Took the plunge, bought a 2014 Leaf, now need a L2 EVSE...
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cwerdna
Well-known member
You're looking for an EVSE, not a charger (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
.
Anything above 30 amp EVSE (requires a 40 amp circuit) wouldn't allow the Leaf to charge any faster. It won't hurt it either.
Which trim level did you get? If you got an S trim, did you get the "charge package"?
.Anything above 30 amp EVSE (requires a 40 amp circuit) wouldn't allow the Leaf to charge any faster. It won't hurt it either.
Which trim level did you get? If you got an S trim, did you get the "charge package"?
As far as brands, Clipper Creek is a good one, and many of us here their products including me. As there isn't a big price difference between 15/16 amp and 30/32 EVSE's anymore, I would go with the larger EVSE for future-proofing, even if you did end up with a 3.8kW Leaf. Their 32 amp HCS-40 is now only $565 ($589 for the plug-in version), and is well worth the less-than-$200 upgrade from their 15 amp LCS-20: http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product/hcs-40-32a-240v-charging-25-cord/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Your 50 amp circuit can handle an EVSE of up to 40 amps (due to the 80% rule with electrical circuits) but Clipper Creek does not currently make a 40 amp model. Their next step up is the HCS-60 which requires a 60 amp circuit.
The least expensive non-DIY solution is to have EVSE Upgrade do a 120/240 volt modification on the existing OEM EVSE that came with the car, for about $300. That will allow you to charge at campgrounds, truck stops, etc. that have 240 volt outlets but no EVSE's. However it only charges at 20 amps max, so if you have a 6.6kW Leaf you're not charging it at "max speed."
Your 50 amp circuit can handle an EVSE of up to 40 amps (due to the 80% rule with electrical circuits) but Clipper Creek does not currently make a 40 amp model. Their next step up is the HCS-60 which requires a 60 amp circuit.
The least expensive non-DIY solution is to have EVSE Upgrade do a 120/240 volt modification on the existing OEM EVSE that came with the car, for about $300. That will allow you to charge at campgrounds, truck stops, etc. that have 240 volt outlets but no EVSE's. However it only charges at 20 amps max, so if you have a 6.6kW Leaf you're not charging it at "max speed."
Thanks Rondawg and cwerdna,
I bot a 2014 SV model that also has the Quick Charge outlet as well as the trickle charge outlet (I know I am butchering the terminology here... an EV Newbie )
So I guess that means I have the higher 6.6kw charging capacity ????
I was leaning towards Clipper Creek so good to hear the reco... I will go with that one...
Excited about my first all electric vehicle... just hope I don't end up having to thumb a ride home...
On a side note, I passed a Tesla in the middle of the Mojave Desert on I-15 this past Thursday, he was apparently headed to Las Vegas from I assume LA (As don't think there are many Tesla owners in Barstow)... I sure hope he made it but I don't think I would have tried it...
Cheers
I bot a 2014 SV model that also has the Quick Charge outlet as well as the trickle charge outlet (I know I am butchering the terminology here... an EV Newbie
)So I guess that means I have the higher 6.6kw charging capacity ????
I was leaning towards Clipper Creek so good to hear the reco... I will go with that one...
Excited about my first all electric vehicle... just hope I don't end up having to thumb a ride home...
On a side note, I passed a Tesla in the middle of the Mojave Desert on I-15 this past Thursday, he was apparently headed to Las Vegas from I assume LA (As don't think there are many Tesla owners in Barstow)... I sure hope he made it but I don't think I would have tried it...
Cheers
cwerdna
Well-known member
No problem. You have the 6.x kW on-board charger (all '13+ SV and SL trims have it). Yes, a 240 volt 30 amp EVSE would speed up charging (and reduce charging losses) over a 16 amp one.SDLEAFER said:Thanks Rondawg and cwerdna,
I bot a 2014 SV model that also has the Quick Charge outlet as well as the trickle charge outlet (I know I am butchering the terminology here... an EV Newbie
So I guess that means I have the higher 6.6kw charging capacity ????
Yes, Clipper Creek is well-regarded amongst the EV/PHEV community.
Those are inlets, not outlets, BTW.
baustin
Well-known member
SDLEAFER said:
I bought the GE Unit from Home Depot. It was easy to install, it works well, and I am happy with it. The device is sold for hard-wired installation, but you could easily put a cord on it like many of the others come with.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-EV-Charger-Indoor-Outdoor-Level-2-DuraStation-Wall-Mount-with-18-ft-Cord-EVDSWGH-CP01/205808537" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ishiyakazuo
Well-known member
Yep, me too. Cheapest 30A EVSE I could find at the time from a reputable manufacturer. Add in a $15 range cord from Amazon and you're in businessbaustin said:
Complete newbie here. Just picked up my 2015 Leaf S this past weekend. Loving the vehicle so far.
I, too, am seeking advice on the L2 EVSE. I had narrowed my choices to either the EVSE Upgrade ($287) (16A/3.8kW), or the ClipperCreek LCS-25 ($469 hardwired/$485 w/plug) (20A/4.8kW). The ClipperCreek LCS-20 is even cheaper at $379 for 3.6kW.
My understanding, again, newbie understanding is that the difference in "time-to-charge" my Leaf between those models and more expensive, more powerful models, is negligible, given my likely needs.
This is my wife's daily commuter, and she's only putting 30-40 miles per day on the vehicle. So, my thinking that either of these would easily top off my battery during the hours of 11PM to 7AM, when my power rates are reduced. I signed up for the GA Power Electric Vehicle Program, so my electric rate during those hours is only $.02/kWHr.
For example, as I set the timer last night, the vehicle display read that to charge at 3.3kW, it would take 3 hours, but at 6.6kW, it would still take 2.5. I'm sure the onboard computer has its limitations, but is it non-linear like that or would the 6.6 charge the car twice as fast as 3.3?
So, my particular question is whether or not I am thinking about this correctly, or am I missing something? On top of everything else, I already have an unused, 30amp breaker in my panel, used by the former owner for a large table saw in a workshop. So, I'd like to stay under 30A, for ease of installation.
Thanks for any advice you can offer this newbie.
I, too, am seeking advice on the L2 EVSE. I had narrowed my choices to either the EVSE Upgrade ($287) (16A/3.8kW), or the ClipperCreek LCS-25 ($469 hardwired/$485 w/plug) (20A/4.8kW). The ClipperCreek LCS-20 is even cheaper at $379 for 3.6kW.
My understanding, again, newbie understanding is that the difference in "time-to-charge" my Leaf between those models and more expensive, more powerful models, is negligible, given my likely needs.
This is my wife's daily commuter, and she's only putting 30-40 miles per day on the vehicle. So, my thinking that either of these would easily top off my battery during the hours of 11PM to 7AM, when my power rates are reduced. I signed up for the GA Power Electric Vehicle Program, so my electric rate during those hours is only $.02/kWHr.
For example, as I set the timer last night, the vehicle display read that to charge at 3.3kW, it would take 3 hours, but at 6.6kW, it would still take 2.5. I'm sure the onboard computer has its limitations, but is it non-linear like that or would the 6.6 charge the car twice as fast as 3.3?
So, my particular question is whether or not I am thinking about this correctly, or am I missing something? On top of everything else, I already have an unused, 30amp breaker in my panel, used by the former owner for a large table saw in a workshop. So, I'd like to stay under 30A, for ease of installation.
Thanks for any advice you can offer this newbie.
fooljoe
Well-known member
Either of those choices would work well for a pre-existing 30A 240V circuit. Are you sure it's a 240V circuit and not just a 30A 120V circuit though? And is it a complete circuit with a receptacle accessible to where you'll park or is it just a breaker? Just a breaker isn't going to help much...
Of those you listed I'd recommend EVSEupgrade, since it's the least out of pocket and most portable/adjustable, but you might find that you want to keep one unit in the car for "emergency" charging (even though you'll probably almost never use it.) An even better choice would be an openEVSE - look in the for sale section of the forum and you'll find some great options.
You didn't mention whether your car has the charge package with the 6.6 kW charger (I suppose it does if your car gives you 2 charging times, but I'm not familiar with the newest models.) If that's the case you'll see some benefit going from 16A up to 20A or 24A (which an openEVSE can do), but as you mentioned there is some non-linearity, with the extent varying according to depth of discharge, as the amperage will taper off as the battery nears 100%. In any case, you'll have no problem keeping all your charging within your 8 hour window even if you went all the way down to 12A (you could likely even get by with 120V charging, but it's less efficient.)
Of those you listed I'd recommend EVSEupgrade, since it's the least out of pocket and most portable/adjustable, but you might find that you want to keep one unit in the car for "emergency" charging (even though you'll probably almost never use it.) An even better choice would be an openEVSE - look in the for sale section of the forum and you'll find some great options.
You didn't mention whether your car has the charge package with the 6.6 kW charger (I suppose it does if your car gives you 2 charging times, but I'm not familiar with the newest models.) If that's the case you'll see some benefit going from 16A up to 20A or 24A (which an openEVSE can do), but as you mentioned there is some non-linearity, with the extent varying according to depth of discharge, as the amperage will taper off as the battery nears 100%. In any case, you'll have no problem keeping all your charging within your 8 hour window even if you went all the way down to 12A (you could likely even get by with 120V charging, but it's less efficient.)
No the 6.6 kW Leaf does not charge twice as fast as the 3.3 for two reasons: 1.) it's really a 6.0 kW Leaf (the old Leaf was 3.8 kW from the wall but supplied 3.3kW to the battery, the upgraded models pull 6.6kW from the wall but supply 6.0 kW to the battery), and 2.) the charging rate tapers off as the battery gets closer to full.
Still, a fully drained Leaf battery takes 8 hours to fully recharge at 16 amps so even if your wife came home everyday with the car "on fumes" you would have no problems fully recharging the car during your power company's off-peak electric rates.
If you already have a 30 amp circuit, yes the easiest thing to do is stay at or below 24 amps (the 80% rule for electrical circuits) for your EVSE. I don't know of any non-DIY 24 amp EVSE's (and I can't find any using Google) so you'd go with a 20 amp model like the Clipper Creek LCS-25, which is what I've had for two years now.
The EVSE Upgrade is the least expensive non-DIY solution but of course means you will have to find alternate charging sources while the upgrade is being done. The company does have an express service but that's an extra charge and you have to leave a hefty deposit, since an already-upgraded model is being shipped to you in advance.
If you want dual-voltage convenience without having to do a swap, there is the AV TurboCord, but it's limited to 16 amps at 240 volts. Again not a problem if your off-peak window is 8 hours long.
Even though there are few EV's that can take advantage of it at this time, those who do put in high-capacity EVSE's for something like a Leaf are doing so for future-proofing reasons. As battery prices come down, capacities will increase. Unless charging rate also increases (both at the EVSE and the car) that will mean longer charging times.
Still, a fully drained Leaf battery takes 8 hours to fully recharge at 16 amps so even if your wife came home everyday with the car "on fumes" you would have no problems fully recharging the car during your power company's off-peak electric rates.
If you already have a 30 amp circuit, yes the easiest thing to do is stay at or below 24 amps (the 80% rule for electrical circuits) for your EVSE. I don't know of any non-DIY 24 amp EVSE's (and I can't find any using Google) so you'd go with a 20 amp model like the Clipper Creek LCS-25, which is what I've had for two years now.
The EVSE Upgrade is the least expensive non-DIY solution but of course means you will have to find alternate charging sources while the upgrade is being done. The company does have an express service but that's an extra charge and you have to leave a hefty deposit, since an already-upgraded model is being shipped to you in advance.
If you want dual-voltage convenience without having to do a swap, there is the AV TurboCord, but it's limited to 16 amps at 240 volts. Again not a problem if your off-peak window is 8 hours long.
Even though there are few EV's that can take advantage of it at this time, those who do put in high-capacity EVSE's for something like a Leaf are doing so for future-proofing reasons. As battery prices come down, capacities will increase. Unless charging rate also increases (both at the EVSE and the car) that will mean longer charging times.
Thank you for the good advice. I have confirmed that the unused, 30 amp breaker is 240V....but, the previous homeowner installed it with 12AWG wire, which is insufficient for 30 amps. So, I'll be swapping that out for 10AWG for this install. I will be the one installing the outlet or junction box for the EVSE, and I'm comfortable doing it. My panel box is in my basement, almost directly underneath where the wire needs to be run, so it will be relatively easy.
I'm probably leaning toward the ClipperCreek LCS-25, and then I'll just store the OEM cable in the pouch for emergencies.
Thanks again.
I'm probably leaning toward the ClipperCreek LCS-25, and then I'll just store the OEM cable in the pouch for emergencies.
Thanks again.
BassAtl said:
If you're going to go through the trouble of swapping it out, and your main service has the capacity, try to go for a 40 amp circuit. More than you'd need for a Leaf, but you'll want the extra capacity for a future EV.
fooljoe
Well-known member
+1, although I'd suggest 50 amp, which would enable the 40 amp charging that your eventual Tesla will make use of.RonDawg said:
If you're going to be doing any sort of electrical work, why not make sure you only have to do it once?ishiyakazuo
Well-known member
+1. If nothing else, run wiring that can handle it (6AWG?), and then adjust the breaker size down as required.fooljoe said:
Thanks for all of the good advice.
In taking another look at my panel and sub-panel, I've decided to have an electrician come out and inspect, before I decide what size EVSE to install. I know the sum of the amperage of the breakers is not representative of the load, but I have 150 amp service to my house. Main panel is full and has breakers adding up to 625 amps, one of which is a 50 amp breaker for a sub-panel, which by itself has breakers adding up to 275 amps. The unused, 30 amp breaker is part of the 275. The sub-panel serves a finished basement, which is only used as a TV/game room or when we have guests, but it does have its own heat pump and refrigerator. Seems like I'm pushing my luck to add an EVSE to that load.
I know there are load calculations, based on square footage of the house, large appliances, and so on, and I've yet to do those. And, I do have an unused, 30 amp breaker in the aforementioned sub-panel, that was used by the previous homeowner for a 240V table saw.
However....before I start adding any more to the load side of the equation, I'd like to get a licensed electrician in here to determine whether I need to upgrade to 200 amp service.
I'm really not interested in forking over a bunch of cash for a service upgrade, but I'm even less interested in creating an unsafe condition. I have no problem with breakers tripping now, so if he tells me I'm safe to add the EVSE, so long as I keep it under 30amps, then that will dictate my purchase.
Thanks.
In taking another look at my panel and sub-panel, I've decided to have an electrician come out and inspect, before I decide what size EVSE to install. I know the sum of the amperage of the breakers is not representative of the load, but I have 150 amp service to my house. Main panel is full and has breakers adding up to 625 amps, one of which is a 50 amp breaker for a sub-panel, which by itself has breakers adding up to 275 amps. The unused, 30 amp breaker is part of the 275. The sub-panel serves a finished basement, which is only used as a TV/game room or when we have guests, but it does have its own heat pump and refrigerator. Seems like I'm pushing my luck to add an EVSE to that load.
I know there are load calculations, based on square footage of the house, large appliances, and so on, and I've yet to do those. And, I do have an unused, 30 amp breaker in the aforementioned sub-panel, that was used by the previous homeowner for a 240V table saw.
However....before I start adding any more to the load side of the equation, I'd like to get a licensed electrician in here to determine whether I need to upgrade to 200 amp service.
I'm really not interested in forking over a bunch of cash for a service upgrade, but I'm even less interested in creating an unsafe condition. I have no problem with breakers tripping now, so if he tells me I'm safe to add the EVSE, so long as I keep it under 30amps, then that will dictate my purchase.
Thanks.
baustin
Well-known member
You can figure it out yourself , if you want, but it will take a little work. Look at the draw amount (not the breaker size) for all your electrical appliances/devices while running. Determine worst case scenario for coldest winter day and hottest summer day. Add up the draw for all devices that will be operating at the same time, include an extra 10% for anything you may have overlooked. Compare that amount to your current service size. If that difference is more than 32 amps (continuous draw of an EVSE on a 40 amp breaker), then you are fine to put in what you need with your existing service. If it is less than 32 amps, you will need to adjust your EVSE accordingly, or do a service upgrade.
