DC-area taxi company wants to go all-electric with Leaf

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/10/24/dc-area-taxi-company-wants-to-go-all-electric-with-nissan-leaf-f/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No way this will work with the Leaf, maybe with the Tesla and lots of superchargers, but even then I doubt it.

madbrain said:

No way this will work with the Leaf, maybe with the Tesla and lots of superchargers, but even then I doubt it.

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Totally disagree.

Great use of an EV - especially in a metro area where speeds are low and idling in traffic is frequent.

Mexico City was absolutely jam packed with VW Beetles as taxi cabs, and were very successful. I'm confident the LEAF can be, provided there is a DC charger at every taxi waiting stand.

TonyWilliams said:

Mexico City was absolutely jam packed with VW Beetles as taxi cabs, and were very successful. I'm confident the LEAF can be, provided there is a DC charger at every taxi waiting stand.

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VW beetles could be refilled in 5 minutes.

Your condition is a pretty damn big one. But even if there was a DC charger at every taxi waiting stand, you are still talking about significant downtime during which the driver is stuck, up to 30 minutes each time. How many miles per day to cab drivers typically drive ?

And long trips just can't be made on the Leaf at all. If the taxi driver goes 70 miles out of a city to drop somebody off, and there is no DC charger there, what then ? He has to stay there overnight to charge on L2/L1 ?

Here's how they're doing it in Tokyo supposedly:
Japan's First Electric Taxi Project Kicks Off

TEG mentioned a CHAdeMO map recently, this is how it looks like for the Tokyo metro area:

davewill said:

Here's how they're doing it in Tokyo supposedly:
Japan's First Electric Taxi Project Kicks Off

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Well yes, that would work if you alternate with some ICEs.
But then you still have many cars idling so you have much higher vehicle ownership costs.
This may work for companies that own or lease their fleet once they figure out the proper ratios of ICEs, EVs, fast chargers and drivers.

But when you are talking about an individual taxicab who owns his car and license as is the case around here, each driver would need to have 2 cars, and somebody would still need to pay for the fast chargers, since the price of a fast charger is about the cost of a 3rd car...

madbrain said:

... This may work for companies that own or lease their fleet once they figure out the proper ratios of ICEs, EVs, fast chargers and drivers.
But when you are talking about an individual taxicab who owns his car and license as is the case around here, each driver would need to have 2 cars, and somebody would still need to pay for the fast chargers, since the price of a fast charger is about the cost of a 3rd car...

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The original DC article specified 40 LEAFs and 56 QCs. Definitely NOT a one man taxi operation. Although if the QCs were available, I think a one man outfit could possibly manage.

Amsterdam has an electric taxi company as well. It works perfectly fine. They started early 2012 and now have about 20 Leafs zooming around (numbers are growing). The website is http://www.taxi-e.nl/en/home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . They are preferred carrier for a lot of companies in the financial district of Amsterdam. I always use them to go to the airport. Free wifi and tablet onboard.

When they started, they only drove around in Amsterdam and to Schiphol Airport (12 miles out of town). But now they drive to The Hague as well (30 miles). They use a couple of fast chargers just in one of the outskirts of Amsterdam, adjacent to the ring. But when I ask them, they tell me they only go charging once a day. Lots of short distance drives.

It might be true that the average american is slightly wider than it's european counterpart and might therefore require a bit more space, but still..For congested areas like NYC, it should be great.

Robster1979 said:

It might be true that the average american is slightly wider than it's european counterpart and might therefore require a bit more space, but still..For congested areas like NYC, it should be great.

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lol.
I guess I must be the only one around here who has ever taken a taxi on a 50 mile freeway trip from an airport to my home. I have done that a few times. I just don't see how this can work with an EV unless there is a QC near the destination. The taxi driver would be stranded.

Most taxi trips are short hauls, not like your 50 mile trip. That's a pretty expensive taxi ride btw But you' re right. There are about 40 fast chargers in the Netherlands. So when Taxi-e runs into a customer like you, they need half an hour charging before heading back

I doubt LEAF will ever work as a Taxi in many US cities, except as a specific Point A to Point B service of less then 50 miles one way. That way you can have a QC at both the points. Even then battery degradation will kill you, in a year.

Robster1979 said:

Most taxi trips are short hauls, not like your 50 mile trip. That's a pretty expensive taxi ride btw But you' re right. There are about 40 fast chargers in the Netherlands. So when Taxi-e runs into a customer like you, they need half an hour charging before heading back

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Yes I know it's an expensive taxi ride but not really much more, than the parking for 2-3 weeks at the airport for an international trip.
The Netherlands is a fairly small country so this may work out there, but still 40 fast chargers nationwide doesn't seem like that many.

madbrain said:

The Netherlands is a fairly small country so this may work out there, but still 40 fast chargers nationwide doesn't seem like that many.

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wikipedia.com said:

A total of 457 Leafs have been sold in the Netherlands through September 2012.

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Just to bring up some history, electric taxis (using battery swapping) were operated quite successfully and profitably in NYC from 1897-1907 and in other cities, and apparently an electric cab driver in New York got the first speeding ticket issued in the U.S.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&biw=1248&bih=665&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=4IaEMFYtINMTSM:&imgrefurl=http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgdisplaylargemeta.cfm%3FstrucID%3D50873%26imageID%3D107209%26word%3DElectric%2520automobiles%26s%3D3%26notword%3D%26d%3D%26c%3D%26f%3D2%26lWord%3D%26lField%3D%26sScope%3D%26sLevel%3D%26sLabel%3D%26num%3D0%26imgs%3D12%26total%3D2%26pos%3D1&docid=wyVcMjPze1_WuM&itg=1&imgurl=http://images.nypl.org/index.php%253Fid%253D107209%2526t%253Dw&w=760&h=619&ei=ywqLUP2ODIbq2AWJ5oGIBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=551&vpy=17&dur=298&hovh=203&hovw=249&tx=104&ty=106&sig=111184210517581865798&page=1&tbnh=154&tbnw=182&start=0&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:81" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That being said, I don't think the Leaf is ideal as a cab; the e-NV200 strikes me as being a better choice, and has been selected by NYC as their future taxi (although there are some concerns about wheelchair accessibility). Judging by the data here (pg. 48),

http://www.schallerconsult.com/taxi/taxifb.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Either will need battery swap or QC to make it through a typical shift.


For those who are interested, from my EV bibliography in the New Members section:

"The Electric Vehicle and the Burden of History"; Kirsch, David; 2000. An academic treatment (originally a PhD. dissertation) of the above, but also includes info on EV developments and use in Europe, commercial use of EV taxis, trucks, streetcars, contemporary cost comparisons between EV, gas and horse commercial vehicles, details of electric utilities boosting or ignoring EVs, etc. Fans of battery exchange ala 'A Better Place' will be interested to learn that mechanized battery exchange was first used by NYC electric taxicabs in 1897. Occasionally a bit slow-going, but well worth it.

I agree with GRA that the Nissan NV200 is the better choice for NYC!

The Netherlands have an extensive network of chargers. In Amsterdam only, there are over 1200 chargers and more than 2500 nationwide and numbers are growing fast. Amsterdam has the highest density of chargers in the world. And it's all 240 volt of course.

And of course you're right, we are a small country, that makes life easier regarding electric mobility!

mkjayakumar said:

Even then battery degradation will kill you, in a year.

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What better way to test that out?

is it safe to supercharge (lev3) several times a day?

toasty said:

is it safe to supercharge (lev3) several times a day?

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With the Leaf's chemistry I'd say the answer is no, not on a regular basis without TMS. It would be interesting see how long the Leaf's battery lasts in a hot D.C. summer if it's getting QC'd every day, maybe more than once. And the same goes for the e-NV200 - The Ford Transit Connect EV might have been a better choice assuming it had a TMS, if Azure Dynamics hadn't declared bankruptcy.