Inductive charging (plugless connection)

I was looking at the inductive charging outfit from http://www.pluglesspower.com. Although it looks neat, it's limited to 3.3 Kw. From a practical standpoint, it would probably work fine for me, as it would always top off the charge, every time I pull into the garage. Of course, that's also a downside, as I may return from a short jaunt with 85% SOC, and I don't usually charge at that condition.

The thing sells for $1540.00, with free installation on/in your car; they claim 'no effect on your lease'. They don't mention the effect on charging efficiency; I'd think it would hurt that to some extent.

Anyone have experience wit this? Any other comments?

Disclaimer: I have NO connection with this company, I was drawn to their web page through one of those sidebar ads.

Yes there is a significant loss of efficiency. My guess is the are not going to disclose this and if asked they will likely give you the most optimistic not worst case figure. I would email them for the numbers. There must be a variable based on distance, personally I think this is an expensive option that only wastes power and another factor to add to the charging losses. My guess is 10% or more.

EVD,
I emailed them, asking about efficiency loss. Also, who do they have do the 'on car' part of the installation. Will update this post when I hear back.

<<Jim>>

Many of the inductive EVSEs are claiming 90+% efficiency now - highest I recall seeing was 96%. How you weight convenience versus efficiency will determine whether or not you consider it worth worrying about - the extra cost of electricity is minimal (and a lot less than the cost of the unit itself).

For me the loss of efficiency would not be a deciding factor, as I am only paying about $35/mo in EV electricity, even a 50% inefficiency would not be a big deal compared to my ICE fuel costs. I still trickle charge at home, so 3.3kw would be sufficient for our use. The cost of the charger/install and the dedicated parking spot it would require, will keep me away for a while. But if I bought a brand new Leaf, I could see myself maybe springing for the convenience of a plugless system. $1500 is not too bad compared to what some people pay for a L2 charger and professional installation. Hmmm... I'm starting to talk myself into it!

They claim less than 10% efficiency loss. Haven't heard back as to exactly who installs these things on/in your car, I assume that it's NOT the Nissan dealer.

FT: that $1500.00 is balanced against the $500.00 or so for a regular L2 EVSE, the installation will be about the same. Well, maybe a little bit less, as the plugless is only good for 3.3 Kw, so wouldn't require the 40 amp breaker and wiring that most folks would otherwise install.

It would be neat and elegant to not have to plug a cord in, but dunno if it's worth it. A big problem for me is that I back into the garage, and observers would wonder where I learned to drive. I stop at the same place, as I have one of those "radar" thingys with lights, but the angle is all over the map. :roll:

jdunmyer said:

A big problem for me is that I back into the garage, and observers would wonder where I learned to drive. I stop at the same place, as I have one of those "radar" thingys with lights, but the angle is all over the map. :roll:

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I've got a solution since I back fire engines and ambulances in all the time... Paint a line on the floor, or use 2 inch vinyl tape where your driver's tires should be. When you back in, you can line up your tires or the body of the car as you are backing in. You might need to tilt the side mirror down to make it easier to see with the leaf mirror. Essentially it is like backing into a parking space with your driver side tires on the line

EVDRIVER said:

Yes there is a significant loss of efficiency. My guess is the are not going to disclose this and if asked they will likely give you the most optimistic not worst case figure. I would email them for the numbers. There must be a variable based on distance, personally I think this is an expensive option that only wastes power and another factor to add to the charging losses. My guess is 10% or more.

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They are very upfront about.

"Plugless is ~12% less efficient than corded L2 30amp 240V charging systems and ~7% less efficient than corded Level 1 charging systems."

Obviously that is a very general statement and will vary depending on which EV and which OBC you have. Can't find it quickly but there is a NREL like report on the efficiency which If I recall is where the 12% came from.

Heya jdunmyer and all,

First, disclosure - I work for Plugless. So running through your OP - first, for the days where you go out for a quick jaunt and you don't want to charge upon your return - just park out of alignment and Plugless won't charge.

A note on the free installation - it's free for you, we pay the trained technician - this can be, and typically is at your dealership or at trusted mechanic.

Warranty questions - Plugless is a fully reversible (we do not cut, drill or saw anything on the LEAF) it won't (and legally cannot) void any warranties or leases (per the Magnuson-Moss warranty act) - AND our 3-year warranty covers any costs (parts and labor) should our system damage your vehicle (it won't, but we want to cover your bases). That's on top of a 45-day any reason return policy (which covers shipping and deinstallation) - bottom line, we stand behind our product and work very hard to make sure you are happy.

Queenbee has it right - In our FAQ's (and all over the interwebs) we state that Plugless is about 12% less efficient than a corded level 2 chrger and about 7% less efficient than a level 1 corded chrger. This is in terms of wall-to-OBC or wall-to-battery. Transparency and 3rd-party data is important to us and so that claim is based on the more than 8,700 separate tests of Plugless conducted by the U.S. Department of Energy's, Idaho National Laboratory. Here is its published 3rd-party data (a requirement of their testing:http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/evse/PLUGLESSEvatranStandaloneTestResultsFactSheet.pdf
Note: there is a DC Fast chrger that INL tested in 2012 which had 88.7% total system efficiency which is about the same ballpark as Plugless. But the apples to apples comparison for most home or work installations (L1 or L2) above is what we typically compare to.

There are claims of 90% and 96% efficiency on other inductive systems - these are lab/bench stats, not production models - not to mention, efficiency as compared to what, across what gap - and what is the cost to the consumer to electrical upgrades, etc. etc.? This is why we VERY much look forward to competitors for true comparisons.

Also, FYI - in the latest budget bill, Congress appears to have reinstated the up to $1,000 tax credit for the cost of EVSE installation (read: 30% of costs of purchase and installation costs and it's a true credit, not a deductible - meaning it reduces your total tax liability). But, like things tax-related, this is not tax advice...and this early in the year, before the forms come out - best to check with a tax pro/attorney/accountant. Per Plug-in America: http://www.pluginamerica.org/drivers-seat/happy-ev-legislative-new-year

Charge Onward!

Hit me with questions.

Dear PlugslessSteve,

What is the weight of this unit?

Is it built in the USA (Michigan?)?

If it's merely powering the onboard charger, it should be quite easy to adapt to other EVs?

We may be interested in providing this to our customers for the following vehicles:

2012-2014 Toyota Rav4 EV
2008-2011 Tesla Roadster
2012- newer Ford Focus Electric
2014- newer Mercedes B-Class ED (B250e)

Thanks,

Tony Williams
R&D Manager
Quick Charge Power LLC
[email protected]
www.QuickChargePower.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EVPARTS
1-844-387-2787 ext 701

Heya Tony,

What is the weight of this unit?

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About 20 lbs (depending on the EV model - i.e. the ELR vehicle adapter is slightly heavier).

Is it built in the USA (Michigan?)?

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Yes (No, our manufacturing is here in Virginia - AND 100% of our parts are sourced from U.S. companies)

Yes our current Plugless chargers and the short-term product development pipeline are all J1772 chargers that power the OBC (I know Tesla is not j1772...but yes in their case also through the OBC). But "easy to adapt," not exactly. As an aftermarket part that does not alter the EV in anyway (no drilling, cutting or breaking the EV) and perfectly integrates with the vehicle electronics and is as efficient as possible...that's a per EV/model scenario that has some significant costs.

Our next models (in the coming months) will be for Tesla S and then the BMW i3 (both 6.6kW) - then other models after that (we'll announce later).

Thanks for your interest. And bravo on your work on the LEAF battery-pack kefuffle.

Steve

http://www.plugless.com

Plugless (Ashley) sent me a followup email, and I took the opportunity to ask about swapping the unit to another vehicle:

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Currently, the Plugless adapters are pretty EV specific to each particular EV model but we are planning to change this in the next year or so by creating a more universal adapter that can be transferable between EV models.

Until that is released, we are offering 1 FREE swap-out if you were to buy a different Plugless supported EV and needed a new vehicle adapter. The only thing you would have to pay for is the difference in price between the old vehicle adapter and your new one, if there is a difference. I say that because I believe our Tesla system is going to be a bit more expensive.

We’re getting ready to release the Plugless Tesla system and BMW i3 systems in the next few months. And there has been talk that we will definitely support the Bolt when it is released!
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I'm thinking that I'm going to pass on this gadget, as it seems like it will offer me very little; my Leaf is parked in a garage (no fighting the snow!) and I don't mind handing the cord and plug. Frankly, I don't think the price is too bad, and the representatives have been very responsive to my emails. If you must park outside or don't like handling a potentially dirty cord, you might think differently.

Given the stated 12% losses I wonder how all this power dissipates, it's almost 400W in the 3.3kW scenario and it can't be all lost to heat, which means most of it is lost to EMR, and that a lot of EMR to have in your garage even if it's low frequency. Am I missing something?

Yup, You are missing the tumors. :lol:

Evoforce said:

Yup, You are missing the tumors. :lol:

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Yeah, no kidding. My bedroom is directly above the garage, and who knows what can be the effects of long term exposure, I'm talking years here. I suspect it may be a non issue as the radiation power fades very quickly with distance, perhaps someone with knowledge on the subject can chime in.

How does the base get installed? It looks like the cement would have to be cut?

I honestly really like the idea of plugless and ALMOST got it. The one thing that held me back was it being only 3.3kw vs 6.6kw for a standard wall (went OpenEVSE). Yes I know probably 80-90% of my charging is overnight and I wouldn't notice the charging time difference, but occasionally it's really nice to be able to juice up a significant amount in 1 hour. If it were closer to the 6.6kw it would have been a no-brainer for me. Especially with the tax credit this year

Valdemar said:

Given the stated 12% losses I wonder how all this power dissipates, it's almost 400W in the 3.3kW scenario and it can't be all lost to heat, which means most of it is lost to EMR, and that a lot of EMR to have in your garage even if it's low frequency. Am I missing something?

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Again I am with the manufacturer - the vast, vast majority of the inefficiency is thermal (and very little of that is found in the parking pad or vehicle adapter under the car) - and remember it is over time. Walking around the back of the car while it was charging would be no different as fields you would encounter walking around a modern home.

Having written all of that, you should be skeptical of manufacturing claims. Happily, you can check out the 3rd-party published data of the U.S. Dept. of Energy's Idaho Nat'l Laboratories (we're proud to be the ONLY wireless EV charger with 3rd-part published data a requirement of INL's) - note INL conducted more than 8,700 separate tests on Plugless: http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/evse/PLUGLESSEvatranStandaloneTestResultsFactSheet.pdf

...and finally Plugless is FCC approved and has its ETL certification: http://www.intertek.com/news/2014/03-24-plugless-l2-first-wireless-etl-ev-charger/

mikesus said:

How does the base get installed? It looks like the cement would have to be cut?

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(Disclosure: I am with Plugless) - If you buy THEN build (or renovate) then sure you can bury the cables, but that is most certainly not required.

This will orient you: https://www.pluglesspower.com/pgls_community_post/plugless-at-a-glance/

Valdemar said:

Given the stated 12% losses I wonder how all this power dissipates, it's almost 400W in the 3.3kW scenario and it can't be all lost to heat, which means most of it is lost to EMR, and that a lot of EMR to have in your garage even if it's low frequency. Am I missing something?

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Not to mention, on a Tesla with an 85KWH pack at 12% loss that is an additional 10KWH of wasted electricity per cycle. That is about half a full LEAF pack wasted on a charge cycle. Great for the environment and electric bill over the course of a year. It's funny to see people put in LED bulbs and see all the savings wasted in one charge by being too lazy to plug in the car.