Looking at houses: need some rough estimates for evse work

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pkulak

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Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
758
Location
Portland, OR
A lot of the houses here are pretty old. No grounded outlets, 150-amp service if you're lucky. Breaker box on the wrong side of the house. etc.

Let's say, worst case: 150-amp service that can't handle another 50-amp breaker, on the wrong side of the house with 50-year-old wiring. Assuming I have my own EVSE, what would it cost to get an outlet installed at the front of the house somewhere?
 
Without more detail, here's the best estimate I can come up with...

Upgraded electrical panel of unknown size and/or difficulty: $1,500 - $2,500
Long run of unspecified length conduit and wire for 50 amp circuit from panel to EVSE receptacle: $1,000 - $2,000
 
Randy said:
Without more detail, here's the best estimate I can come up with...

Upgraded electrical panel of unknown size and/or difficulty: $1,500 - $2,500
Long run of unspecified length conduit and wire for 50 amp circuit from panel to EVSE receptacle: $1,000 - $2,000


Well that makes me feel good about the price I paid. I got my own EVSE and ran from the box in the basement on one side of the house outside and across the ground into the garage (50 foot wide lot, not sure the actual run). Did 2 for a future second EV, one at 30 amps on the breaker but was told the wire could handle more and another with a 50 amp breaker, think the wire could handle 60 but my 200 amp service couldn't handle much more. Paid $1200 Canadian.

One thing to think about if you have a 150 amp box that runs an electric dryer it may be cheaper to switch to a gas dryer instead. I know some places have cleared out gas dryers here, scratch and dent or mix and match for huge discounts.
 
I'm not so sure about the worst case given above (150 amp). I have a 45 year old house with 100 amp service. I charge every day at 20A using my Clipper Creek LCS-25. I can use my electric range and central air conditioning at the same time with no difficulty. No service upgrade was needed.
 
Yeah, I use electricity up the ying-yang, and I've only got a 100A service. I've also got a 40A breaker going to my EVSE, but as I've only got a '12 LEAF, I've not done anything to exercise it.
In my case, I've got an ICE still for when the LEAF won't get me where I'm going during a given day on a single charge, so I only charge it overnight, so that could be an issue if you intend to use the EVSE for all of your charging needs, even during the day. (At this point, I've only used my other car a few times in the 2 weeks I've owned the LEAF.)
 
Just a thought: it would likely be cheaper to just add an appropriate 50-amp outdoor breaker box to the outside attached to the load center where power comes to your home, then run the circuit from there to your EVSE. If you must bury the circuit, it will be far more expensive for the digging than if you could run the conduit attached to the outside of the house or through it (attic?, basement?) somehow. As always, local codes will define or negate this option.

Suggest you try to avoid the cost and long labor time to replace and re-wire an outside load center, or inside breaker box. Add-on service is usually much cheaper, dedicates the EVSE to its own supply, and doesn't reduce your available power for the rest of the house.

Last item is the distance. The NEC and local codes set wire size requirements, and the size is determined by the carrying amperage of the circuit and the distance of the run. Wire of the sizes needed to safely carry 50 amps with minimal voltage loss and code compliance can get expensive quickly, even more so if it has to be in conduit, or is the type of wire than can be buried. A local licensed electrician should be completely aware of (a) appropriate wire sizes for your application, (b) code installation requirements, (c) permit and inspection requirements, and (d) good practices.

Final suggestion: have a circuit breaker installed upstream of your EVSE but close to it so that you can easily shut all power to the unit for installation, troubleshooting, replacement, etc., and not have to trek back and forth to the load center.
 
SalisburySam said:
Just a thought: it would likely be cheaper to just add an appropriate 50-amp outdoor breaker box to the outside attached to the load center where power comes to your home, then run the circuit from there to your EVSE. If you must bury the circuit, it will be far more expensive for the digging than if you could run the conduit attached to the outside of the house or through it (attic?, basement?) somehow. As always, local codes will define or negate this option.

Suggest you try to avoid the cost and long labor time to replace and re-wire an outside load center, or inside breaker box. Add-on service is usually much cheaper, dedicates the EVSE to its own supply, and doesn't reduce your available power for the rest of the house.

Last item is the distance. The NEC and local codes set wire size requirements, and the size is determined by the carrying amperage of the circuit and the distance of the run. Wire of the sizes needed to safely carry 50 amps with minimal voltage loss and code compliance can get expensive quickly, even more so if it has to be in conduit, or is the type of wire than can be buried. A local licensed electrician should be completely aware of (a) appropriate wire sizes for your application, (b) code installation requirements, (c) permit and inspection requirements, and (d) good practices.

Final suggestion: have a circuit breaker installed upstream of your EVSE but close to it so that you can easily shut all power to the unit for installation, troubleshooting, replacement, etc., and not have to trek back and forth to the load center.

Good ideas, thanks! I didn't even think about installing a new panel just for the EV. Thats a really good idea, since even when a house has the main breaker in some horrible area (basement on the other side of the house, for example), the actually supply comes in from the street right over the garage.

Of course, I'm sure an electrician would tell me all of this when he or she came out, but it's really good to know a bit before hand so it can inform my house purchase decisions.
 
I too have only 100A service. My panel is outside and the sun really gets it hot. I was low on charge so I started charging at 40A. Without thinking I started my usual treadmill exercise. About 20 min in the main breaker tripped.

I usually charge late at night using the OpenEVSE's RTC. That works well but for daytime charging, that is the only thing I can do. No other loads allowed!
 
pkulak said:
A lot of the houses here are pretty old. No grounded outlets, 150-amp service if you're lucky. Breaker box on the wrong side of the house. etc.

Let's say, worst case: 150-amp service that can't handle another 50-amp breaker, on the wrong side of the house with 50-year-old wiring. Assuming I have my own EVSE, what would it cost to get an outlet installed at the front of the house somewhere?

Whatever you decide, don't short-cut the use of an electrician who will follow the local codes for your area; its somewhat rare but I've seen some mickey-mouse self or otherwise Rube Goldberg wiring that could lead to electrical fires, constant tripping of breakers, etc. We upgraded our 100-amp to 200-amp service years ago because we had an electric dryer that we brought with us that was brand new and it just made sense to do it (the previous owner used a natural gas dryer) --- turns out years later adding the separate 40-amp connection for the L2 charger showed we still had plenty of capacity in the box, etc. so actually saved some money --- our circuit box is in our garage so simply running conduit along the concrete foundation knee wall (hard-wired --- some prefer a plug so they can take the L2 charger with them) was a nice clean install and the L2 EVSE stays out of the elements (another plus). Here in IL, they also offered a 50% EVSE + install rebate (at the time) so we used someone who had done a few of these already (almost all for Tesla's it turns out); if/when we move this will hopefully be a nice selling feature for the next owner.
 
SalisburySam said:
...

Final suggestion: have a circuit breaker installed upstream of your EVSE but close to it so that you can easily shut all power to the unit for installation, troubleshooting, replacement, etc., and not have to trek back and forth to the load center.
The latest NEC requires a disconnect means within close visual proximity of the device.
That is why a lot of the eVProject installs were done with a receptacle to serve as the disconnect device.

But also can be done with a breaker in close proximity.
 
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