Help with potential charging at work...

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hingisfan

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
55
Location
Sydenham, Ontario, Canada
Hi guys,

So, I spoke to my facilities co-ordinator briefly about charging my potential Leaf at work. He seemed pretty open to the idea, but he was wondering what I would need, as we don't have any 120v outlets outside. It's a manufacturing plant, we have a bunch of light standards in our parking lot, but they are are all wired at 347v. He mentioned they could rig up a transformer to one of the lights to bring it down to what I need. The other hitch is that all the outdoor lighting is on a main timer and I work half days and half nights, 12 hour shifts, 7am-7pm or 7pm-7am, so most of the year if my outlet is running with the timer, I won't be getting any charge when I work dayshift. The other option is to find an interior 120v outlet close to a door and run an extension cord out to the car, but there is grass and a walkway between the building and the parking lot which makes up quite a distance (50-100 feet), so it seems like not an ideal setup.

So, my questions are....
1. Anyone see a way around the timer issue?
2. What would I want them to dial down the power to? I was thinking if I have the choice I would do the EVSE upgrade and get them to make it 240v. I saw these transformers at http://www.ecraftsmen.com/data/files/349_Slim-Line_autoxfmr_specs.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and the first one listed would give me 240v @ 50 amps. I know 50 amps is too high for EVSE upgrade, but I assume it would work ok?
3. Any other ideas?
4. Does anyone have anything in writing to request charging access at work that I could borrow? Something nicely written about supporting eco-friendly and emission-free, and low cost charging, etc?

Thanks!
 
hingisfan said:
Hi guys,

So, I spoke to my facilities co-ordinator briefly about charging my potential Leaf at work. He seemed pretty open to the idea, but he was wondering what I would need, as we don't have any 120v outlets outside. It's a manufacturing plant, we have a bunch of light standards in our parking lot, but they are are all wired at 347v. He mentioned they could rig up a transformer to one of the lights to bring it down to what I need. The other hitch is that all the outdoor lighting is on a main timer and I work half days and half nights, 12 hour shifts, 7am-7pm or 7pm-7am, so most of the year if my outlet is running with the timer, I won't be getting any charge when I work dayshift. The other option is to find an interior 120v outlet close to a door and run an extension cord out to the car, but there is grass and a walkway between the building and the parking lot which makes up quite a distance (50-100 feet), so it seems like not an ideal setup.

So, my questions are....
1. Anyone see a way around the timer issue?
2. What would I want them to dial down the power to? I was thinking if I have the choice I would do the EVSE upgrade and get them to make it 240v. I saw these transformers at http://www.ecraftsmen.com/data/files/349_Slim-Line_autoxfmr_specs.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and the first one listed would give me 240v @ 50 amps. I know 50 amps is too high for EVSE upgrade, but I assume it would work ok?
3. Any other ideas?
4. Does anyone have anything in writing to request charging access at work that I could borrow? Something nicely written about supporting eco-friendly and emission-free, and low cost charging, etc?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The series of transformers you linked to are much smaller power-wise than you need for an EVSE...You need something that can pass about 1500 watts at 120v or about 7000 watts at 240v at a minimum. Those are too small...

Do you know if they want to bill for the energy or are willing to provide it for free? That will make a difference in what direction they go. Do they need to meter it?

The light standard idea is good, and as you have posted, the timer issue needs to be worked around. They will have to run an "always hot wire" in the same conduit that currently feeds the light standards with the "timer" hot wire from the building all the way out to the parking lot where you are going to park. The transformer could be installed inside the building or out at the light standard (if it is weather resistant)...

It may cost a bit to get the install done. If I was going to install it, I'd also be thinking about the 2nd driver, etc. Maybe install something that can charge a few cars...How far away do you live?
 
Randy said:
hingisfan said:
Hi guys,
Click to expand...

The series of transformers you linked to are much smaller power-wise than you need for an EVSE...You need something that can pass about 1500 watts at 120v or about 7000 watts at 240v at a minimum. Those are too small...

Do you know if they want to bill for the energy or are willing to provide it for free? That will make a difference in what direction they go. Do they need to meter it?

The light standard idea is good, and as you have posted, the timer issue needs to be worked around. They will have to run an "always hot wire" in the same conduit that currently feeds the light standards with the "timer" hot wire from the building all the way out to the parking lot where you are going to park. The transformer could be installed inside the building or out at the light standard (if it is weather resistant)...

It may cost a bit to get the install done. If I was going to install it, I'd also be thinking about the 2nd driver, etc. Maybe install something that can charge a few cars...How far away do you live?
Click to expand...

They will provide the electricity for free.

I live about 45km away from work. Pretty sure L1 charging would be fine for me, as I am there for 12.5 hours per shift. I think I would only actually NEED the charge from work when it's cold in the winter, or in a few years as my range decreases. If the light standard idea is too costly, I doubt they would go for it. Any estimate? $2,000?
 
I assumed that many parking lots, employers, and shopping centers would have some 120v outlets for engine block heaters that might be available...Guess that is not true in your area?
 
Randy said:
I assumed that many parking lots, employers, and shopping centers would have some 120v outlets for engine block heaters that might be available...Guess that is not true in your area?
Click to expand...


Engine heaters are typically 150-300 watt devices, so outlets designed for them often share circuits. I imagine this will lead to problems with people plugging EV's into them down the road.
 
I wonder if it's possible to pull wires for 120V circuit, through the conduit out to one of the light standards, for simple outdoor receptacle? Cheaper than installing a transformer?
 
Nubo said:
I wonder if it's possible to pull wires for 120V circuit, through the conduit out to one of the light standards, for simple outdoor receptacle? Cheaper than installing a transformer?
Click to expand...

Not sure how they would do that, as the wires are all underground and the closest lights are 100-150 feet from the building. Is there an easy way?
 
hingisfan said:
Nubo said:
I wonder if it's possible to pull wires for 120V circuit, through the conduit out to one of the light standards, for simple outdoor receptacle? Cheaper than installing a transformer?
Click to expand...
Not sure how they would do that, as the wires are all underground and the closest lights are 100-150 feet from the building. Is there an easy way?
Click to expand...
Yeah, pulling wire through 100-150 ft of underground conduit is generally not easy at all unless the conduit is generously oversized and there are multiple pull-boxes along the way...
 
drees said:
hingisfan said:
Nubo said:
I wonder if it's possible to pull wires for 120V circuit, through the conduit out to one of the light standards, for simple outdoor receptacle? Cheaper than installing a transformer?
Click to expand...
Not sure how they would do that, as the wires are all underground and the closest lights are 100-150 feet from the building. Is there an easy way?
Click to expand...
Yeah, pulling wire through 100-150 ft of underground conduit is generally not easy at all unless the conduit is generously oversized and there are multiple pull-boxes along the way...
Click to expand...

Hmmm...guess I'll have to try and scope out a good interior 120v that we could work with....if that fails I think I have to wait for 200km real world range EV.

I'm kind of on the fence anyway, I have a 2009 Saturn Astra that only has 67,000km on it. I got it new for 16k out the door and it's only worth 5k on trade. Will still cost me over 20k to buy a 2013 Leaf SV or $300/month on a 4 year lease after trade-in. I do drive quite a bit so the Leaf would save me over 2k per year. The Saturn could get me through the next 3-5 years until there's a better EV option for me.

Any thoughts guys?
 
hingisfan said:
Nubo said:
I wonder if it's possible to pull wires for 120V circuit, through the conduit out to one of the light standards, for simple outdoor receptacle? Cheaper than installing a transformer?
Click to expand...

Not sure how they would do that, as the wires are all underground and the closest lights are 100-150 feet from the building. Is there an easy way?
Click to expand...


Perhaps another option would be to lay conduit for a circuit that would terminate in some stubs with outlets right at the edge of the parking area. Not sure how motivated they are?

BTW, for the transformer you found, the power rating was not 50 amps, but 50 "VA". To oversimplify, VA is like Watts, so that output is really more like 0.2 Amps. Nowhere near what you need. A transformer capable of supplying the power you need would probably be quite expensive.

An example of something with that level of output (not sure if all the specs are applicable).

http://www.temcoindustrialpower.com/products/Transformers_-_General/TT1974.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


hingisfan said:
Does anyone have anything in writing to request charging access at work that I could borrow? Something nicely written about supporting eco-friendly and emission-free, and low cost charging, etc?
Click to expand...

http://www.chargepoint.com/chargepointnet/email.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Ok, so on my second walk around the plant today I actually found an outdoor 120v outlet in the middle of a couple ground level HVAC units, and it's only about 30-40 feet to several parking spots and no sidewalk in between, just grass and a few evergreens. Not sure yet what amperage is running to it, but I could trace the wiring (piped) back to a power room, and there was nothing else on the same pipe (wires enclosed), so I am assuming that it is a dedicated 120v 15 amp outlet. The plug had a GFCI (standard bathroom style test/reset) on it.

Will the GFCI be a problem?

What does Nissan L1 draw?

What does Nissan L1 draw with EVSE upgrade?

What spec on extension cord would I be looking at needing if needed?

Thanks!
 
hingisfan said:
Ok, so on my second walk around the plant today I actually found an outdoor 120v outlet in the middle of a couple ground level HVAC units, and it's only about 30-40 feet to several parking spots and no sidewalk in between, just grass and a few evergreens. Not sure yet what amperage is running to it, but I could trace the wiring (piped) back to a power room, and there was nothing else on the same pipe (wires enclosed), so I am assuming that it is a dedicated 120v 15 amp outlet. The plug had a GFCI (standard bathroom style test/reset) on it.

Will the GFCI be a problem?

What does Nissan L1 draw?

What does Nissan L1 draw with EVSE upgrade?

What spec on extension cord would I be looking at needing if needed?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Some GFCI can experience nuisance trips with the LEAF. It depends. I charged for 3 months with L1 from a GFCI outlet and had no problems. If you start getting nuisance trips, replacing with a GFCI outlet with less sensitivity might help.

from the factory, L1 draws 12 amps.

EVSE upgrade specs are here: http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Might be useful if the circuit breaker trips on 12A due to other loads, you could reduce the load a bit, but of course slower charging.

Sounds like a 12 gauge, 50 foot extension could work. 10 gauge would be better. Get a high-visibility color.
 
15a breaker must have #14 wire minimum. 20a breaker must have #12 wire minimum.
I believe this unit can be configured to use 15a circuit.
See LCS user's manual... order the LCS-15 model described on page 5 and page 10

On edit: changed ACS (240v model) to LCS (120v model)
 
smkettner said:
15a breaker must have #14 wire minimum. 20a breaker must have #12 wire minimum.
I believe this unit can be configured to use 15a circuit.
See ACS user's manual... order the ACS-15 model described on page 5 and page 10
Click to expand...

I don't see the ACS-15 on their product page....and wouldn't that just be the same as the standard Nissan L1 charge anyway?

Or do you mean ACS-15 as something that can be left at work all the time for all to use?

Something else I thought of, does Nissan L1 EVSE let you select amps like EVSE upgrade or no? And if not, what will Nissan's draw? 12 amps?
 
Yes any 120v would be the same as the oem brick afaik.
You would have to call and verify the product model and availability.
Manual implies two different ACS-15 that will signal 10a or 12a. LEAF oem is 12a.

If you really want faster charging you will need to get 240v. And depending on how the outlets are wired there could well be 240v or could be reconfigured to 240v.

The LCS can be 15 amps 240v circuit with 12a 240v charging if you are limited by wire size.
I am just reading the manual and attempting to match the evse to the unknown supply.
 
smkettner said:
If you really want faster charging you will need to get 240v. And depending on how the outlets are wired there could well be 240v or could be reconfigured to 240v.
Click to expand...
Yep - if this is the only outlet on the circuit, you can rewire it for 240V by changing out the breaker and outlet - then you'll be able to charge at 240V / 12A. Though for your typical work charging, 8 hours on L1 is usually more than enough...
 
I am there for 12.5 hours every shift, so I think L1 will be fine, at least to start. L2 would be sweet to pre-heat in sub-zero though, but first things first, making sure I can charge at all at work.
 

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