BMW, Volkswagen and ChargePoint complete EV express charging corridors on the East and West Coasts

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GRA

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Via GCC: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/09/20160913-evexpress.html

Electric vehicle (EV) drivers can now travel the most heavily-trafficked corridors on the East and West Coasts of the United States with the installation of 95 new DC Fast charging stations as part of the Express Charging Corridors Initiative—a collaboration of BMW of North America, Volkswagen of America, Inc. and ChargePoint, the world’s largest EV charging network.

Each charging location along the Express Charging Corridors offers either 50 kW or 24 kW DC Fast charging with the SAE Combo connectors used in the BMW i3 and Volkswagen e-Golf electric vehicles (and in many other EVs with DC Fast charging capability). Many locations also offer CHAdeMO connectors, for vehicles equipped with these ports. All stations are publicly available and can be easily accessed with the ChargePoint mobile app or a ChargePoint card, or for BMW drivers, a ChargeNow card. . . .

Drivers can access the DC Fast chargers along the most heavily populated and highly-trafficked regions primarily along Interstate 95 on the East Coast, enabling EV travel from Boston, through the New York City and Philadelphia areas to Washington, D.C., and along Interstate 5 and Highway 101 on the West Coast, connecting metropolitan areas from Portland, Ore., through the San Francisco Bay Area and Los Angeles to San Diego.

Branches from the main corridors extend to popular destinations such as Cape Cod, the Hamptons, the Jersey Shore, Lake Tahoe, Napa, and Sonoma. The chargers are strategically positioned both within and between relevant metropolitan areas, spaced approximately 50 miles (80 km) apart, in convenient locations with access to restaurants, shopping centers, rest stops, and more. . . .
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Great to hear!!! Thanks for posting.

I will have to look into doing an outing to enjoy this new EV freedom up the coast.
 
My read on it is that since BMW and VW were funding the program, most of the stations are SAE CCS DC Fast chargers. I've previously seen a ChargePoint 24 kW version of a SAE CCS charging station, so I would assume that is what they installed at the locations. That also helps them mitigate demand charges at the expense of slower charging times.

The press release also says there are some 50 kW Chademo stations installed, but I wouldn't expect too many of those given who the funding sources were for the project...
 
Randy said:
...The press release also says there are some 50 kW Chademo stations installed, but I wouldn't expect too many of those given who the funding sources were for the project...
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Were there any ~50 kW or CHAdeMO chargers installed?

All of them in North California are SAE only single chargers, without even any L2s nearby for backup.

Imagine you arrive at one of these, right after a Bolt has just plugged in, and started its ~3 hour recharge session...
 
edatoakrun said:
Randy said:
...The press release also says there are some 50 kW Chademo stations installed, but I wouldn't expect too many of those given who the funding sources were for the project...
Click to expand...
Were there any ~50 kW or CHAdeMO chargers installed?

All of them in North California are SAE only single chargers, without even any L2s nearby for backup.

Imagine you arrive at one of these, right after a Bolt has just plugged in, and started its ~3 hour recharge session...
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I believe some on the east coast were dual-standard, but am not aware of any out here. Some of the CCS DCs in Oregon were put in at the same locations where there were existing Aerovironment CHAdeMOs. As you say, all the ones in California on I-5 north of Sacramento and south of San Jose on 101 are BMW 24kW units. At the moment, a Spark, e-Golf or i3 can get you to Oregon and maybe LA a lot faster than a LEAF can, not that any of those cars (other than an i3 REx) makes any sense for such trips. But a Bolt could at least fake it.
 
Looking at the stretch between Ashland in Southern Oregon and Sacramento in California, along I5, they did a good job filling the DC/CSS gap. However, from the original press release pre rollout, they had planned to put in dual CSS and CHAdeMO units if there were no CHAdeMO. They did not fulfill this promise, so it seems like they lied about their intent or backtracked in their original plan. There is still a CHAdeMO dead zone on I5. Rats.
 
GRA said:
... spaced approximately 50 miles (80 km) apart . . .
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That is way too far apart for EVs with 24 kWh and battery degradation in winter.

Didn't they learn anything from the EVProject and Blink mistakes five years ago :?:

Or bother to read the carefully thought out guidelines and recommendations that TonyWilliams posted a copy of :?:

EV implementation needs to have been a lot smarter than this five years down the road :!: :shock: :(
 
Looks like they ignored ChaDeMo on the 101 heading north from LA. Their map for the 209 miles from Solvang to Monterey shows only 2 ChaDeMo in San Luis Obispo - both are EVGO stations, not ChargePoint. Now if you include CCS, then yes, ChargePoint has three locations on that route which makes it viable for a CCS equipped car. However, it is risky for even a CCS car as all 3 locations only have one CCS charger. So if there is any lack of proper maintenance, someone can easily find themselves out of luck.

Seems to me this omission was done intentionally by BMW and VW to attack the Leaf. Shame in their news story they claimed that many have both when their intention appears to be to kill ChaDeMo. And also shame that they only put one charger at each point in the route, thereby making it too risky to attempt unless one is willing to spend the extra time at L2s when the only ChargePoint station is out of commission.

So, what is ChargePoint's track record on keeping CCS stations up and available? Unless it is stellar, they really are trumpeting a failure for which I'm sure BMW and VW paid a lot of money for and hoping these investors don't realize they got hoodwinked.
 
DarthPuppy said:
So, what is ChargePoint's track record on keeping CCS stations up and available? Unless it is stellar, they really are trumpeting a failure for which I'm sure BMW and VW paid a lot of money for and hoping these investors don't realize they got hoodwinked.
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Normally, w/Chargepoint, regardless of station type, the OWNER is responsible for getting repairs done. Chargepoint themselves won't cover it. I'm pretty sure the owner has to call for Chargepoint or one of their reps/contractors to fix it.

I can't speak for DC FCs, probably 99+% of Chargepoint stations aren't owned by Chargepoint. I can't speak to these as I haven't read the deal. I'd guess Chargepoint owns the L2 EVSEs at their HQ but not much beyond that.
 
Despite my misgivings noted above, I'm still glad to see at least some progress in terms of creating a charging corridor. I'm just disappointed they are declaring the project complete when it is well short of actually creating a viable corridor. Perhaps if Nissan will sponsor a similar program through EVGO or Blink then between the different networks the corridors will finally be in place. I'm worried though that ChargePoint's claiming that the corridors are complete and in place will dissuade others from fixing their gaps. And given how long Nissan has been in the market and not seen fit to sponsor this, I'm doubtful they will, especially if they have a longer range BEV in the works.

It also reeks of a marketing gimmick to help sell BMWs and VWs when there really isn't substance there. After the VW emissions scandal, I shouldn't be surprised about that. But I'm surprised BMW is also behind this type of tactic. If they want to be taken seriously, they need to put in a real corridor. The press release should state that the initial phase is complete, but they have many more funded and in progress.
 
cwerdna said:
Chargepoint themselves won't cover it. I'm pretty sure the owner has to call for Chargepoint or one of their reps/contractors to fix it.

I can't speak for DC FCs, probably 99+% of Chargepoint stations aren't owned by Chargepoint.
Click to expand...

Hmmm.... That does not bode well for the stations remaining functional with significant reliability.
 
DarthPuppy said:
... Hmmm.... That does not bode well for the stations remaining functional with significant reliability.
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No it doesn't.
Just look at the Blink DCQC units at Cracker Barrels in TN.
Many are broken.
There is no EV highway that can be counted on.

Reliability will only happen if some of the $ being collected from users is alloted for maintenance.
 
DarthPuppy said:
cwerdna said:
Chargepoint themselves won't cover it. I'm pretty sure the owner has to call for Chargepoint or one of their reps/contractors to fix it.

I can't speak for DC FCs, probably 99+% of Chargepoint stations aren't owned by Chargepoint.
Click to expand...

Hmmm.... That does not bode well for the stations remaining functional with significant reliability.
Click to expand...
Again, I can't speak to who owns these. If the owner cares, then they'll probably be fixed. It might be BMW, VW, Chargepoint or someone else. I have no idea.

I'm just saying for the general case of any Chargepoint-branded station, it's up to the owner. We have several dozen Chargepoint stations at my work (their HQ isn't far from my work either). I've called in problem reports to Chargepoint several times for http://www.plugshare.com/?location=7563 (e.g. holster mechanism broken or low voltage warning message). Either Target or the property owner there owns those stations.

When our stations at work have a problem (pretty rare), our facilities people contacts Chargepoint to come out. I don't personally know what my work's arrangement is with them in terms of warranty, service contract, how much paid per service call and for what reason, etc. Our stuff at work gets fixed pretty promptly. It kinda helps that Chargepoint HQ is within walking distance and if they stayed broken for too long due to our facilities people dropping the ball, it'd get enough attention that they'd can that person.
 
TimLee said:
GRA said:
... spaced approximately 50 miles (80 km) apart . . .
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
That is way too far apart for EVs with 24 kWh and battery degradation in winter.

Didn't they learn anything from the EVProject and Blink mistakes five years ago :?:

Or bother to read the carefully thought out guidelines and recommendations that TonyWilliams posted a copy of :?:

EV implementation needs to have been a lot smarter than this five years down the road :!: :shock: :(
Click to expand...
I suspect they're looking forward and not backwards. The number of people willing/trying to use sub-100 mile BEVs for road trips is a fast diminishing quantity, and providing sufficient density to maximize flexibility/convenience is more important. The number of such sub-100 mile cars is far smaller than the future sales of longer-range cars that they're anticipating. 50 miles is no problem for 30 kWh+ cars. As it is, the Bolt will easily be able to make the 131 mile run on 101 from the 50kW eVgo CCS/CHAdeMO in Salinas to the one in San Luis Obispo, and from there can easily reach the eVgos in Santa Barbara, Ventura or Camarillo. The over-100 mile e-Golf and i3 will need to hit more of the 24kW chargers.

That being said, I do wish they'd have put at least two separate (preferably dual-standard) chargers in each location, even if that meant they had to be spaced twice as far apart for now. OTOH, keeping the rate down to 24kW has allowed pricing to be lower (presumably due to lower demand charges), and also allows installation at more locations than could handle the demand of more/more powerful chargers.
 
GRA said:
... 50 miles is no problem for 30 kWh+ cars. ...
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Not when they are new.
But after one or two years of capacity degradation and at typical Interstate speeds and in cold weather if you like a warm cabin, 50 miles will be too far apart.

You have to remember that DCQC is only fairly quick up to 60% to 70%.
50 miles may be tolerable for a while.
But a really poor choice long term.

Real reliabilty needs not only multiple DCQC, but something like 25 mile spacing.
 
TimLee said:
GRA said:
... spaced approximately 50 miles (80 km) apart . . .
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
That is way too far apart for EVs with 24 kWh and battery degradation in winter. :(
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Agreed! I've given up on road trips with my 75% 2011 battery (even if there were any DCQCs within 50 mi). I think our sub-24 kWh batteries will remain city cars, and these corridor 25-50 KW DCQC's will only be used by the next crop of "200 mi" EVs. Even so, I think that "real" long-range BEV travel will require faster chargers (>100 KW) and a minimum 60 kWh battery. For regional travel (200-400 mi), I can easily see John & Jane Doe traveling to G&G's for Thanksgiving, stopping once for an hour pit stop (coffee/BF/lunch), picking up another 100-200 mi, and then continuing on. It would be an easy day trip, very little thought required (as long as the DCQC's are properly located). However, for >400 mi trips, bigger batteries (Tesla big, 75-100 kWh) and >100 KW DCQCs (again, properly located like Tesla) are required.
 
TimLee said:
GRA said:
... 50 miles is no problem for 30 kWh+ cars. ...
Click to expand...
Not when they are new.
But after one or two years of capacity degradation and at typical Interstate speeds and in cold weather if you like a warm cabin, 50 miles will be too far apart.

You have to remember that DCQC is only fairly quick up to 60% to 70%.
50 miles may be tolerable for a while.
But a really poor choice long term.

Real reliabilty needs not only multiple DCQC, but something like 25 mile spacing.
Click to expand...
I'm assuming that 30kWh will be enough, including degradation, if you also heat the car at each QC. 107 miles x .7 (EoL degradation) x .7 (freeway speed, reserve, heat etc.) is 52.4 miles. Not ideal, but enough (although a car like the LEAF without a TMS that heats the battery, except to keep it from freezing, is going to be more problematic).

I agree that QCs spaced no more than every 25-35 miles is what's ultimately needed, but only to come close to replicating the convenience and flexibility of gas stations, which are typically no more than 1/2 hour apart on even rural freeways. However, as Reddy avers, I believe 200+ mile BEVs will soon be the norm and will be used for longer trips like this. It's the Sub-100 mile BEVs that will be the "really poor choice long term," as their numbers will quickly fade away into insignificance, and the remaining ones will be used for what they were always intended to be used for, local commuting and errands. That will penalize some early adopters who want to use their original cars for more, but that's the price they pay.
 
DarthPuppy said:
So, what is ChargePoint's track record on keeping CCS stations up and available?
Click to expand...

They have 2 CHAdeMO near me, one has been broken for over a year. The site owner claims they've been trying forever to get it fixed, but the contractor ChargePoint uses only swings by once a month or so and always seems to forget to bring the right part or does bring the part, but it is defective.
 
OK, let's get practical here.
I live in Seattle, and frequently travel to San Francisco. Usually, I go in my machina obsoleta (a VW "cheater" TDI Touareg, please please please CARB make them buy it back, and pay me extra, and hell yes I will be joining that class action lawsuit, since you sold me an illegal car).
I would love to be able to get there in my 30KW Leaf.
I can get to southern Oregon with fast chargers stopping every hundred miles or so, than I can charge ChaDeMo in Ashland, and then I can probably get to Mt. Shasta (73 miles, but over mountains), where I can charge at level 2, which means 4-5 hours(?) After that, I can't quite get to the ChaDeMo at the Nissan dealer in Chico (130 miles), which means stopping for a couple of hours somewhere near the lovely town of Red Bluff. Once I get to Chico, I'm all set, since from there to SF there are plenty of fast chargers.
So, what's the group consensus? Am I inevitably going to be calling for Nissan roadside assistance? Or am I going to be bored, but get where I want to go?
 

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