powersurge
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: How many 2011 and 2012 LEAFs are still on the road today?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:18 am

I can imagine that as the EV car saturation develops in the next few years, New electric cars will go up in price. Even If not by a lot, the new EVs will go up in price due to ... the federal and state tax credits will disappear. Then, all of a sudden, all Leafs will suddenly be worth $5-7K more, and it WILL BE WORTH IT TO CHANGE THE BATTERIES...

That is when the true value of having a Leaf will be seen. At this time, people are spoiled in that they can by a PRACTICALLY NEW CAR for $6-9K, and are complaining that a $5000 battery is worth scrapping the car.. Yet, in the regular used car market, people dump $10-15K on a used car (no warranty) like nothing!! Man, no matter how good we have it, we still think we are getting a bad deal..

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Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 261
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737

Re: How many 2011 and 2012 LEAFs are still on the road today?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:39 am

Good points - for those of us in the off-grid energy market, the price of the older Leafs - even with a "degraded" battery is less than what you would pay for any lithium technology based energy storage system (in cents/watt-hour and with high quality BMS). Getting that energy out in-situ does present some technical problems however.
2012 Leaf SL; 34,000 miles. 12 bars - Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
4000 watts Grid-tied solar. 3000 watts (level II) off-grid solar Leaf charging capable.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1334
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: How many 2011 and 2012 LEAFs are still on the road today?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:35 am

I have no insight to this question. But my 2012 is at about 43k miles and down to about 80% capacity. It serves my needs very well, and would continue to do so with only 50% capacity since I have a short commute and can charge at home and at work. All of my errands are close, too; I don't often drive more than 30 miles in a day.

The reason that I would replace it with a newer EV is that the newer EV could do more rather than the 2012 Leaf no longer doing what I bought it for. That is a real temptation. But again, it's not about a limitation of having an older car. For me, I could continue to drive my Leaf for probably another 10 years on the original battery. But I may choose not to.

A lot of 2011/2012 original owners are probably in a similar situation. We were early adopters. We knew what sacrifices the cars would require and were ok with that. But now that newer, better, cars are arriving, the temptation is to upgrade. Unlike that 10-year-old PC that can no longer handle even browsing the web (because ads now require so much more processing power), my Leaf will continue to perform the function for which I bought it for years to come.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

webb14leafs
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:43 am
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2017

Re: How many 2011 and 2012 LEAFs are still on the road today?

Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:27 am

powersurge wrote:I can imagine that as the EV car saturation develops in the next few years, New electric cars will go up in price. Even If not by a lot, the new EVs will go up in price due to ... the federal and state tax credits will disappear. Then, all of a sudden, all Leafs will suddenly be worth $5-7K more, and it WILL BE WORTH IT TO CHANGE THE BATTERIES...

That is when the true value of having a Leaf will be seen. At this time, people are spoiled in that they can by a PRACTICALLY NEW CAR for $6-9K, and are complaining that a $5000 battery is worth scrapping the car.. Yet, in the regular used car market, people dump $10-15K on a used car (no warranty) like nothing!! Man, no matter how good we have it, we still think we are getting a bad deal..


I would argue the opposite of the first point. Losing the tax rebates will force automakers to lower prices, not raise prices. That's why there are rumors of Nissan trying to set the MSRP of the new Leaf at $24K. This is the price it would need to be without tax rebates.

The price of used Leaf's will go up based on demand, which will go up when more people realize how much fun and cost-savings they provide, in addition to being better for the environment. I think the used market is "fast-follower" market that takes new technologies to scale. I bought a used leaf about a month ago, and have already convinced several people who hadn't even considered an EV to look into it. They approach me every day with new deals they found on autotrader. It's only a matter of time before they close a deal.

I totally agree that a new battery will be totally worth it, and shouldn't prevent anyone from buying a used car at their current prices. I bought my 2014 with 14,000 miles on it for $10K. In 3-5 years I wouldn't hesitate to pay for a battery. The thing about EVs is that the ride quality doesn't degrade with age like an ICE car. How much would a used civic cost if it would ride like new for 200,000 miles?

rmay635703
Posts: 300
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: How many 2011 and 2012 LEAFs are still on the road today?

Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:30 am

If the EV market continues to expand there will likely end up being a good used supply of replacement batteries banked up, allowing people to maintain their cars

powersurge
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: How many 2011 and 2012 LEAFs are still on the road today?

Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:23 am

I can't see that EV prices will FALL in the future. I cant see Nissan selling the new Leaf for $24K because it is a bad business model to sell a futuristic car at fire sale prices.

Tesla commands a high price for their EVs, and the other Electric cars should sell them at a price which (maybe a bit higher than ICE cars) will make customers want to enter the futuristic transportation arena. People will buy, and pay a premium on something they feel is a luxury, not on something that gets deeply discounted.... Then they lose the sense of relative value when something is cheap...

Look at Apple... People camp out for weeks to gladly shell out tons of money when a new product comes out. Also, what would happen to the price of diamonds if they tried to get everyone to buy "just some rocks they found in the ground..."

WetEV
Posts: 1670
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: How many 2011 and 2012 LEAFs are still on the road today?

Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:35 pm

powersurge wrote:I can't see that EV prices will FALL in the future.


The production cost of the EV is falling. Why should the price not follow?
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

bowthom
Gold Member
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 307
Location: Portland Oregon

Re: How many 2011 and 2012 LEAFs are still on the road today?

Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:06 pm

Hello,
My 11 Leaf just hit 60k miles. The battery is at 10 bars (77%) and it still serves my needs perfectly. I will drive it till the battery hits 50% to 60% then replace the battery. My calculations at 60k miles say I've already saved $5650 over fuel costs for the vehicle it replaced. At our Prius' efficiency it comes to $4125. Anyway you slice it the cost of a new battery will be more than compensated for in savings. So too will the second battery be.
Reserv Apr 20 - Ord Aug 31
Red - ETEC trim
BLINK inst 3/14/11 (rev 2.1.2B)
P1213 4/29/11 - Charger repl 6/8/11
P1273 2/15/12 - P32270 10/2/13
Michelin MXV4
TCU upgrd 2/15/17
-1bar 11/8/14 -2bars 6/28/16
Est. del 2/28/11

Deliver 2/23/11 - 59k+ mi

Tpsfoto
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:02 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Jul 2015

Re: How many 2011 and 2012 LEAFs are still on the road today?

Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:28 am

I have a pearl white 2012 SL with under 26k......just lost bar #4 .....I get 60 miles at best with a level 2 charge....slightly more when using level 1 charger. But I usually loose 15 miles immediately within a 2-3 mile trip. My regen is barely there....went to trade it in and was offered $3500.00 for a car that is nearly spotless. My battery warranty is good til Dec 17 this year....so I will have it replaced......maybe then I will keep it or try to sell privately.

jjeff
Posts: 1184
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: How many 2011 and 2012 LEAFs are still on the road today?

Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:18 am

Tpsfoto wrote:I have a pearl white 2012 SL with under 26k......just lost bar #4 .....I get 60 miles at best with a level 2 charge....slightly more when using level 1 charger. But I usually loose 15 miles immediately within a 2-3 mile trip. My regen is barely there....went to trade it in and was offered $3500.00 for a car that is nearly spotless. My battery warranty is good til Dec 17 this year....so I will have it replaced......maybe then I will keep it or try to sell privately.

With a new battery it should regain all regen and be basically like a new car, even better as the new battery will be more heat resistant and last longer :) If you still want a EV and are OK with the original range of your Leaf I'd say keep it, not much better available yet and even with a new battery you'd be lucky to get 1/4th the cost of new :(
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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