EVSE relay

Hello!

I drive a 2011 SL, so the warranty is long gone on everything but the battery. We had a pretty bad electrical storm here a few days ago, and it melted right through my surge protector and my evse no longer works. The car, however, is just fine.

Now, I'm deeply annoyed that my surge protector, plus the circuit breaker for the plug, both failed such that it ruined an expensive piece of equipment. I might be able to collect the cost of a new charger via homeowner's insurance, but I'd like to avoid the paperwork if at all possible. So I cracked open the evse and stepped through some basic troubleshooting. I am convinced that it is the 120V to 20.9V relay for the pilot signal, which has gone bad. I have no continuity across the input terminals, no clicking sound happens when I apply power.

Does anyone know where I can get the relay? It's not on any Nissan parts sites. Has anyone tried to get one through Panasonic?

Also the fuse is still good. grr.

I think you mean the power supply, which would make sense in a lightning strike... Perhaps Ingineer can help you out...

Linza said:

I am convinced that it is the 120V to 20.9V relay for the pilot signal, which has gone bad.

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Nothing will protect from a nearby strike! If you are talking about your supplied L1 EVSE then you can look for a replacement on Ebay or send it to Ingineer for a repair and upgrade.

In my former life the main tower at Signal hill was protected from a direct strike. The tower had a very complicated grounding scheme and all antenna cables went through polyphaser protection devices. There is no way a consumer device will survive a nearby strike. We spent thousands protecting the equipment. I do know we had several strikes without a hiccup. Public safety and consumer devices is a whole different ballpark.

Ingineer is from EVSE upgrade, yeah? I sent a message to him already, he said that those units don't fail but 1 of every 10 thousand, and that it's the result of a bad upgrade. He does not sell or replace that component.

Linza said:

Hello!

I drive a 2011 SL, so the warranty is long gone on everything but the battery.

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Just to point out that the power train warranty on the LEAF is also 5 years, 60,000 miles. So unless you're over on mileage you actually have a bit more coverage than you thought.

try digikey or mouser electronics or newark for your part.

Linza said:

Now, I'm deeply annoyed that my surge protector, plus the circuit breaker for the plug, both failed such that it ruined an expensive piece of equipment.

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Learn from the event. Potentially destructive surges are rare - maybe once every seven years. Plug-in protectors do not claim to protect from destructive surges. And sometimes can make damage easier.

Useful recommendations define protection with numbers. For example, a destructive surge might be hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules did your protector claim to absorb? Hundreds? How does its 2 centimeter part block what three miles of sky could not stop?

Fuses, circuit breaker, and GFCI also do not claim to protect hardware. Those devices trip AFTER damage has occurred. To protect human life.

Surge protection must be installed where utility wires enter a building. And must have a low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to single point earth ground (all four words have electrictral significance). This 'whole house' solution is rated to withstand even direct lightning strikes without damage (ie at least 50,000 amps). And costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Even plug-in protectors need protection only possible with this 'whole house' solution. Since that latter solution is proven by over 100 years of science and experience. And is mostly unknown to peers who are mostly educated by advertising. And who never demand numbers with each recommendation.

Just to second some of the thoughts in this thread: if you can't repair it yourself, probably wise to buy one from eBay (they go for $250ish), and sell yours for parts (if you want to part it out, the J1772 cable alone would probably go for something on the order of $75 if it's in good shape, since it's a decent one in the Panasonic EVSEs).

To me repair would be a real challenge. The whole charger is potted in black epoxy. In the first generation the tray can be removed. In the later versions the epoxy fills the case. I converted several first generation EVSE's to OpenEVSE since you can remove the entire guts.

Is it really? Well, I guess that's one way to waterproof it... unfortunate though. Indeed, swapping it out with OpenEVSE guts seems like the right course of action in this case.

When I build my house, it will have excellent surge protection. However, right now I live in an apartment built in the 60s.

I have the 1st gen charger, then, since the pcb comes out with a few screws removed. The relay/transformer/power supply/whatever we decided it is, that is just two screws and two connectors. I took it to the dealership and they were amused that I brought them an exact part instead of the whole charger. The parts counter guy, he took a photo and emailed it to Nissan. We will see what comes back in a few days.

I am definitely considering to replace the guts with OpenEVSE guts, if the one component is very expensive.

Protecting a house against a direct lightning strike is almost impossible unless you want to spend a lot of money for professional equipment designed to do so. The consumer grade residential surge protection that is available will simply be laughed at by the lightning strike!

That said, I seriously doubt that Nissan will tell you anything beyond, "Buy a new EVSE..." If there is a Panasonic part number on the power supply, I'd look around on the net for a replacement... Keep in mind, though, that there might be additional things blown in it of which you are not yet aware...

Linza said:

When I build my house, it will have excellent surge protection. The parts counter guy, he took a photo and emailed it to Nissan. We will see what comes back in a few days.

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TomT said:

Protecting a house against a direct lightning strike is almost impossible unless you want to spend a lot of money for professional equipment designed to do so. The consumer grade residential surge protection that is available will simply be laughed at by the lightning strike!

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The well proven solution used in facilities that cannot have damage is also available for homes. At about $1 per protected appliance. This superior solution is unknown to many only educated by advertising myths and the resulting ineffective plug-in protectors.

Lightning is typically 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector (from companies with integrity) is 50,000 amps. Averting damage is so routine that damage is considered a human mistake.

No protector does protection. When building the house, protection is best installed when footing are poured. Because no protector does protection. Protection is always about the other 'system' component and harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. But that is another topic.

EVSE, if damaged by lightning, means near zero surge protection was used. Sometimes an adjacent protector can even make that damage easier. And then many speculate than nothing can protect from lightning - because they used an ineffective box that does not even claim to protect from destructive surges (but is called a surge protector).

I will design my house to withstand floods and hurricanes, surely I can build in this whole house system. I suppose a grounding mesh under the house would be the first step. Because the house will be on the micro grid with only my dad's house next door, I suppose that will be fewer vulnerable points than if we were on the full grid. Westom, where can I read more about the system of which you speak?


On the original topic of this post, Nissan dealer offered to phone Panasonic Car Audio but does not have a number for Panasonic Kitchen Appliances, which made the charger. PKA won't answer my emails and ohone calls go unanswered. No humans at the number I called.

Linza said:

I will design my house to withstand floods and hurricanes, surely I can build in this whole house system. I suppose a grounding mesh under the house would be the first step.

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Best protection starts when the footing are poured. Two concepts apply: equipotential and conductivity. Best equipotential is an earth ground that completely surrounds the house. A technique originally developed so that munitions dumps suffer direct lightning strikes without damage: Ufer ground.

And example of how one did it in a venue where grounding was difficult and how successful it was:
http://scott-inc.com/html/ufer.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Same techniques will also protect electric cars and all home appliances. For already constructed buildings, other solutions (discussed previously) are recommended.

The point is that adding it after the fact is not trivial. I've had to do it in the past at facilities. And one must way the cost against the possible damage and subsequent consequences, and the likelihood of strikes based on the area of concern... It also depends on what level of protection you are willing to accept...

westom said:

Same techniques will also protect electric cars and all home appliances. For already constructed buildings, other solutions (discussed previously) are recommended.

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TomT said:

I've had to do it in the past at facilities. And one must way the cost against the possible damage and subsequent consequences, and the likelihood of strikes based on the area of concern... It also depends on what level of protection you are willing to accept...

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A potentially destructive surge may occur maybe once every seven years. One can earth a 'whole house' protector for about $1 per protected appliance. Second, one can spend tens or 100 times more money for a plug-in protector that does not claim to protect from that type (destructive) surge. Can sometimes can make damage easier. And in rare cases, causes a house fire. Or, third, one can do what is found in most homes to have protection from all but that destructive surge - do nothing.

Yes, such "protectors" are all but worthless...

westom said:

Second, one can spend tens or 100 times more money for a plug-in protector that does not claim to protect from that type (destructive) surge. Can sometimes can make damage easier. And in rare cases, causes a house fire.

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Does a hand pulled disconnect device provide any protection from the "20,000 joules" as previously reported as the average lghtning strike?

Mine swings blades 180 degrees into the contacts to activate the circuit. GE model - Home Depot. I usually turn my EVSE off in the morning via the disconnect to save Standby electricity and now maybe this lightning risk?