Dryer outlet and 240 charger

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bas207

New member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
1
Hi,

I bought a 2015 Leaf in January and have been using the 110 charger that came with the car. My garage has a 240 dryer outlet, however, and I'd like to have the option of using it when I need to charge a bit more quickly.

I have two questions:

1) Do I need to have an electrician make any modifications to the outlet, or will a 240 charging station work directly with the existing outlet? (An image of the outlet is found at https://imgur.com/a/By0OxLv.)

2) Can anyone recommend an affordable charger that's appropriate for my vehicle? I don't need a top-of-the-line, super-fast charger--just a bit faster than overnight charging.

I really appreciate any advice!

-bas207
 
If the dryer circuit is in good shape it will work fine. I suggest the Clipper Creek HCS 30 charging station. It is rated for a 30 amp circuit and you can request it with a dryer plug installed.
 
That's not a dryer outlet. It's a NEMA 6-50, a 240v 50a outlet often used for welders. You need to check the breaker attached to see if it's actually a 50a circuit or a 40. I've even heard of them being on a 30a breaker. You can certainly use it whatever size the circuit actually is... You just need to get an EVSE that matches the circuit.
 
Fortunately, NEMA 6-50 is very common on EVSEs.

Unfortunately, that's the oldest 6-50 I've ever seen. It... doesn't look quite right...
 
http://www.zencar.net/product/32a-evse-portable-adjustable-sae-j1772/

$300, delivery right to your door. I've had zero issues with mine.
 
Not only is it important to check the breaker size, it is perhaps even more important to check the wiring to make sure that it "matches" the breaker (preferably 50a because of the 50a receptacle). and that the insulation is still in good shape. If you are doubtful about the condition of any component (esp. breaker, wiring, or receptacle) -- replace it. I say this partly because I have never yet moved into a house and not found the wiring screwed up in some way -- and the older the house, the more likely that it matters.

BTW Nissan appears to be wary of the age aspect because in their "2018 Leaf Owner's Manual" they warn: "Do not use the EVSE in structures more than 40 years old.". I take this to mean to be on the side of safety, don't use any circuit component more than 40 years old.
 
smkettner said:
alozzy said:
http://www.zencar.net/product/32a-evse-portable-adjustable-sae-j1772/

$300, delivery right to your door. I've had zero issues with mine.
Although NEMA 6-50 is not listed.
Need to swap plugs.
I believe they will put on any plug you want, at least that was the way when I ordered mine.
I ended up with a L6-30 plug to match my garage outlet and use outlet adapters I've made to go to other outlet types.
Note because mine came with a L6-30 plug they restricted my top charging current to 30a(although my Leaf tops out at 27.5a) if you ordered it with say a 14-50 plug they would give you a 32a option which is the max for the supplied metric J1772 cable.
IMO a big advantage to something like the Zen charger is its adjustable and also works on 120v with outlet adapters, Clipper Creek while a very good EVSE is only L2 and non user adjustable(of course it dials down if the car requests it).
 
smkettner said:
jjeff said:
Note because mine came with a L6-30 plug they restricted my top charging current to 30a
With a 30 amp circuit the EVSE should be limited to 80% or 24 amps.
True but with an outlet adapter to say a 14-50 outlet I'm just fine up to 30a or the rated capacity for the plug and wiring :)
It's the breaker itself that needs to be derated to 80% for continuous use, wiring and plug are fine at 100% capacity continuous. Note in Europe apparently they don't monkey around with the 80% thing, if their breaker is 16a it's 16a continuous but note they do have odd values, where we generally go in increments of 5 or 10a.
 
jjeff: It is my understanding (anyone please correct me if I'm mistaken) that EVSE's are designed such that the load carrying (stranded) copper wires in its charging cord are as thin as allowed (to improve its safety as thinner copper wires tolerate frequent flexing better, to reduce cost, reduce weight, etc) but as a result must use high temperature tolerant insulation (typically 105 C?). This means that at maximum rated load the EVSE cord runs hot (close to the insulation rating) and so the circuit wires connected to it must function not only as the current conductor but also as a "heat sink", i.e. they must be of thick enough gauge so that their (equilibrium?) running temperature does not exceed the rating of their insulation AND this temperature does not exceed the rating of the breaker that they are connected to (typically 75 C). Hence the special 80% rule for EVSE circuits.

Does this understanding help clarify things?
 
Check the breaker and wire size carefully. NEMA 6-50 receptacles are often used for welders that are intermittent loads so the wire may not be sized for a continuous 40-ampere load (80 percent of 50 amperes). Have a qualified person check the entire circuit to verify that everything is in good condition and that the breaker matches the wire rating. If the circuit is suitable for 30 amperes, the LCS-30P Clipper Creek would be an excellent choice. If the circuit is suitable for 40 amperes, the HCS-40P would be appropriate. The HCS-50P is suitable for a 50-ampere circuit and will deliver 40 amperes if a car can accept that much. You need to specify the 6-50 plug option when you order any of the Clipper Creek models noted. Clipper Creek model numbers correspond to the circuit breaker size so the maximum output is 80 percent of the model number in amperes (24, 32, or 40 amperes for the models noted above). By UL Listing and NEC requirements, the supply cord is only 12 inches long (including the plug) so it may be difficult to mount the EVSE in a convenient location that is close enough to reach the receptacle. The supply cord on my HCS-50P (with NEMA 14-50 plug) is a high-quality, heavy-gauge cord that is rather stiff. The branch or feeder circuit derating to 80 percent is a National Electrical Code (NEC) requirement for all continuous loads, but your local codes could be more stringent.
 
MikeD said:
jjeff: It is my understanding (anyone please correct me if I'm mistaken) that EVSE's are designed such that the load carrying (stranded) copper wires in its charging cord are as thin as allowed (to improve its safety as thinner copper wires tolerate frequent flexing better, to reduce cost, reduce weight, etc) but as a result must use high temperature tolerant insulation (typically 105 C?). This means that at maximum rated load the EVSE cord runs hot (close to the insulation rating) and so the circuit wires connected to it must function not only as the current conductor but also as a "heat sink", i.e. they must be of thick enough gauge so that their (equilibrium?) running temperature does not exceed the rating of their insulation AND this temperature does not exceed the rating of the breaker that they are connected to (typically 75 C). Hence the special 80% rule for EVSE circuits.

Does this understanding help clarify things?
I looked at a couple of my EVSEs. My OEM '12 has 105c wiring on both input and output, 12 gauge capable of 20a continuous(mine was upgraded by EVSEupgrade.com).
My '13, also upgraded by EVSEupgrade.com has 90C wiring on both input and output, 12 gauge and again capable of 20a continuous.
My 30a(continuous) GE EVSE has 10g 80c output wiring and a 60c 8g input pigtail 14-50 I installed.
I'm not really sure why the differences in C but AFAIK all 10g wiring should be able to handle 30a continuous. Of course stranded wire does vary in the diameter of the individual wires that make up the bundle, the finer the wire the more flexible it would be and the more amperage it should be able to carry for a given diameter of the bundle, the C rating is the rating of the jacket around the wire.
 
jjeff: Portable EVSEs have to be designed very conservatively because the user may at times be forced to charge at an outlet whose circuit is unknown and has minimal or no utility as a heat sink, among other issues.

Your GE EVSE example is right on the borderline, it seems to me. 10 AWG wire will heat up to approximately 60C with a 30a current assuming ambient 30C (86F) according to NEC table 310.15, so there is no margin for higher ambient temperatures, which rules out using 60C 10 AWG circuit wire even without resorting to the 80% rule. This ultimately reasonably leads to requiring using 8 AWG like you appear to have done, applying the 80% rule.
 
MikeD said:
10 AWG wire will heat up to approximately 60C with a 30a current assuming ambient 30C (86F) according to NEC table 310.15
That's not what Table 310.15 means. The allowable ampacity has to be a safe figure in the worst case installation scenario. So the 30C rise you mention (from 30C to 60C) would be more than the worst case expected, e.g. 3 such conductors embedded in heavy thermal insulation. The typical case would be a much lower temperature rise.

As for the 125% rule for continuous loads, it is all about the limitations of standard circuit breakers, nothing else.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
As for the 125% rule for continuous loads, it is all about the limitations of standard circuit breakers, nothing else.

Cheers, Wayne
Yes and the wire still needs to be rated for breaker ampacity yea? Might be for the one but they really go together.
 
wwhitney: Thanks for your input! I'm just trying to make some rational sense of all this (but realizing that for the most part these tables are probably backed by complex mathematical formulas involving multiple variables -- and perhaps experience data as well). Do you have a good available source (or two) that you would recommend that attempts to provide rational explanations, such as some NEC handbook?

When I took an NEC class 8 years ago, I believe I then wrote the following note to myself above the NEC 2008 310.15 table:
"Note: It is useful to understand that these tables tell you what temperature a wire will reach (60C,75C,or 90C) under continuous operation with the given maximum current (90C for AWG 10 at 40 amps, for example).".

Is your last comment fundamentally disagreeing with the use of this table in this way? Understand that I'm not trying to be too precise, but just seeking a working understanding for the NEC rules -- in hopes that I will be less likely to make avoidable gross errors.

And, are you saying the concept of wiring also serving as a heat sink for a hotter component in the circuit is wrong?

Perhaps it would be better to just address my previous post to jjeff that ends with "Does this understanding help clarify things?".

Thanks, again.
 
MikeD said:
When I took an NEC class 8 years ago, I believe I then wrote the following note to myself above the NEC 2008 310.15 table:
"Note: It is useful to understand that these tables tell you what temperature a wire will reach (60C,75C,or 90C) under continuous operation with the given maximum current (90C for AWG 10 at 40 amps, for example).".
I'm just taking exception to your use of the word "will" above. The actual conductor temperature under operating conditions will depend on a number of other installation parameters that will affect the rate of heat loss from the conductor. So I would expect that the allowable ampacity would be a current that will keep the conductor under the associated maximum temperature for (almost?) all possible installation scenarios (for the given ambient temperature and number of current carrying conductors in close proximity).
 
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