Siemens Versicharge EVSE - question

I'm trying to understand how EVSE's work, are installed, etc...

I have a question. I'm looking at the Siemens VC30GRYU Versicharge EVSE.

With something like this, I am comfortable doing the install, but not the electricals part. I will have to look but I don't believe my home has an extra 6-50 receptacle in the garage. Nor does it have an extra 40 amp breaker - it might though.

When I call an electrician to install the 6-50 receptacle, and 40 amp breaker - if needed - that's all I need to request, correct? Do I even need to mention it will be for an EVSE?

kevmk81 said:

When I call an electrician to install the 6-50 receptacle, and 40 amp breaker - if needed - that's all I need to request, correct? Do I even need to mention it will be for an EVSE?

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Yes to your first question not really to your third.
Note the 6-50R does have a neutral connection but for EV use you don't really need it. You could save a little bit of money by using 8-2 w/ground wire(like I did) but I might suggest paying the little extra(I doubt the difference would be $10 for a normal run) to run 8-3 w/ground. The problem is if you ever want to re purpose the outlet for something like a range, it would probably need the neutral. In my case I was thinking of using my 6-50 outlet to backfeed power from a generator in case of a power outage but without the neutral it wouldn't work

I think a 50A receptacle should be backed by a 50A breaker, in case someone someday decides to plug something other than that EVSE into it, and goes by the receptacle instead of looking in the breaker box.

wmcbrine said:

I think a 50A receptacle should be backed by a 50A breaker, in case someone someday decides to plug something other than that EVSE into it, and goes by the receptacle instead of looking in the breaker box.

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I understand your reasoning but when you plug a 30a EVSE into it, a 50a breaker isn't really going to protect it in case of failure, a 50a breaker would also require 6 gauge wire. In my case I actually used 6-2 w/ground and a 40a breaker. I figured the breaker would be easy to replace if I ever needed the 50a but not so easy for the wire, unfortunately I saved a few bucks by going with 6-2 thinking I didn't need the neutral for a EVSE only to later wish I had it for my generator use
It's possible the OPs electrician may refuse to run anything other than 6-3 w/ground to a 50a outlet and may also insist on a 50a breaker but personally to somewhat protect the EVSE I'd rather go with a 40a breaker

Even though the EVSE does not use the neutral the cost is minimal to make the connector complete compared with the labor cost. My 50A 14-50 has #6 lines and #8 wires for the ground and neutral. I may never use it but it is there. The 14-50 is defined to have a neutral so if it is not present the receptacle needs to be labeled EVSE only.

In my case the total wire length was around 6 feet so the wire was cheap.

jjeff said:

kevmk81 said:

When I call an electrician to install the 6-50 receptacle, and 40 amp breaker - if needed - that's all I need to request, correct? Do I even need to mention it will be for an EVSE?

Click to expand...

Yes to your first question not really to your third.
Note the 6-50R does have a neutral connection but for EV use you don't really need it. You could save a little bit of money by using 8-2 w/ground wire(like I did) but I might suggest paying the little extra(I doubt the difference would be $10 for a normal run) to run 8-3 w/ground. The problem is if you ever want to re purpose the outlet for something like a range, it would probably need the neutral. In my case I was thinking of using my 6-50 outlet to backfeed power from a generator in case of a power outage but without the neutral it wouldn't work

Click to expand...

A 6-50 doesn't have a neutral connection - you're thinking of the more ubiquitous 14-50. It probably makes sense to include the extra wire anyway, though, in case you ever want to change out the outlet. And as others said you should run #6 wire.

fooljoe said:

jjeff said:

kevmk81 said:

When I call an electrician to install the 6-50 receptacle, and 40 amp breaker - if needed - that's all I need to request, correct? Do I even need to mention it will be for an EVSE?

Click to expand...

Yes to your first question not really to your third.
Note the 6-50R does have a neutral connection but for EV use you don't really need it. You could save a little bit of money by using 8-2 w/ground wire(like I did) but I might suggest paying the little extra(I doubt the difference would be $10 for a normal run) to run 8-3 w/ground. The problem is if you ever want to re purpose the outlet for something like a range, it would probably need the neutral. In my case I was thinking of using my 6-50 outlet to backfeed power from a generator in case of a power outage but without the neutral it wouldn't work

Click to expand...

A 6-50 doesn't have a neutral connection - you're thinking of the more ubiquitous 14-50. It probably makes sense to include the extra wire anyway, though, in case you ever want to change out the outlet. And as others said you should run #6 wire.

Click to expand...

Yes your correct, I have the 14-50, didn't catch the OP was talking about the less common 6-50, my apologizes. Not really sure why the OP would want to use a 6-50 outlet but technically it would match EV use better as EVs don't use a neutral. I chose the 14-50 because it's the more modern high power outlet and also it's what Tesla has standardized on.

I guess I could do a 14-50 outlet. I don't know much about outlets & breakers & the required wiring (which is why I'm wanting an electrician to do it). I'm only saying 6-50 because of the 'instructions' I found for the Siemens.

Would it be that much more for a 14-50 outlet? The location of the EVSE will be approximately 10 ft away from the breaker box. Same side of wall - different room. Breaker box is in a mud room, EVSE will be in garage.

Just trying to determine my options. Like I've said, I don't know much about 14-50 vs 6-50, the gauge of wire, which breakers I would need, etc...

kevmk81 said:

I guess I could do a 14-50 outlet. I don't know much about outlets & breakers & the required wiring (which is why I'm wanting an electrician to do it). I'm only saying 6-50 because of the 'instructions' I found for the Siemens.

Would it be that much more for a 14-50 outlet? The location of the EVSE will be approximately 10 ft away from the breaker box. Same side of wall - different room. Breaker box is in a mud room, EVSE will be in garage.

Just trying to determine my options. Like I've said, I don't know much about 14-50 vs 6-50, the gauge of wire, which breakers I would need, etc...

Click to expand...

I just had an electrician put in a 14-50 outlet on a dedicated 50A circuit for my Juicebox Pro 40, which has a 14-50 plug on it. I thought about doing just a 30A EVSE since the Leaf maxes out just below that, but I wanted to future-proof my installation/EVSE for when I upgrade to a Tesla or something else. It's not much more to get a 40A EVSE, and then you can take advantage of that extra current down the road, or if a friend needs to charge, etc. I didn't want to spend $400-500 now and then spend another $600 in a few years when I need more current.

If the EVSE you buy has a 6-50 plug, you can buy an adapter to go from 6-50 to 14-50.

jjeff said:

Not really sure why the OP would want to use a 6-50 outlet

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Because the Versicharge (and many other commercial EVSEs) come with a 6-50 plug.

kevmk81 said:

Would it be that much more for a 14-50 outlet? The location of the EVSE will be approximately 10 ft away from the breaker box.

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No, with that short of a run the cost of the 10' of extra wire will be negligible, and if anything the receptacle itself will be cheaper, as 14-50s are much more common.

jonnyg said:

From what I have read, 6-50 is also no longer allowed to be used for new installations, only to replace an existing 6-50. So I'm not sure if an electrician would even put one in for you.

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This is wrong - are you thinking of a 10-50 (aka "old-style" range outlet)? The 6-50 is a modern receptacle which is likely seeing a huge rise in popularity chiefly because of EVSEs.

jonnyg said:

If the EVSE you buy has a 6-50 plug, you can buy an adapter to go from 6-50 to 14-50.

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Yes, or you can always just put the wiring in place for a 14-50 and simply swap out the $10 receptacle to match your EVSE plug. That adapter would be nice to have anyway though in case you ever want to take your EVSE on the road with you and charge up from RV parks or hotels that have 14-50s.

fooljoe said:

jonnyg said:

From what I have read, 6-50 is also no longer allowed to be used for new installations, only to replace an existing 6-50. So I'm not sure if an electrician would even put one in for you.

Click to expand...

This is wrong - are you thinking of a 10-50 (aka "old-style" range outlet)? The 6-50 is a modern receptacle which is likely seeing a huge rise in popularity chiefly because of EVSEs.

Click to expand...

Oops, yes, my mistake. I'll edit my post to not cause confusion.

It's totally up to the OP as it sounds like both the 6-50 and 14-50 are current outlets. In a way the 6-50 makes more sense for EV use as it doesn't have a neutral and EVs don't use a neutral but the main reason to go with the 14-50 that does have a neutral would be as someone else said, RV parks tend to have 14-50s(I doubt they'd ever have a 6-50), modern ranges could use the 14-50 but probably never a 6-50 and again Tesla has standardized on the 14-50, so converter plugs are readily available(albeit on the expensive side vs making one yourself).