Using Tesla charging station with J1772 protocol

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sparkkard

New member
Joined
May 27, 2015
Messages
1
does any one know of the protocol for the tesla charging station, looking to make an adapter ..,, so i can use a tesla charging station to charge my j-1772 Ported car.. ,, i too i'l need a socket for tesla plug ? there are 10 tesla charging station in Petaluma, ca in one shopping center , next to the freeway.. Like to be able to use on of them ??
 
Are you suggesting making an adapter to be able to use a Supercharger station on your LEAF? That would be pretty awesome, but pretty sure you'd be shut down pretty quickly, too...
 
While such an adapter would be very nice of Tesla to release/support, I don't think they would be too keen on folks doing this on their own. Since you aren't charging a Tesla, you don't have permission to do it and any use would be theft.
 
Slow1 said:
While such an adapter would be very nice of Tesla to release/support, I don't think they would be too keen on folks doing this on their own. Since you aren't charging a Tesla, you don't have permission to do it and any use would be theft.

Do Tesla's charge for free ?? or is it pay as you go like the rest of us ?
 
sparkkard said:
... there are 10 tesla charging station in Petaluma, ca in one shopping center , next to the freeway...
Do they have cool rectangular arch shapes? Those are Superchargers. They are DC and not J1772 compatible. It would be possible to create an adapter for it to CHAdeMO, but you couldn't use it since the Superchargers authenticate the cars and you'd have to hack the authentication, which would be stealing.

It is fairly straightforward to build an adapter for a regular Tesla HPWC, it would just be a physical adapter, no smarts needed. Tony over at QuickChargePower.com is working on one and there's a thread on the subject. Won't be cheap, though. The Tesla inlet can't be bought, so you either have to find a junk one, or manufacture your own.
 
Sondy132001 said:
Slow1 said:
While such an adapter would be very nice of Tesla to release/support, I don't think they would be too keen on folks doing this on their own. Since you aren't charging a Tesla, you don't have permission to do it and any use would be theft.

Do Tesla's charge for free ?? or is it pay as you go like the rest of us ?

They are free for those who have purchased the Tesla with the SC option. Basically Tesla owners are pre-paying for lifetime charging at the stations.
 
It would be good if someone explained the Tesla access process. Is there a fob or card that comes with the car?. Or does the car have a coded chip in the vicinity of the charger port? I would not expect these extension cords on steroids are just sitting there for anyone to attach self made adapters.
 
They aren't free, you pre-pay $2K for the supercharge for life option.

The car is a giant computer with wheels. When you connect it queries the car to see what it is. A Leaf would not be able to respond to that query without "hacking". As to the authentication it is unknown if the car authenticates (i.e. the car knows it can supercharge) or if the supercharger authenticates (i.e. the car's info is passed to the supercharger who does a database lookup). Since all Tesla's are cell connected it wouldn't surprise me if the superchargers are too. Also wouldn't surprise me if it is a two stage authentication. The car says "yeah I can charge and here are my credentials" and the supercharger does the police officer thing and verifies what the car says to be true with Skynet er... Tesla HQ.
 
Our adaptor that will accept a Tesla HPWC / UMC plug and then plug into a J1772 inlet on virtually every car sold in North America will be $200-$300.

Available late 2015.
 
It sounds like something a Tesla owner would use to charge on public networks, authenticated with cards and fobs. I don't Blink et al care what car they pump the trons to as long as authenticated/billed.

No help for a Leaf owner.
 
TonyWilliams said:
Our adaptor that will accept a Tesla HPWC / UMC plug and then plug into a J1772 inlet on virtually every car sold in North America will be $200-$300.

Available late 2015.

and then the person wanting to use this has to pay Tesla $2000 per car on top of the adapter to enable the charging?

Are you really developing a solution to allow a random car to charge at a supercharger?
 
mjblazin said:
It sounds like something a Tesla owner would use to charge on public networks, authenticated with cards and fobs. I don't Blink et al care what car they pump the trons to as long as authenticated/billed.

No help for a Leaf owner.
Yes, it would help a LEAF owner. This is useless to a Tesla, the Teslas already come with the adapter to use J1772 EVSEs. This one would be used to charge a LEAF or other J1772 equipped car at businesses that have put in Tesla HPWCs or at a friend's house that has one. It would also be handy for a LEAF owner who was planning a Tesla car purchase and wanted to go ahead and get a HPWC or UMC now and be able to use it in the meantime.
 
dhanson865 said:
TonyWilliams said:
Our adaptor that will accept a Tesla HPWC / UMC plug and then plug into a J1772 inlet on virtually every car sold in North America will be $200-$300.

Available late 2015.

and then the person wanting to use this has to pay Tesla $2000 per car on top of the adapter to enable the charging?

Are you really developing a solution to allow a random car to charge at a supercharger?

That's not what Tony is doing. His adapter is for Tesla's AC charging stations, which are just 240v Level 2 stations that have Tesla connectors on them instead of J1772. Tesla has been installing these at hotels and restaurants, plus many have been installed by Tesla owners around the country. Tony's adapter would allow other EVs to use these Level 2 stations.

As others have said, creating an adapter for Tesla's DC charging stations (aka Superchargers) would be extremely difficult, as the communications between the car and Supercharger would need to be completely reverse engineered AND you'd have to find a way to trick the Supercharger into authenticating your vehicle (perhaps by passing it a valid Tesla VIN? Who knows). That would clearly be unethical and would constitute theft of electricity. Even if you were able to get around all these issues, the Supercharger adapter would need to plug into your Leaf's CHAdeMO port (DC) rather than your J1772 port (AC).
 
NYLEAF said:
dhanson865 said:
TonyWilliams said:
Our adaptor that will accept a Tesla HPWC / UMC plug and then plug into a J1772 inlet on virtually every car sold in North America will be $200-$300.

Available late 2015.

and then the person wanting to use this has to pay Tesla $2000 per car on top of the adapter to enable the charging?

Are you really developing a solution to allow a random car to charge at a supercharger?

That's not what Tony is doing. His adapter is for Tesla's AC charging stations, which are just 240v Level 2 stations that have Tesla connectors on them instead of J1772. Tesla has been installing these at hotels and restaurants, plus many have been installed by Tesla owners around the country. Tony's adapter would allow other EVs to use these Level 2 stations.

As others have said, creating an adapter for Tesla's DC charging stations (aka Superchargers) would be extremely difficult, as the communications between the car and Supercharger would need to be completely reverse engineered AND you'd have to find a way to trick the Supercharger into authenticating your vehicle (perhaps by passing it a valid Tesla VIN? Who knows). That would clearly be unethical and would constitute theft of electricity. Even if you were able to get around all these issues, the Supercharger adapter would need to plug into your Leaf's CHAdeMO port (DC) rather than your J1772 port (AC).

I don't buy into the theft of energy story line. Tesla will either be willing to add your car to the database of acceptable IDs for a nominal charge (several thousand dollars) or they will block you. Anyone doing this will contact Tesla or fail. That's the way I think of it.

@TonyWilliams, Sorry I didn't comprehend what I read the first time through. Makes sense to have an adapter to allow a HPWC / UMC to J1772. Slap me with a fish or something the next time you see me. :)
 
mjblazin said:
It sounds like something a Tesla owner would use to charge on public networks, authenticated with cards and fobs. I don't Blink et al care what car they pump the trons to as long as authenticated/billed.

No help for a Leaf owner.

No, that is already availble to Tesla owners.

http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/sae-j1772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Our product is the reverse... for LEAF owners to use Tesla public charging (except Supercharger).
 
Tony's adapter will allow a LEAF owner to plug into these types of Tesla Level 2 charging stations...NOT a supercharger, that is a different animal..

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0001/5660/products/high-power-wall-connector2_1024x1024.jpg?v=1365808894" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Please note, there are two different Tesla branded charging systems/devices being discussed here:

Tesla Supercharger - These are all owned 100% and operated by Tesla and are placed in strategic locations near freeways, etc. They provide DC (Direct Current - Like Batteries) fast charging which is limited to Tesla's that have paid for Supercharging. This requires "authentication" with the Tesla "mothership" for each use. A device to convert Supercharger to CHAdeMO (DC port found on LEAFs) would be very difficult to build and would likely require spoofing the credentials of a real Tesla in order to be authenticated. Thus the discussion of theft as this would likely be at least a violation of copyright and other applicable laws.

Tesla HPWC (High Power Wall Charger) - These can be purchased by anyone, individuals or businesses to use for themselves or their clients. They are AC (Alternating Current - Like house plugs) EVSE's (Electric Vehicle Service Equipment - not chargers) that are very similar to a J1772 (standard EVSE protocol) based EVSE and do not authenticate with any source outside of the device itself. Conversion from Tesla AC to J1172 is trivial and can easily go both ways. Tesla's come with an inexpensive J1772 to Tesla adapter and Tony and Quick Charge Power have been converting HWPC's to J1772 for quite some time now. The adapter Tony is talking about for QCP will plug on to the end of a Tesla AC charging plug and adapt that plug to a J1772 charging plug. This is trivial in design, but difficult in part sourcing as the Tesla receptacles are not publicly available.

I hope that helps clear things up.
 
AlanSqB said:
Tesla HPWC (High Power Wall Charger) - These can be purchased by anyone, individuals or businesses to use for themselves or their clients. They are AC (Alternating Current - Like house plugs) EVSE's (Electric Vehicle Service Equipment - not chargers) that are very similar to a J1772 (standard EVSE protocol) based EVSE and do not authenticate with any source outside of the device itself. Conversion from Tesla AC to J1172 is trivial and can easily go both ways. Tesla's come with an inexpensive J1772 to Tesla adapter and Tony and Quick Charge Power have been converting HWPC's to J1772 for quite some time now. The adapter Tony is talking about for QCP will plug on to the end of a Tesla AC charging plug and adapt that plug to a J1772 charging plug. This is trivial in design, but difficult in part sourcing as the Tesla receptacles are not publicly available.

I hope that helps clear things up.

Very nice summary and explanation - thank you!

Question then is are these Tesla HPWC stations being widely deployed? I have a suspicion that they may be in California far more than elsewhere (i.e. where most the Teslas are).

I wonder about the motivation of businesses to provide these vs J1172 - does the Tesla HPWC allow for significantly higher charging rates? Or perhaps those businesses are trying to attract Tesla owners (i.e. if you drive a $100K car perhaps you are a good customer to attract)? Are there areas where there are so many Teslas that they have become the defacto standard?
 
The market appears to be either keeping capability if the "other" method becomes the standard or a household owns both Tesla and non-Tesla and wants one home charger. A subset could be friend/family had the other charger at home and you could charge at her house.
 
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