Electrician says an L2 EVSE install is not possible! :(

Hi there LEAFers,

Ugh, got some disappointing news today. The electrician (very highly-rated from the Tesla site) says that they cannot install my L2 EVSE in my townhome because the breaker on the meter for my unit only reads '60' or 60a. However, the breaker box on my sub-panel reads '100a', though it's entirely possible that I'm only getting 60a to the unit.

This is the 5th person I've spoken to about a bid. One other electrician said it was impossible without asking me any questions about the units, though maybe he knew about them. Another said he'd charge $2500, with no mention of it being impossible. I got a quote for $2375 from another install, who didn't mention any limitations based on amperage to the unit.

So, let's say I only have 60a to my unit, just like the other townhomes. Is there no way to install a 32a Level 2 EVSE if I'm not using the washer/dryer or any other major appliances at the time? Wouldn't a 40a breaker for the EVSE work?

Have you encountered this before? Is there any other solution beyond L1 trickle-charging? Trickle charging can almost work if I visit the L3 charger once a week or more, but this is an annoying and more expensive solution.

All help is appreciated, and I need to sort this in case I have to send the Chargepoint L2 back to Amazon.

Thanks much!

Electrical code will not let you "promise" to not use other loads in the house concurrently. It is a safety issue.
Are you willing to remove the dryer ? Can you convert it to a lower current device or swap to NG ?

E.g., this dryer
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Whirlpool-3-4-cu-ft-120-Volt-White-Compact-Electric-Vented-Dryer-with-Flexible-Installation-LDR3822PQ/203576349
only requires a 20 Amp breaker. Most dryers are spec'd for a 30 Amp breaker.

This youtube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh-j0sWBEJA
is interesting. The heat pump dryer pulled 2.6 Amps maximum ;-)
I presume it does not even need a dedicated circuit although it is 240V

If a 32 Amp L2 is not possible, how about 24 Amp or 16 Amp ?

My question would be is a 240 volt circuit of any amperage possible? If 20 amp circuit is possible you can throttle your EVSE to 80% of the breaker value (16 amps, 3.8kW). Even a 15 amp breaker would allow 12 amps (2.8kW).

SageBrush said:

Electrical code will not let you "promise" to not use other loads in the house concurrently. It is a safety issue.
Are you willing to remove the dryer ? Can you convert it to a lower current device or swap to NG ?

E.g., this dryer
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Whirlpool-3-4-cu-ft-120-Volt-White-Compact-Electric-Vented-Dryer-with-Flexible-Installation-LDR3822PQ/203576349
only requires a 20 Amp breaker. Most dryers are spec'd for a 30 Amp breaker.

This youtube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh-j0sWBEJA
is interesting. The heat pump dryer pulled 2.6 Amps maximum ;-)
I presume it does not even need a dedicated circuit although it is 240V

If a 32 Amp L2 is not possible, how about 24 Amp or 16 Amp ?

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Great point, and I would be willing to reduce the amperage of the charger or get a different charger altogether. Doesn't have to be 32a, but it would be nice to have more than 120v.

KeiJidosha said:

My question would be is a 240 volt circuit of any amperage possible? If 20 amp circuit is possible you can throttle your EVSE to 80% of the breaker value (16 amps, 3.8kW). Even a 15 amp breaker would allow 12 amps (2.8kW).

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Yes! See, I knew I would get some reasonable answers. I would gladly reduce the amperage of the EVSE, but I'd like something beyond just 120v Level 1 trickle charging. I know Clipper Creek makes some lower amperage units. I have the 32a Chargepoint unit, but I still have time to get a refund.

Thanks, I will ask about this. The one company seems insistent that it can't be done, even when I asked about lower amperages. I would be happy with 16 amps or a 15a....just something faster than 120v standard.

I don't need 6 hour charging to full, but I do want more than 20+ hour charge to full so I can commute every day when the mood strikes (60 mile round trip). Of course, at SoCal HOV speeds, this eats up much more than 60 miles.

Right now, the Level 1 EVSE trickle-charger from Nissan is plugged in to the 120v outlet, charging at 12 amps. Since I'm already using 12 amp, couldn't I upgrade to a higher kW EVSE and upgrade that outlet to a Nema 14-50 or some such @ 240v to get faster charging? Could the upgrade to a Nema 14-50 be done at the outlet if I kept things at 12a?

The rating for the sub-panel only counts if it's too low - it can rated as high as you like, but won't be able to provide more power than it receives. I concur with the others: hire an electrician to put in a 30 amp dryer circuit and use a 24, 20 or 16 amp EVSE. If necessary, tell him he can install a 20 amp breaker for it, in which case you'd need a 16 amp L-2 EVSE with a dryer type plug.

LeftieBiker said:

The rating for the sub-panel only counts if it's too low - it can rated as high as you like, but won't be able to provide more power than it receives. I concur with the others: hire an electrician to put in a 30 amp dryer circuit and use a 24, 20 or 16 amp EVSE. If necessary, tell him he can install a 20 amp breaker for it, in which case you'd need a 16 amp L-2 EVSE with a dryer type plug.

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Makes perfect sense. It's 60a then. No worries.

So, I'll change tack here and ask about a 30a dryer circuit, and then return this EVSE in exchange for one that works with 30a. Even if it's a 20a breaker, it would still make my life much easier charging every night for a 60 mile round trip commute that uses up a lot of battery (at HOV speeds).

I have options! Thanks to everyone so far. Fill in any more detail as you like, but I'm gonna pack up this Chargepoint now and send it back ASAP.

I guess once I know which amperage breaker I can get, it'll guide which EVSE I can buy based on amperage ceiling.

Ask your electrician if your panel can support a 15-, 20-, or 30-ampere 240-volt (or 208-volt circuit if panel is supplied from 2 phases of 208Y/120-volt source). Then choose an L2 EVSE to match the largest circuit your panel can support (12, 16, or 24 amperes, respectively). If your line-to-line voltage is 208, make sure you buy an EVSE that is rated for the range from 208 to 240 volts.

I would ask if a 30 amp circuit is possible. If not have a 20 amp circuit installed. Return your 32 amp evse and don't purchase another until the circuit is installed and you know the proper unit to buy. Print a spec sheet and install instructions on what you expect to buy for both the possible 24 amp and 16 amp evse.

GerryAZ said:

Ask your electrician if your panel can support a 15-, 20-, or 30-ampere 240-volt (or 208-volt circuit if panel is supplied from 2 phases of 208Y/120-volt source). Then choose an L2 EVSE to match the largest circuit your panel can support (12, 16, or 24 amperes, respectively). If your line-to-line voltage is 208, make sure you buy an EVSE that is rated for the range from 208 to 240 volts.

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Awesome, I will do this. This gives me many more options over simply being rejected because I already bought a 32a EVSE. It's weird, because if I were an electrician, I would offer this solution as a backup plan. Why would an electrician turn the job entirely without bringing up this obvious workaround? It's now obvious to me (thanks to all of you), but it did occur to me that I was charging at 12a just fine....it's just that 12a is slow and more expensive at 120v.

Okay, I'm going to ask about this with the current and another electrician in my area. Then, I'll consider a Clipper Creek unit under the amp rating which works for my situation.

Is it possible to convert an outlet to 240v or does it always have to be run from the sub-panel? Problem is that my sub-panel is in the bathroom, and running conduit from the bathroom, through a small patio and to the garage is expensive and labor-intensive.

Thanks so much, everyone. I'll let ya know what happens in this thread if I get a good result (or even if I don't).

smkettner said:

I would ask if a 30 amp circuit is possible. If not have a 20 amp circuit installed. Return your 32 amp evse and don't purchase another until the circuit is installed and you know the proper unit to buy. Print a spec sheet and install instructions on what you expect to buy for both the possible 24 amp and 16 amp evse.

Click to expand...

Copy that. I'm already returning my 32a EVSE and that's exactly the plan now that I know more....not going to buy any EVSE until I get the upgraded circuit installed. Thank you for the advice. I'll check on 30a and work down from there. In fact, the EVSE I have is already boxed up and labeled to go back to Amazon, and I've already sent a letter to the electrician, asking about this possibility. I'm pinging a new electrician (more local) tomorrow, also Tesla-recommended.

It would be very nice if I could find a forum of people who actually live near me. I'm looking!

Is it possible to convert an outlet to 240v or does it always have to be run from the sub-panel?

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The outlet isn't the source of the 240 or 208 volts - it's the cable and the breakers used for it at the service panel. If you had a 20 amp 120 volt outlet that was connected directly to the panel, with no other outlets on the circuit, you could convert that to a 20 amp 240 volt or 208 volt circuit, by having the Neutral wire (which isn't used by charging stations) converted to a second Hot supply wire. If you had just a 15 amp circuit - again with no other outlets - you could convert that to a 15 amp 208 or 240 volt circuit, but then you'd need a 12 amp max charging station or cable.

By the way, OP
Be aware of a detail in the lingo:

A '32 Amp' EVSE requires a 40 Amp breaker, wiring, and outlet
A '24 Amp' EVSE requires a 30 Amp breaker, wiring, and outlet
A '16 Amp' EVSE requires a 20 Amp breaker, wiring, and outlet

Strange, no ?
It happens because the electrician thinks about peak load while the EVSE manufacturers advertise continuous load. Electric code requires that continuous load be no more than 80% of peak load, and so it follows that peak load is 125% of continuous.

When you told your electrician you want to install a '32 Amp EVSE', their answer was effectively "the rest of your home has more than 20 Amp calculated maximum load so it is impossible."

Why mention this ? Dropping from '32 Amp' EVSE to '24 Amp' EVSE will save you 10 Amps of rated load (40 - 30). Between that and possibly swapping to a lower rated dryer, I see L2 in your future. You may want to ask the electrician who has already been out to your place how many Amps the calculated Apt load is now, and what part of that is the dryer. The other possible problem is inadequate panel space for another 240V breaker. If that pops up then you either will require a sub-panel or you can consider derating your current dryer circuit to 120V to save space (and put in a dryer that matches.)

Last piece of advice: avoid the 'Tesla approved' electricians. I don't doubt their competency but they tend to be expensive and unnecessary.

Good luck !

If you have a 24 amp evse just tell them you want a clothes dryer receptacle installed.

Sounds like you have a 60 amp service going into a 100 amp main. With residential wiring I see all kinds of messed up completely illogical stuff like that all the time.
My now rental house had something like that when we got it, had 4 gauge wire on a 70 amp breaker going into a two small 100 amp each panels.
An electrician would have charged at least $5000 to bring my place up to code.

You could ask the electrician to install the biggest 240v circuit he thinks it can handle and buy your evse based on that.
You may end up having to run a 240v, 12 or 16 amp evse. But that still beats the heck out of 120v charging.

You might have luck exploring the concept of a modern day Miser Switch. I have one of these installed and operating wonderfully in a fully-electric coach house (70 amp main breaker on the panel):

https://dcc.technology/

I had 2 obsolete panels, full and over loaded.
I just went ahead and removed that old junk then installed a proper modern 30 space 200 amp QO panel back in 2012.

In Canada we now have this option, electric vehicle management system :

https://www.ebmag.com/code-file/electric-vehicle-energy-management-systems-20149

I am sure there is an equivalent in the NEC, but sometimes it's more beneficial/economical just to upgrade the electrical service.

ElectricEddy said:

In Canada we now have this option, electric vehicle management system :

https://www.ebmag.com/code-file/electric-vehicle-energy-management-systems-20149

I am sure there is an equivalent in the NEC, but sometimes it's more beneficial/economical just to upgrade the electrical service.

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That looks like a reasonable approach by your Codes in Canada. Unfortunately, the NEC seems to keep adding restrictions to EVSE's with each update instead of making things easier. I think there is little chance of the NEC allowing reduced demand calculations with EVSE load management systems.

Oilpan4 said:

If you have a 24 amp evse just tell them you want a clothes dryer receptacle installed.

Sounds like you have a 60 amp service going into a 100 amp main. With residential wiring I see all kinds of messed up completely illogical stuff like that all the time.
My now rental house had something like that when we got it, had 4 gauge wire on a 70 amp breaker going into a two small 100 amp each panels.
An electrician would have charged at least $5000 to bring my place up to code.

You could ask the electrician to install the biggest 240v circuit he thinks it can handle and buy your evse based on that.
You may end up having to run a 240v, 12 or 16 amp evse. But that still beats the heck out of 120v charging.

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Hi Everyone!

Fantastic feedback, as usual. Thank you!

Okay, now I have two electricians telling me it's impossible.

I have 60a coming from outside box to 100a panel box in lower bathroom. Although I am happy to upgrade the panel, I'm still only getting 60a from the outside box that feeds the townhomes. Is this my real limit? I will mention peak load vs. continual load.

Also, I like the idea of just asking for the highest amp NEMA outlet that my panel can handle, and I'll get an EVSE to suit. Although, I'm getting pushback with two electricians as I mentioned saying my panel is full.

I have a gas dryer, so that's an update that helps, hopefully.

Would it make any sense to upgrade my panel box if I'm only getting 60a? Would a sub-panel in the garage help at only 60a from the outside box?

I'll check out the other items linked here too. I don't want to give up hope yet, but I really want an L2 charger (anything over 120v would be better). I just returned the Chargepoint EVSE today.

Do you have a gas range, or electric?