Carwings--and correct driving miles

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woodyas

Active member
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
33
First and foremost: have now had the Leaf for over 3 months--and still widely, passionately, and vociferously in love with this damn car. Love the ride, the quiet cabin, and the utter joy of never having to go to a gas station again. (Or...at least till my lease expires in a few years)

Yes...some minor quibbles here and there. But overall, I can bellow this out with axiomatic certainty: the best car I have ever had.

Period.

Quick question, though: I have noticed recently that when I log into carwings from the Owners Portal on the computer that the miles given on each day is not ALWAYS THE CORRECT NUMBER. Everything is set up in settings to transmit from the car to the carwings. And I am getting data each day--just not all the miles on certain days. Is this happening to anybody else? What am I doing wrong?

As for why I care: what can I say...I have fallen into the spell of being a Leaf fanatic. Not good. And taking away from my main hobby of reading books.

Thanks Nissan!
 
="woodyas"
...I have noticed recently that when I log into carwings from the Owners Portal on the computer that the miles given on each day is not ALWAYS THE CORRECT NUMBER. Everything is set up in settings to transmit from the car to the carwings. And I am getting data each day--just not all the miles on certain days. Is this happening to anybody else? What am I doing wrong?...

Here are my suggestions, for you and other CW users.

All 2011-2 LEAFs, AFAIK, have reported the same Carwings odometer and Dash m/kWh error of consistently under-reporting by ~2.5%.

So if your CW miles driven is ~2.5% lower than your dash odometer miles, and your dash m/kWh is showing ~2.5% less than your nav screen m/kWh (0.1 m/kWh lower below ~6 m/kWh, and 0.2 m/kWh lower when you are getting over ~6 m/kWh) this is "normal" for 2011-2012 LEAFs.

Hopefully, Nissan has fixed this error in the 2013s. Any readers have a CW equipped 2013? Please check and report back.

If you are "missing" more miles than this, go to the "rate simulation" page at the CW site.

Here, each "trip" (each start/stop cycle) will be individually reported. Make sure that each of the "trips"you have made each day, is showing up. Each trip will show the same ~2.5% under-report of miles driven as your daily total, and each m/kWh report there will match your dash (if you reset it) for the corresponding trip, again showing the same ~2.5% under-report error.

The Dash, nav screen and CW m/kWh all are mathematically "correct" as a function of the total kWh use reported by CW for every trip, day, or months driving.

It's just that the dash uses the same ~2.5% understated miles to make its calculation of m/kWh as CW does, while the nav screen is always accurate as a function of reported kWh use, as it uses the dash odometer miles, for the m/kWh calculation.

Got it?

BTW, while every LEAF driver, AFAIK, has reported the dash odometer as very close to correct, while using stock tires and wheels, IMO it wouldn't hurt to confirm your dash odometer is correct, by checking with another source, such as Google maps.

Now back to the "rate simulation" page, If you are missing any "trips", that you made on any given day, and every driver is pushing "accept" every time, please report back.

I have missed only a couple of "trips" in the ~12,000 miles since I've been using Carwings (since an update corrected errors in the early LEAFs) so I believe they probably have all been due to operator error on my part, as I make a very quick stab at the screen, and I think I probably just missed "accept" a couple of times.
 
Very cogent breakdown here!

Do I have it all? Not sure.

But thanks for taking the time to saliently spell all that out.

Good stuff.
 
woodyas said:
Very cogent breakdown here!

Do I have it all? Not sure.

But thanks for taking the time to saliently spell all that out.

Good stuff.

Its probably a lot easier to SEE it at the carwings site, than to understand the explanation I posted above.

BTW, if you haven't already, be sure to also check out the regen kWh reports on the CW "rate simulation" page.

Every LEAF has two sources of kWh for charging the battery, those kWh you download from the grid, and those you gain from recycling that grid energy, during descent or deceleration, to use over again.

The "bubble" and center screen reports of kW use just don't give you the view of total regen kWh that you can only get from the CW "trip" reports.
 
Beautiful write ups Ed! I looked at last month and my ratio of kwh consumed to kwh from regen was 4.05. Sounds good to me!
 
DesertDenizen said:
Beautiful write ups Ed! I looked at last month and my ratio of kwh consumed to kwh from regen was 4.05. Sounds good to me!

Is that ratio already calculated for you somewhere at CW?

I had always expressed my regen as r/t (regen/total kW use) rather than as consumed (=grid)/regen.

So, following your suggestion, I checked my c/r ratio. It was 6.0 last month, and 6.28 for January.

I went back to 2012, for a Summer c/r, when I get much greater regen, due to fewer charges past "80%" and higher battery temps (my~55 mile commute which begins and ends with ~2,000 ft total descent and ascent, is only comfortable in winter at "80%" on sunny days) and I got 4.48 for last August.
 
I was just being lazy and divided the total of the Consumption column by the total of the Regeneration column. I would not have guessed regen of 1 kwh for each 4 consumed. It will be interesting to see what I get in the summer. I am exclusively in ECO and rarely use my brakes and coast a lot. Never even looked at the Rate Simulation page until I read your post.
 
I can confirm that the above statement is still the same with the 2013 model. I have the SL version and always wonder why is this the case.
 
FGARCIA25 said:
I can confirm that the above statement is still the same with the 2013 model. I have the SL version and always wonder why is this the case.


Hi, FGARCIA25,

Is the "statement" you refer to this:


...All 2011-2 LEAFs, AFAIK, have reported the same Carwings odometer and Dash m/kWh error of consistently under-reporting by ~2.5%.

So if your CW miles driven is ~2.5% lower than your dash odometer miles, and your dash m/kWh is showing ~2.5% less than your nav screen m/kWh (0.1 m/kWh lower below ~6 m/kWh, and 0.2 m/kWh lower when you are getting over ~6 m/kWh) this is "normal" for 2011-2012 LEAFs...

Or were you referring to something else?

Congratulations on the 2013. Have you tried a 100% to LBW or VLBW range test yet?

With a new 2013 in Florida, you could probably get well over 100 miles without having to try very hard, and (if you wanted to discharge further) maybe even get close to the current MNL long-range record (set in a 2011 MY, but at higher altitude and, possibly, temperature, putting you at a disadvantage) If you wanted to try for it.
 
edatoakrun said:
FGARCIA25 said:
I can confirm that the above statement is still the same with the 2013 model. I have the SL version and always wonder why is this the case.


Hi, FGARCIA25,

Is the "statement" you refer to this:


...All 2011-2 LEAFs, AFAIK, have reported the same Carwings odometer and Dash m/kWh error of consistently under-reporting by ~2.5%.

So if your CW miles driven is ~2.5% lower than your dash odometer miles, and your dash m/kWh is showing ~2.5% less than your nav screen m/kWh (0.1 m/kWh lower below ~6 m/kWh, and 0.2 m/kWh lower when you are getting over ~6 m/kWh) this is "normal" for 2011-2012 LEAFs...

Or were you referring to something else?

Congratulations on the 2013. Have you tried a 100% to LBW or VLBW range test yet?

With a new 2013 in Florida, you could probably get well over 100 miles without having to try very hard, and (if you wanted to discharge further) maybe even get close to the current MNL long-range record (set in a 2011 MY, but at higher altitude and, possibly, temperature, putting you at a disadvantage) If you wanted to try for it.

FYI, the Phoenix Efficiency Rally is coming in May again, and I plan to shatter my record. I will drive at LEAST 180 miles on one charge. :mrgreen:
Remember, when I set that record, the car had already lost 10-11% BC.
 
LEAFfan said:
...FYI, the Phoenix Efficiency Rally is coming in May again, and I plan to shatter my record. I will drive at LEAST 180 miles on one charge. :mrgreen:
Remember, when I set that record, the car had already lost 10-11% BC.


You do have some regional advantages, LEAFfan, but a higher-altitude high-heat LEAFer, could easily beat any Phoenex LEAF record, IMO.


If anyone wants to try for 200 miles in a 2013 MY, I think you might want to make your attempt in or near one of these locations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Rock_Desert" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Salt_Flats" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Their aren't any DC chargers near either location to warm up your battery, but you could use other means to heat it up to maximize your "100%" kWh charge.

You have to wonder about the human factor.

What are the highest ambient temperatures a LEAF driver would be willing to endure over the eight-to-ten hour drive, without using the AC?
 
edatoakrun said:
FGARCIA25 said:
I can confirm that the above statement is still the same with the 2013 model. I have the SL version and always wonder why is this the case.


Hi, FGARCIA25,

Is the "statement" you refer to this:


...All 2011-2 LEAFs, AFAIK, have reported the same Carwings odometer and Dash m/kWh error of consistently under-reporting by ~2.5%.

So if your CW miles driven is ~2.5% lower than your dash odometer miles, and your dash m/kWh is showing ~2.5% less than your nav screen m/kWh (0.1 m/kWh lower below ~6 m/kWh, and 0.2 m/kWh lower when you are getting over ~6 m/kWh) this is "normal" for 2011-2012 LEAFs...

Or were you referring to something else?

Congratulations on the 2013. Have you tried a 100% to LBW or VLBW range test yet?

With a new 2013 in Florida, you could probably get well over 100 miles without having to try very hard, and (if you wanted to discharge further) maybe even get close to the current MNL long-range record (set in a 2011 MY, but at higher altitude and, possibly, temperature, putting you at a disadvantage) If you wanted to try for it.

Thanks edatoakrun !!!!

I am enjoying my 2013 Leaf. I have not tested LBW nor VLBW yet. As close I came was 12% 12 Miles remaining. I will try to test out the LBW today. Right now I am at 67% 65 Miles.

Statement I was agreeing was what you posted above which I have placed below.

...All 2011-2 LEAFs, AFAIK, have reported the same Carwings odometer and Dash m/kWh error of consistently under-reporting by ~2.5%.

So if your CW miles driven is ~2.5% lower than your dash odometer miles, and your dash m/kWh is showing ~2.5% less than your nav screen m/kWh (0.1 m/kWh lower below ~6 m/kWh, and 0.2 m/kWh lower when you are getting over ~6 m/kWh) this is "normal" for 2011-2012 LEAFs...
 
edatoakrun said:
LEAFfan said:
...FYI, the Phoenix Efficiency Rally is coming in May again, and I plan to shatter my record. I will drive at LEAST 180 miles on one charge. :mrgreen:
Remember, when I set that record, the car had already lost 10-11% BC.


You do have some regional advantages, LEAFfan, but a higher-altitude high-heat LEAFer, could easily beat any Phoenex LEAF record, IMO.


If anyone wants to try for 200 miles in a 2013 MY, I think you might want to make your attempt in or near one of these locations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Rock_Desert" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Salt_Flats" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Their aren't any DC chargers near either location to warm up your battery, but you could use other means to heat it up to maximize your "100%" kWh charge.

You have to wonder about the human factor.

What are the highest ambient temperatures a LEAF driver would be willing to endure over the eight-to-ten hour drive, without using the AC?

:lol: You really believe that all it takes is altitude and heat? I guess you've never driven very far on one charge. I seriously doubt anyone in the USA will even break my previous record, yet alone the second one I'm going to do. It takes a lot of skill and patience Ed to drive long distances on one charge. I've been hypermiling since 1980. Bring 'em on!
 
"LEAFfan"
:lol: You really believe that all it takes is altitude and heat?

No.

The primary factor in determining range is speed. AFAIK, you have never stated what your maximum speed, average speed or total drive time was, for your "record" drive. I wish you would, since few if any other other LEAF driver has ever had the opportunity or patience to drive that slowly over a full-charge range test.

"LEAFfan"
I guess you've never driven very far on one charge.

Well, my longest drive is only ~113 miles, last Summer but it was only to VLBW, with over a mile of ascent and descent, on public roads which required me to drive up to ~50 mph for a significant part of the trip. I made the same trip a couple of times this winter, at the same speeds, with both a cooler battery while charging, and much cooler air temps, and went ~97 miles both times, to reach the VLBW.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMO, it is unfortunate you never repeated your May 2012 test in your MY 2011 at lower temperatures, or higher speeds, to see what your range loss would have been in those conditions.

If you really want to make a contribution to other LEAFers, I'd suggest you do a range test NOW-in March with a "new battery", record all the range variables, then repeat it in May, with ~20-30 F higher ambient temps, and see how much further you can drive, to give us all a more complete idea of the 2013 MY low-speed level range.


"LEAFfan"
I seriously doubt anyone in the USA will even break my previous record, yet alone the second one I'm going to do. It takes a lot of skill and patience Ed to drive long distances on one charge. I've been hypermiling since 1980. Bring 'em on!

Sorry LEAFfan, hot air generated on MNL does not increase your range...

Back on-topic, please use Carwings on all future range tests, to record and present your kWh use and kWh regen charging, and show all of us these results.

Good luck in all your future tests, and I'm looking forward to your detailed reports.
 
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