Schneider EVSE and charge timer questions

I'm having issues with getting my Leaf to charge most days when I first plug it in. I keep trying different timer settings, and even the timer override switch, but the car still won't charge. Here's what *usually* happens:
1) When I shut the car off, the dash indicates "Charge Timer: ON", all ready to go.
2) I pop the hatch and plug in my Schneider EVSE.
3) The LEAF beeps ONCE as soon as I plug in the J1722.
4) I hear the contactor in the Schneider click, applying power to the Leaf.
5) The Leaf beeps TWICE, and the dash lights indicate the level of charging.
6) The Schneider units drops out, and the front panel light turns solid red/orange.
7) The Leaf's dash indicators change to the 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3,.....indication.
8) The owner's portal indicates that power is not being supplied to the Leaf.
Ben at Schneider support hasn't been much help at all. I've asked him if there are diagnostic codes in the Schneider unit that might indicate why the charge is stopping, but he hasn't supplied any help there either. But, at the same time, I'm not fully convinced that I know what I am doing with the timers. At the moment I have them both set:
1:10 AM START
1:00 AM STOP
The only difference is the 80% vs 100% charge. Is it my correct understanding that ANYTIME within that 1:10 AM to 1:00 AM window I should be able to plug and unplug as many times as I need to, and the timer will always be active, and the car will always charge to the appropriate level?
Also, let's say that I plug in at 5 PM, and the car finishes charging by 10 PM. When the next timer activates at 1:10 AM, will it try to charge again, at the % rate the new timer tells it? This is important to me, as I want a 100% charge on Saturdays and Sundays, so I need to know how to work it properly.
P.S. - Also, if I push the timer override button, what often happens is the same as above, except I will only get a blinking third light on the dash, which can indicate one of several things apparently.
I also must mention that my factory EVSE is out being modified for 240 VAC, so I don't have it to compare results. It will probably be back Wednesday.
Also, many times, if I keep trying about 10 times, the car will finally start charging normally, but this is very frustrating.

I think the main problem you have is your Schneider has detected a fault. After the negotiation sequence, the red/orange LED should never glow. If the fault is intermittent, it could produce all the other random results you've seen.


When you first plug the EVSE into the charging port, the Schneider and the LEAF go through a negotiation sequence, at first, where there are a lot of beeps and thumps. If successful, and the LEAF's timer has been set to charge at some later time, the LEAF's dash lights will do that 1,2,3,1,2,3 sequence, but the Schneider's center LED will glow green. A solid red/orange LED on the Schneider indicates it has detected a fault. You should never see that after the negotiation sequence is complete.

If the current time is after the start time set by the timer (or you push the timer override button), charging should begin immediately after the negotiation sequence is complete. Depending on the state of charge of the LEAF's battery, the first blue LED on the dash will blink, or the first will be solid and the second will blink, or the first two will be solid and the third one will blink. On the Schneider side, the center LED will glow green and the first of the LEDs in the ring around the center will blink green. After an hour of charging is complete, the first LED in the ring will glow solid green and the second LED in the ring will blink green, and so on until charging is complete, when the LEDs in the ring will glow solid green (how many are glowing green depends on how long the charge took to complete).

There should be no difference in the negotiation sequence between having your timer set on 80% or 100%. That only affects the end time. If you plug in after the start time on your timer, or override your timer, the negotiation sequence should immediately be followed by charging.

If you plug in before the start time on your timer, within a few minutes, the 1,2,3,1,2,3 blinking of the LEDs on the LEAFs dash will stop, and the Schneider will sit with a solid green center LED until it’s time for charging to begin.

No matter how anything else is set, you should never see the red/orange LED on after the negotiation sequence is done.


It is possible that the diode in your LEAFs charger has fried. One test you could perform is take your car to the dealer and try to charge it off of their AV unit. It should work ok. Then, see if you can locate another public charging station with a ChargePoint unit. It should fail. Or, try to find someone else with a Schneider. It should fail there, too.

Weatherman said:

I think the main problem you have is your Schneider has detected a fault.

Click to expand...

Yes, that is what I told Ben at Schneider support, but he has failed to give me any way to troubleshoot WHAT fault it is detecting. At first I suspected a ground fault, due to very rainy and humid weather we were having, but the weather now is perfect. What is really strange is that most times it disconnects shortly after the charging has started. With the cover off the Schneider unit, there is a blinking LED on the board. It gives 3 quick blinks, pauses, etc. I'm hoping that means something to them.
The unit charges fine at the Jupiter Town Hall charging stations, but they are not AV units. They look similar to these:

If you can manage to get all the way down to West Palm Beach, you might want to try this station:

http://carstations.com/11055" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My diode tests fine, according to my DVM. After about a dozen tries it will usually stay charging, but today was more like 20 times. It worked fine for the first week, but seems to be getting worse. I'm going to call Ben at Schneider again tomorrow.

davewill said:

The car signals to the EVSE to turn on power by placing a specified resistive load on the +12v/-12v pilot signal. It is theoretically possible to get the same load from dropping the handle into a puddle of dirty water. The diode allows the load to only affect the positive side of the signal, and the EVSE is supposed to check for this to be sure that it's really a car that's loading the signal before turning on the high voltage.

Click to expand...

So, if the diode is working properly, will it clip the positive pulses, or the negative? With no connection, I read 11.8 volts on the control wire. When first plugged into the Leaf, the voltage drops to +8.5 VDC, but then I see it go negative, to -3.0 VDC, when the contactor closes. After the fault, the voltage goes to +5.8 VDC. If I understand you correctly, once the cord is plugged into the Leaf I should ONLY see a negative voltage, right? I know that using a voltmeter (DVM) on the wire really isn't the right tool, because this is actually a 1 khz pilot signal, but I didn't feel like dragging out the scope yet.
Another thing interesting is that even after the fault, and the Schneider contactor is opened, I still hear some kind of noise coming from the Leaf, like a fan running, until I unplug the J1722.

Maybe this will help:

http://sologiccal.blogspot.com/2011/08/j1772-pilot-signal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


1. +12V DC (J1772 not plugged in)
When plugged in the Leaf sees the +12V DC & Proximity and knows it is plugged in. The resistors pull the pilot down to +9V (via the diode). The EVSE sees the +9V DC and knows the car/charger is there so it changes the pilot signal to +12V / -12V AC (1kHz) signal with the top half being dropped to +9V via the diode and resistor.

2. +9V / -12V AC (car plugged in but not charging).
The car now switches another resistor in parallel to the first to drop the pilot to +6V. EVSE sees +6V and closes contactor.

3. +6V / -12V AC (car charging)

Your -3v reading might be from the +6v and -12v levels on the Control Pilot.

The +12 with no PWM Control is right to start. The car loads the 12v down to 9v to tell the EVSE that the car is connected.

Then, the EVSE should start the PWM "square" wave CP signal, +9v (12v loaded down to +9v by the car) to -12v, telling the car the Max-Current available by the duty cycle of the CP. At 10% for 6 amps, a L1 (12 amp) would be a 20% duty cycle.

The car then loads the CP signal a bit more (+6v and -12v) to ask the EVSE to "turn ON" the contactor (relay) to provide power to the car's AC inputs. The car can finally measure the input voltage to detect L1 type operation (voltages around 120v AC) or L2 operation (voltages in the 208 to 240 AC range).

Then, depending upon the Max-Current from the EVSE, the input voltage, and the car's internal charger's own capabilities, and the battery's estimated State Of Charge (fullness), the charging-controller can calculate the expected charge time and charging current to use.

Then, if charging is to start immediately, the car's charger starts drawing current.

If the charging is to start later, the car usually removes the "turn ON" load from the CP line, rerurning to +9v (and -12v), waiting for the calculated Start Time before again asking the EVSE to "turn ON" the AC Power again.

An EVSE might think that charging has finished.
Or, that the car failed to "begin" charging.
Or, the EVSE might have found the -12v loaded down (when the +12v is loaded down), indicating a shorted Diode (or no diode) in the car.

Note that the Nissan Panasonic and AV EVSEs do not produce -12v on the CP (they use 0v instead), and they skip "testing" for the diode at all.

So, from your description, it sounds like there could be some defect in your EVSE. However, the shorted diode was the first thing to look for. Did you get about 2.5k in one direction and "infinite" (high) resistance in the other direction when you tested?

garygid said:

Did you get about 2.5k in one direction and "infinite" (high) resistance in the other direction when you tested?

Click to expand...

Well, I don't have a proper VOM for testing the diode, only a DVM. On ohm X 100 I see 166K in one direction and infinity in the other. If I use the "diode test" setting, I see the normal ".845" reading in one direction, and infinity in the other, which is how most silicon doides test on it. Now I wished I'd had picked up that old Simpson at the flea market the other week.
Today for some reason the unit is behaving again. :? I have plugged the car in 3 times, and it has started charging normally each time! Its tough to call Schneider and complain when it won't act up today.

keydiver said:

But, at the same time, I'm not fully convinced that I know what I am doing with the timers. At the moment I have them both set:
1:10 AM START
1:00 AM STOP
The only difference is the 80% vs 100% charge. Is it my correct understanding that ANYTIME within that 1:10 AM to 1:00 AM window I should be able to plug and unplug as many times as I need to, and the timer will always be active, and the car will always charge to the appropriate level?
Also, let's say that I plug in at 5 PM, and the car finishes charging by 10 PM. When the next timer activates at 1:10 AM, will it try to charge again, at the % rate the new timer tells it? This is important to me, as I want a 100% charge on Saturdays and Sundays, so I need to know how to work it properly.
P.S. - Also, if I push the timer override button, what often happens is the same as above, except I will only get a blinking third light on the dash, which can indicate one of several things apparently.
I also must mention that my factory EVSE is out being modified for 240 VAC, so I don't have it to compare results. It will probably be back Wednesday.
Also, many times, if I keep trying about 10 times, the car will finally start charging normally, but this is very frustrating.

Click to expand...

1:10 START and 1:00 STOP ?????

How about try 12:10a START & 11:50p STOP.

Otherwise if it stops before it starts it would not seem to get anywhere.
Don't get too fancy with the timers overlapping until you find something simple that works.

OK, a little update on my Schneider/charging issue:
Ben from Schneider got a few engineers on the phone with me. They had me interupt the ground wire between my Schneider unit and the breaker panel, put my DVM in series with the ground wire, and read the current on the ground wire while charging. Once the Leaf started charging, the current started around 10ma AC, and slowly rose, until leveling off at about 17ma! Just as a reminder, the GFI is set to trip if the leak current exceeds 5ma, the same as household GFI outlets. The engineers told me their 2011 Leaf only shows 1-2ma of leakage.
So, as a comparison, my dealer brought by his 2011 demo Leaf. Test results - 2.0 ma. Now the question becomes: is this something changed between 2011 and 2012 Leafs, or just something wrong with my car?
I asked JupiterLeaf to bring his 2012 to my house this evening, and his 2012 Leaf tests at only 1.5ma!
What is interesting, and irritating, is that my leakage has actually gone down in the past few days. I tested yesterday, and it was only 12-13ma. Earlier today it tested at 9-10ma, and while JupiterLeaf was here my Leaf tested at only a little over 5ma. BTW, it has also been charging just fine for the past few days. :?
This all began a few weeks ago when we had some very wet, rainy weather, and I do admit to running through some deep puddles. I have yet to look at the 240 AC wiring from the charge port to the Leaf charger, but does anyone think it is possible for water to get into the connectors or wiring in there at all? I would think that Nissan would have that stuff all sealed and gooped up with sealant to prevent this.

Setting the LEAF timers:

Whatever the Start and Stop times for day "X", the Start time is always IN day "X", and the Stop time ALWAYS is LATER than the Start time, even if the Stop time must be "pushed" into day "X+1".

So, Start at 1:10 am, then Stop at 1:00 am means 1:00 am THE NEXT DAY.

Yeah, I got the timer part under control Gary, but do you have any ideas on my current leakage issue?

If it is the GFI kicking the evse off then document what you have tested and ask the dealer to investigate a fix.
A repetable problem should be easy to fix.

My salesman from the dealership was here when I did the back-to-back comparison, 17ma on my Leaf and 2ma on his, so I have a good eyewitness.

Yep, get Nissan (through a dealer) to investigate the higher-than-normal Ground currents.

Well, just to update everyone on this issue:
If you recall, my Schneider EVSE is tripping its GFI because of excessive ground current while charging. I finally made an appointment to take it to the local dealer today. I even constructed a test setup for them, with my milliammeter inline, so their tech could see the leakage current for himself, because I really doubt they have a piece of test equipment for this.
So...the service manage now calls me, basically telling me there is no problem with the car, because they can pull no error codes, and the car charged to 100%! :x
I asked him what type of test equipment he is using to test the leakage current, and he says it is "Nissan approved test equipment, and that is all he knows". He asked for my model and serial number of my Schneider EVSE, so he can feed that info to Nissan support. I REALLY doubt that they even used the test setup I gave them, and they are already trying to point the finger at the Schneider unit, since the factory EVSE doesn't trip. I tried to maintain my composure, but its really tough when these guys have no idea what they are even looking for. I got really pissed when I checked Carwings earlier, and saw that it was charged to 100%. How are they supposed to test the charge leak current if the car is fully charged????
Sorry for the rant, but I'm a little upset right now.

Keydiver, We have talked on the phone about this one.

Did not get a chance to read the whole thread. Did you test with other EVSEs around town? This would help characterize it better.

When my charging troubles first started, all indications pointed to the Schneider EVSE. Well, we replaced it and the problem re-appeared after 6 hours of charging. That is what got me to investigate the car's on-board charger.

It looks like just a few of us (can count on one hand) have had similar troubles. You have been through enough with a brand new car to have the on-board charger replaced (as i did mine, with a supportive dealer). The Schneider is a happy camper now.

Peter,
The problem is that any other charger I use seems to work fine. Evidently the GFI threshhold is set lower in the Schneider unit, about 5ma. I just picked up my LEAF, problem unresolved. They are waiting to hear back from their Nissan support contact, who also insists that if there was a ground fault the Leaf's diagnostics would pick up on it and throw a code. :roll: He also talked them through the diode test (diode OK) and a resistance test of the J1772 connector (infinity, as I could have told them).
They refused to use the test setup I provided to them, because it wasn't "Nissan Approved". :roll:

Another update about my Schneider issue: the 2 techs from Nissan were here at my house again today, armed with more test equipment this time. They brought a DVM with a switchable filter in it, to eliminate high frequency readings. Without the filter, my Leaf, and 2 other Leafs they brought here today, reads ~25ma of current on the ground wire while charging. With the filter turned on, which mainly filters out >1 KHz, the readings were almost zero. So, it isn't really a ground fault we are seeing, but high frequency garbage, which is causing the Schneider unit to give a false fault condition. What really blew my mind was that both the other 2012 Leafs had almost exactly the same readings, and tripped my Schneider EVSE, while the other 2 Leafs I have tested here at my house, one 2011 and one 2012, were just fine, with ~2ma showing on my DVM. It appears that the circuit that Schneider has chosen to use is not only more sensitive, 5ma trip instead of 20ma like everyone else, but it also does not sharply filter out the high frequency components feeding back out of the charger on to the AC.
Like any other switching supply, the Leaf charger does produce some noise, mostly in the 20-30 KHz region. The other units Nissan has tested, Panasonic, AV and Ecotality, all have more immunity to this noise than the Schneider.
I'm not sure where all this is going to lead. Until a lot more Leaf owners start having this problem, I don't know if Schneider will bother raising their trip current or adding any filtering. Or, they might point the finger back at Nissan, and tell them their onboard filtering is insufficient. Fortunately, in the meantime, I have my modded factory EVSE which is working just fine, never tripped even once. I am going to get the chip numbers off the board of the Schneider unit, and see if I can add a small RC filtering network to kill some of the garbage it is seeing. I don't think it will take much to drop it below the threshhold where it is tripping.