S, I feel heat in about 60 seconds, if I use an IR thermometer, I can see the temp rising in about 10 seconds. Our 2013 SV is a bit faster to feel heat, I haven't used the IR thermometer on it to see if it's faster. Does that help answer your question at all? This is at ambient about 40 deg F.

Didn't someone say that the tubes carrying the heated liquid in the 2013 S aren't uninsulated and exposed the way they were in the 2011-2012s?

Sorry if this has been addressed before, but all that I found was this link. Has it been determined that there is a definitive improvement in the hybrid heater vs the original heaters? I have seen references to the hybrid being better but I wonder if there are any strong endorsements of the new heaters, and if so, can anyone comment on how effective they are the colder it gets? I currently drive a Mitsubishi I-MiEV, which has the traditional resistance style heater. That is a very poor heater, such that I wonder why Mitsu(or Nissan)ever agreed to use such a poor heater.
Thanks,
Lou

gatedad11 said:

Has it been determined that there is a definitive improvement in the hybrid heater vs the original heaters?

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'hybrid' heater?

D'you mean the heat pump heater. Oh, yeah. Heat pump works very well and much more efficiently, though it will struggle to work at all once the temperature really drops, then you need a resistive heater. But not until you are -10~-15C.

I guess it's a "hybrid" heater because the PTC heater is still there as well.

Bumping...

So, some of you with '13+ S trim Leafs have had an '11 or '12 Leaf before. Would you say the heater is better on the '13+ S (NOT SV/SL) than your '11 or '12? Are the part numbers the same? As I asked in the OP, does it still heat liquid instead of directly heating the air?

The 2013/2104 S is basically the same heater as the 2011/2012.

cwerdna said:

So, some of you with '13+ S trim Leafs have had an '11 or '12 Leaf before. Would you say the heater is better on the '13+ S (NOT SV/SL) than your '11 or '12? Are the part numbers the same? As I asked in the OP, does it still heat liquid instead of directly heating the air?

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TomT said:

The 2013/2104 S is basically the same heater as the 2011/2012.

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To follow up on this, this is apparently incorrect, per confirmation from someone w/experience w/both and a Nissan dealer tech.

To copy and paste my post from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=452121#p452121:
-- begin --
Although the '13 S (and '14 and '15 S) do NOT have the hybrid heat pump heater that the '13+ SV and SL have, it's been stated that the heater in the '13+ S is significantly better than the '11 and '12 crap slow to heat water-block heater. Apparently, on the S, they got rid of the water block portion.

There's a reply from a well-known Nissan dealer tech at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1083387598359343/?comment_id=1083396295025140&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D that states:
" 2013 S heater and the 11/12 heaters are not similar at all" and "11/12 Heaters use a air to water heater. The 13+ S uses a air to air."

Prior to his reply, someone else (who IS a frequent poster here on MNL) stated: "In reality its anything 2013 and newer verses the 11-12's. My heater which is supposed to be the same in my 2013 S definitely works better than my 2011 SL".
-- end --

For whatever reason, it seems Nissan neglected to mention any improvement of the non-hybrid heater over the '11 and '12 heater.

New Leaf has PTC air heater. Inside the AC unit.
It is PWM controlled, but even giving 100% command it heats up to certain temperature
and can't heat more (because it is PTC - resistance goes up as it heats up).
I was not able to reach anything higher than 3250W.

For better life expectancy PTC heater is switched on slowly. This is why the blue dial
doesn't activate like BANG 3kW. Same with Heat pump.
Also because of PTC limitations it will not do more than it can.
At -23*C maximum comfort (aka room temperature) is not reachable with fresh-air airflow.
Heat pump does not work below -15*C, that's why. But it doesn't matter. Nobody wants
6kW draw though it is possible, 3250W PTC + 2200W heat pump= about 10 000 W of heat

I did get 4600W at -13*C for a short time.

Arnis, thanks for the lowdown, as a owner of a '13 S I've always wondered what type of heater I had, your update made it clear.
My heater does work pretty well, even in cold temps but does tend to effect the range by almost 1/2, probably because it lacks the heat pump feature. Nice to know it's the air only version though although I can see why liquid may have been used. If one preheats at home using a liquid based system it would tend to hold the heat longer than air only, although when not plugged in it would take substantially longer time and energy just to feel heat, all in all I'm glad I got the hot air only system. In hindsight living in a cold climate I wish I had got the SV with heat pump but when I asked the dealer what the differences were, heat pump was not something that was mentioned, probably not even known by the salesperson who while being pleasant to deal with, knew very little of the Leaf and it's features.

How cold is cold?
I observed exactly 1/3 at -20*C on longer trips (from full to very low).
On shorter trips complete preheat is important (half hour at least) or that
heat will be drawn from the battery in the beginning of the trip.

With heat pump any temperature above freezing will have very small
heating load, way below 500W on average. Today it was +3C / +37F
and after 20 minutes it fell down to 300W and even idled for some time.
I use 19C / 66F setting mostly.

arnis said:

How cold is cold?
I observed exactly 1/3 at -20*C on longer trips (from full to very low).
On shorter trips complete preheat is important (half hour at least) or that
heat will be drawn from the battery in the beginning of the trip.

With heat pump any temperature above freezing will have very small
heating load, way below 500W on average. Today it was +3C / +37F
and after 20 minutes it fell down to 300W and even idled for some time.
I use 19C / 66F setting mostly.

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Today it started at about -2F and will top out at ~+10F, tomorrow I believe it's supposed to start out at -10F and be lucky to crack 0F. Yes I've noticed a big drop going from the 20sF or even teens F to single digits or below F. I generally keep my heat set at 74F but fan speed 1 so I'm my guess is I could have it set at 66F and it wouldn't make any difference. Like setting a thermostat in a cold garage with a small heater to 70F or 60F, either way it will never be satisfied and run constantly, it's just nice to see 70F instead of 60F on the dash, kind of the placebo effect :lol:

i have a 2012 SL

My wife has a 2015 S

i think they both have the same heater. her's seems to get warmer faster than mine.

I know that you need to make sure that ECO is not on when wanting MAX heat and lowering the fan speed for the first 2 mins helps too as it loses heat to the ducting first.

I do have a ODB reader and leafpsy, I should look at what pull that heater calls for on her's, I know what mine does.

Setting fan speed to low will force PTC element to throttle down (even if command is 100%).
PTC element can only heat to certain temperature (like 80C or 120C). It will not heat up more.
If airflow is low then it just can't do more. Setting temperature to low will most likely still
have 100% command as cabin is way below the lowest setting
Placebo works. I also like to wear shorts down to -10C :mrgreen:

2012 SL should have PTC water heater, 2015 S should be PTC air heater without heatpump.
Both suck the same amount of juice. One is faster to warm up and cool down.

If the main mission is to heat up the cabin no matter what then the best thing is to switch on
recirculation. Heat will not escape and warm air will not be wasted.
Maximum fan to heat up cabin faster (recirculation mode ON).
It will fog up if people are breathing inside. AC compressor might activate even in very cold weather.
That would clear up some moisture. It will not work with fresh airflow as it is already below freezing.

PS! There are 3 modes of recirculation:
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=452187

Another reason I like to have a higher heat setting but a low fan speed(without recirc) is I figure with the low fan speed I'm pulling in the minimum amount of cold outside air, I'd rather have a little very warm air then a lot of luke warm air
Later today I'll play with the 20-30% recirc mode mentioned in your other thread. I need to travel ~30 one way freeway miles in 0 F where 100% recirc would be bound to frost up windows, it will be interesting to see what just a little recirc will do. This trip(in 0F conditions) normally requires me to charge to 100%, preheat cabin and then recharge for ~1hr at 19a 240v to be able to make the return trip and have maybe 10% remaining, as close as I like to get for % remaining when it's this cold out. I try and draft Semi's whenever possible but my trip requires ~70 MPH speeds so it really sucks the juice.

jjeff said:

Another reason I like to have a higher heat setting but a low fan speed(without recirc) is I figure with the low fan speed I'm pulling in the minimum amount of cold outside air, I'd rather have a little very warm air then a lot of luke warm air

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Very good point! When we are just heating the cabin, we put the system in recirculate mode to minimize the amount of outside air entering the cabin. But as soon as you turn on the defroster, that option disappears. The MY2011 LEAF's climate control system also has the annoying tendency to blast the fan when the defroster is turned on, thus drawing as much cold air into the cabin as possible.

The bottom line is that defrosting in very cold temperatures (<15F) means either blasting the defroster in short bursts or running it for much longer with a low fan speed. Both approaches have a significant impact on range. FWIW, I tend to use the approach of blasting the windshield in short bursts.

When we are just heating the cabin, we put the system in recirculate mode to minimize the amount of outside air entering the cabin. But as soon as you turn on the defroster, that option disappears. The MY2011 LEAF's climate control system also has the annoying tendency to blast the fan when the defroster is turned on, thus drawing as much cold air into the cabin as possible.

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If you put the Mode control on Floor only, that will both provide some defrosting action and let you use the Recirculate mode(s) while defrosting. Use a fan setting of at least 3 to get good defrosting.

It is also possible to stop airflow to rear passengers using some duct tape or some rubber or something.
If there are no passengers there why heat the floor there.
Even front passenger foot air can be stopped.

On 2013+ Leafs using mode button 100% defrost can be selected WITHOUT 100% fresh air.
Many other modes still allow some airflow to window.
I recommend closing left and right vents, including middle vents. Plus rear passenger vents.

LeftieBiker said:

If you put the Mode control on Floor only, that will both provide some defrosting action and let you use the Recirculate mode(s) while defrosting. Use a fan setting of at least 3 to get good defrosting.

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Thank you! I did not know that. I will give it a try.