In the market for a used Leaf.

Why do you want to use Carmax? I used the Cars.com search for Leafs under $10,000 within 50 miles of 92801 and found a few candidates.

How about this one? Ten bar October-built 2013 for $8000
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/762012967/overview/
I'm too lazy to figure out if it has a Chademo. Probably not at that price, I'd bet. Not that you need one for your described purpose.

That would meet your 20 mile commute needs for five years, easily, I think. You might not even need to charge every day if you don't use the AC, at least until the battery degrades more.

My used Leaf also had all its Carfax records from Fremont CA. That COULD mean it lived over the hill in someplace hot, but I doubt it. (I verified after purchase that mine lived very near the Bay by information left in the phone and nav systems.) Mine is at 11 bars after 53,000 miles, so probably on the same trajectory as this one but fewer charge cycles.

Took a look at this used Leaf in SD. Obviously a flood car from the HI hurricane last year, plucked a lava rock from the top of the engine compartment. Guy said it was a clean CA car with no problems, HA! The thing is, there was no report of flooding on the carfax.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=forSaleTab_false_0&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=c23843&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=c27190&zip=92117&distance=50&searchChanged=true&modelChanged=true&filtersModified=true&sortType=undefined&sortDirection=undefined#listing=232008136

The funny thing is I read this pre-hurricane article warning residents about flood cars coming from stateside.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/38044700/state-to-residents-keep-an-eye-out-for-flood-damage-vehicles/

The idea of Carmax is intriguing because if stars align, I could possibly have a car from out of state shipped in no risk and get three full years of carpool lane access. A used car already registered in CA will already have it’s three years up.

Carpool lane access would just be a bonus, not a demand. Based on budget/needs/etc, I think I’m looking for a 2015 SL, possibly SV with the right options.

BUT, I’m wondering “how bad” the 2016s actually are? I know there was a software update that was supposed to fix some of the issues, but you guys are the experts.

The reason I ask, prices are fairly similar, and having an 8 year/100,000 battery degradation warranty would be nice. Also, having the longer range to begin with might offset the “issues”.

Again, my commute is about 20 miles round trip, all freeway during rush hour. Other than that, we take our minivan everywhere.

IF you don't mind an S, the early 2016 S has the 24kwh Lizard pack. If you mean the 30kwh packs...it's kind of a crap shoot. They just discovered (officially, anyway) that the early build (late 2015 - Spring? of 2017) 30kwh packs have a high defective cell rate. I'm sure that there are plenty of 30kwh 2017 Leafs out there with no real issues, but the odds of getting one through Carmax or similar...that's a bet I wouldn't make, personally. IF I were forced to buy a 30kwh Leaf, I'd look for one that has excellent stats but has NOT had the BMS update performed by Nissan. I don't know how hard it would be to get that info on a Carmax car, but I'm guessing not easy...

For the record, Carmax is an option but by no means the only one.

Ideally, at least I think, I’d buy from a Nissan dealer to get a Certified Pre-Owned warranty. Although even that seems questionable what the CPO actually covers on a Leaf.

LeftieBiker said:

They just discovered (officially, anyway) that the early build (late 2015 - Spring? of 2017) 30kwh packs have a high defective cell rate.

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Do you have a link about this? Evsenhanced has talked about this for a while, but I haven't seen any official announcements.

LeftieBiker said:

IF I were forced to buy a 30kwh Leaf, I'd look for one that has excellent stats but has NOT had the BMS update performed by Nissan.

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Why are you against the 30 kWh BMS updates? Aren't they supposed to fix the incorrect range calculation and a number of users report success? The worst outcome I've seen is that the update had no effect and didn't improve the range. Is this accurate?

Why are you against the 30 kWh BMS updates? Aren't they supposed to fix the incorrect range calculation and a number of users report success? The worst outcome I've seen is that the update had no effect and didn't improve the range. Is this accurate?

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Here is my reasoning: if a Leaf has had that update, then it may or may not have additional range as indicated by the BMS readings using LeafSpy and capacity bars - you just don't know without a long range test. OTOH, if the car shows 12 bars and SOH without having had the update, then all you have to worry about is a BMS reset if the SOH is really high. I'd choose having just one well-known issue to worry about, instead of one known and one not yet fully understood.

Someone posted a link, IIRC in the 30kwh pack topic, but it may be the one you mention. By "official" I didn't mean that Nissan had announced anything about it, although they may have, for all I know. I just meant a web report at least based on real info - actual cars with failing modules.

Here is the link to the defective cell report:

http://evsenhanced.com/services/30kwh-leaf-cell-imbalance-and-complete-cell-failure/

I still think a 2015 SL is probably where I’ll end up, but now’s the time to ask the questions, not after.

Clearly I’m still learning and this may be a novice question, but even if the 2016’s have potential battery issues, wouldn’t the 8/100,000 degradation warranty cover you? Worst case scenario the car would have been originally purchased second-half of 2015, which would put warranty through 2023. And with only 30k-ish miles, I’d have a long way until 100,000.

Plus having the longer range to start with kind of offsets the loss when compared to a 2015. The warranty claims you’ll have at least 70% capacity after 8/100,000. That would be a range of at least 75 miles in 2023. And if it doesn’t hold up, while being annoying, the warranty will “fix” it.

Or is that not a correct way to look at things?

Yes - the warranty covers any battery issues for 8 years.

krush40 said:

Plus having the longer range to start with kind of offsets the loss when compared to a 2015. The warranty claims you’ll have at least 70% capacity after 8/100,000. That would be a range of at least 75 miles in 2023. And if it doesn’t hold up, while being annoying, the warranty will “fix” it.

Or is that not a correct way to look at things?

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I think it's a good way to look at it. The 30 and 40 kWh packs have a longer warranty than the 24, and the increased range makes them have to go further down before needing replacement. Cell failures would be warranty covered as well.

Personally, I'd buy a 30kWh over a 24 for exactly the reasons you state, price being equal. Also, if you DO decide to ever buy a replacement pack, Nissan will ONLY install the original capacity battery. If you have a 30 kWh, you'll get more capacity AND a longer warranty. Nissan currently charges the same price regardless of capacity for replacement packs... Making the 30 a much better deal.

krush40 said:

The warranty claims you’ll have at least 70% capacity after 8/100,000.

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No,
the warranty in the 30 kWh battery models and later keeps your car above 8 capacity bars for the earlier of 8 years or 100k miles.

^^^
Correct. The verbiage of the US warranty is strictly by bars. Whatever that maps to in terms of capacity, Nissan hasn't been really forthcoming, esp. on 30+ kWh Leafs.

OP can d/l the warranty booklet via https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/navigation/manualsGuide to see for himself.

There was a mapping of capacity bars to approx remaining capacity in the '11 Leaf service manual. See http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/wiki/battery-d1/ under Battery Capacity Behavior. Unfortunately, it was removed from later service manuals and I don't know if it ever returned.

cwerdna said:

^^^
Correct. The verbiage of the US warranty is strictly by bars. Whatever that maps to in terms of capacity, Nissan hasn't been really forthcoming, esp. on 30+ kWh Leafs.

OP can d/l the warranty booklet via https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/navigation/manualsGuide to see for himself.

There was a mapping of capacity bars to approx remaining capacity in the '11 Leaf service manual. See http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/wiki/battery-d1/ under Battery Capacity Behavior. Unfortunately, it was removed from later service manuals and I don't know if it ever returned.

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I thought I had read somewhere that the 9-bar tipping point was around 70%, but am aware it’s not as black and white as with straight numbers.

BUT, I sold my car today so I am officially on the hunt. I thought I found my winner but it sold last night.

For those with SV vs SL: Do the LED headlights make a big enough impact on battery life to care? Or are they powered by the 12 volt?

For those with SV vs SL: Do the LED headlights make a big enough impact on battery life to care? Or are they powered by the 12 volt?

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They are 12 volt, with power coming through the pack, DC-DC converter, and then 12 volt battery. They do not significantly affect range. And the high beams are still the terrible halogen bulbs - same as the non-LED Leaf. Don't consider them a deal breaker either way.

krush40 said:

I thought I had read somewhere that the 9-bar tipping point was around 70%, but am aware it’s not as black and white as with straight numbers.
...
For those with SV vs SL: Do the LED headlights make a big enough impact on battery life to care? Or are they powered by the 12 volt?

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http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192 mentions 70 percent.

IIRC, there have been UK Leaf pages in the past that also referred to approx 70 percent, but the actual warranty booklet doesn't specify. Warranty booklet only talks about bars.

LED headlights are more efficient and they're powered by the 12 volt bus, but that comes from the big battery via DC to DC converter. The efficiency difference is negligible in terms of range impact. The problem is the halogen headlights suck. They're dim. I can tell you that firsthand from having gone from '13 SV w/both packages (which had LED headlights as part of the QC + LED headlights package) to a '13 w/premium only (no QC + LED headlights package).

The problem is the halogen headlights suck. They're dim. I can tell you that firsthand from having gone from '13 SV w/both packages (which had LED headlights as part of the QC + LED headlights package) to a '13 w/premium only (no QC + LED headlights package).

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Everything I've seen says that the "LED" option high beams are the same old halogens. I haven't had both like you, but for me the halogen low beams were just fine - it was the high beams only that sucked. The 2018 finally has good high beams.

For me, the '13 halogen low beams sucked and were a big step down from the '13 factory LED low beams. I don't think anything was changed or improved on this front for '13 to '17 model years.

cwerdna said:

For me, the '13 halogen low beams sucked and were a big step down from the '13 factory LED low beams. I don't think anything was changed or improved on this front for '13 to '17 model years.

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I wonder if this is the general consensus, with me being an exception, or if you got bad headlights...

Luckily I don’t drive a lot at night. Beyond just the idea of LED headlights, some of the other SL features might be nice as well.

There are lots of SVs around me, but not a lot of SLs. I keep going back and forth on which features I think I’ll care about and unfortunately can justify everything. lol