Charging Station Dilemma, need advice

Hello everyone, I'm looking for some advice.

Last week, my L2 charging station stopped working. It is the Legrand 16 amp station with 24' cord, model L2EVSE16. I followed all the troubleshooting tips in the manual and ultimately had to write to the company to get help. Based on the sequence of error lights on the display, they confirmed it is permanently broken, and agreed to send me a replacement. However, they no longer make the 16 amp station; it has been replaced with a 30 amp model with 18' cord. They were nice enough to send me this 30 amp unit as a replacement.

The issue, however, is that the wiring needs to be upgraded (I believe from 12 gauge to 8 gauge?), and the breaker needs to be switched from 20 amp to 40 amp. I had an electrician come to quote the job and it's going to be about $400 for labor plus at least $150 for parts. We have a 75' run of conduit from where the charging station is to the panel, and the conduit would have to be replaced with a thicker conduit to fit the thicker gauge wires. To top it all off, the conduit runs behind a brick staircase that would need to be partially dismantled and rebuilt. Not worth it, IMO.

So, the dilemma: I have a broken 16 amp station, a brand new (in the box) 30 amp station, and I'm stuck charging on 120v. I only have 9 weeks left on my lease, so it does seem somewhat silly to even bother with it, but I'm going to eventually (after the summer) get a new EV and I'll want 240v charging again. Plus I miss pre-heating my car on these cold winter days.

I've been considering ordering an inexpensive 16 amp station and swapping it out with the broken one myself, and then selling the new 30 amp unit they sent me on eBay to recoup some of my cost. The cheapest I've found is by Bosch, but it only has a 12' cord. I just measured and I need at least 19' to reach from the station to my car. Does anyone think that I could disassemble the Bosch and connect the 24' cord from my broken Legrand station? I could then probably sell the 12' Bosch cord on eBay, too.

Any help is greatly appreciated...

Get a Clipper Creek 15 amp 22' cord LCS-20.

http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product/charging-station-lcs-20-level-2/

smkettner said:

Get a Clipper Creek 15 amp 22' cord LCS-20.

http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product/charging-station-lcs-20-level-2/

Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion. Definitely is on my list of ideas right now.

One thing I was wondering was would it be possible to convert my existing Legrand unit to an OpenEVSE? Would that be more effort than it's worth?

One thing you haven't stated is what year Leaf you have. I'm sure that some electricians on here might disagree, because its "not to code", but you could temporarily use the 30 amp EVSE with a 2011 or 2012 Leaf without any change in the load seen by your wiring or breaker. Just swap the EVSE yourself, and make sure you upgrade the wiring and breaker before you get a new EV.

NYLEAF said:

So, the dilemma: I have a broken 16 amp station, a brand new (in the box) 30 amp station, and I'm stuck charging on 120v. I only have 9 weeks left on my lease, so it does seem somewhat silly to even bother with it, but I'm going to eventually (after the summer) get a new EV and I'll want 240v charging again. Plus I miss pre-heating my car on these cold winter days.

Click to expand...

Check the manual and see if the stations has switch settings for amps. My 32 amp station had a switch to set it lower (like 16a, 10a, 6a, etc.) It basically tells the car what the max charging current is and the car (the Leaf at least) will follow that setting. It would save having the wiring melt when using the new unit. If it has no settings like this, then you might need to buy the lower amp model suggested earlier.

keydiver said:

One thing you haven't stated is what year Leaf you have. I'm sure that some electricians on here might disagree, because its "not to code", but you could temporarily use the 30 amp EVSE with a 2011 or 2012 Leaf without any change in the load seen by your wiring or breaker. Just swap the EVSE yourself, and make sure you upgrade the wiring and breaker before you get a new EV.

Click to expand...

+1^

You have a 2012, right? It won't draw more than 16A with it's 3.3 OBC no matter what EVSE you have.

Nice of Legrand to send you a free one. Can you ream out the existing conduit channel to fit a larger one, instead of dismantling the stairs?

I'm guessing you investigated this, but there is now available round-profile cable. If you have the flat kind installed, the round may fit in the same conduit. Also, for an EVSE you can use (if properly labeled) 2 wire plus ground cable, in place of three wire, as the neutral wire isn't used in most EVSEs...

Yes, I have a 2012, so I know I won't see any benefit from the 30amp station until I upgrade to a new EV.

I'm a bit nervous to put the 30 amp station up without upgrading the wiring and breaker, even though it would work fine for now, because I'll be stuck in the same position again once I get my new EV.

The electrician that was here made it sound like the 8 gauge wires would fit in the existing conduit, but that it wouldn't be safe. They would overheat in there, I guess? I don't know what size conduit we currently have, but I'm fairly certain we are already using round wire. He didn't take anything apart to look in the conduit, so I'm not sure how much I trust him.

Ideally I'd like to just have a 30 amp station but I really don't want to spend $600 on it after having already spent so much on the original installation just a few years ago.

No, the point was, you can use the 30A station for now, and in the meantime figure out what you want to do. The existing wires and breaker will work until you get a newer EV.

NYLEAF said:

So, the dilemma: I have a broken 16 amp station, a brand new (in the box) 30 amp station, and I'm stuck charging on 120v.

Click to expand...

Unfortunate, and understand that the electrical work being expensive is a pain, but...

NYLEAF said:

I only have 9 weeks left on my lease, so it does seem somewhat silly to even bother with it, but I'm going to eventually (after the summer) get a new EV and I'll want 240v charging again. Plus I miss pre-heating my car on these cold winter days.

Click to expand...

OK, 9 weeks? And you'll want 240v again?

Spend the money...

Yeah, you could use a 16A 240V EVSE, but long term, you won't want to..
It's much faster at 6Kwh. Also, at 3.3Kwh, pre-heat still takes some battery. 6Kwh shouldn't. (I understand???)

You're going to want the higher AMPs.

I'd recommend staying at 110v until you are ready to spend on the electrical.
And if you can do as much by yourself or with friends to drop the cost, do that (while being safe!)..
But don't skimp when you will need/want it later. A few hundred bucks more, while painful now, is a small amount considering the price of the car.. ;-)

I'm not necessarily a big believer in the future proofing thing (buy a big EVSE now even when your car won't need it, because a car later will), but when you're talking weeks and not years.... That's not future.. ;-)
(Also, with the price drop on the bigger EVSEs, I'm no longer convinced it's worth getting a 16A model just based on price, but that's not an issue with you..)

Good luck..

desiv

NYLEAF said:

Yes, I have a 2012, so I know I won't see any benefit from the 30amp station until I upgrade to a new EV.

I'm a bit nervous to put the 30 amp station up without upgrading the wiring and breaker, even though it would work fine for now, because I'll be stuck in the same position again once I get my new EV.

The electrician that was here made it sound like the 8 gauge wires would fit in the existing conduit, but that it wouldn't be safe. They would overheat in there, I guess? I don't know what size conduit we currently have, but I'm fairly certain we are already using round wire. He didn't take anything apart to look in the conduit, so I'm not sure how much I trust him.

Ideally I'd like to just have a 30 amp station but I really don't want to spend $600 on it after having already spent so much on the original installation just a few years ago.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't use the 30A station on the 20A circuit. Even though your 2012 only pulls 16 amps, it still leaves open the possiblity that someone might try charging a different vehicle. It might sound like an impossibility but it's always better to enforce something by design rather than by procedure.

Like someone said, some EVSE allow you to choose the Amp level with internal switches. If that's not the case with yours, it still may be possible to reconfigure it for 16A use. Iirc, the amperage the EVSE advertises is controlled by a single resistor. As far as I know, replacing that resistor with one of the appropriate value for 16A service would in-effect convert it to a 16A EVSE. If I did something like that, I'd also change any printing or placards on the box to reflect the new 16A rating.

Of course, I'd run this by someone with deeper knowledge but it seems like a worthwhile approach to me to buy a 99-cent resistor instead of spending hundreds of dollars on equipment and wiring.

NYLEAF said:

... I've been considering ordering an inexpensive 16 amp station and swapping it out with the broken one myself, and then selling the new 30 amp unit they sent me on eBay to recoup some of my cost. The cheapest I've found is by Bosch, but it only has a 12' cord. I just measured and I need at least 19' to reach from the station to my car. Does anyone think that I could disassemble the Bosch and connect the 24' cord from my broken Legrand station? I could then probably sell the 12' Bosch cord on eBay, too. ...

Click to expand...

I think that you could swap the cords pretty easily. I also think it would be fairly straightforward to fix your current EVSE with OpenEVSE parts. You would basically replace all of the electronics with the OpenEVSE parts. You can almost certainly reuse the relay that's in there, and maybe other parts.

The first step for either of these options is to open up the broken one to see what's inside. To transplant the cable to a new EVSE, you want to try and get the long one out without having to cut anything. Should be straightforward.

To do the OpenEVSE transplant, inventory the parts and post some pictures over on the OpenEVSE thread. I'll be very surprised if you don't get advice that will let you fix it for $100 or even less.

I'm a bit nervous to put the 30 amp station up without upgrading the wiring and breaker, even though it would work fine for now, because I'll be stuck in the same position again once I get my new EV.

The electrician that was here made it sound like the 8 gauge wires would fit in the existing conduit, but that it wouldn't be safe. They would overheat in there, I guess? I don't know what size conduit we currently have, but I'm fairly certain we are already using round wire. He didn't take anything apart to look in the conduit, so I'm not sure how much I trust him.

Click to expand...

If you have 10 gauge three wire cable, and 8 gauge three wire cable will barely fit in the conduit, then I'd bet that 8 gauge 2 wire (plus ground) cable would fit fine, if you can find it.

LeftieBiker said:

If you have 10 gauge three wire cable, and 8 gauge three wire cable will barely fit in the conduit, then I'd bet that 8 gauge 2 wire (plus ground) cable would fit fine, if you can find it.

Click to expand...

But the National Electric Code has requirements on fill.
Electrician is expected to meet code.
Not just a matter of it fitting.

If you cut the existing conduit, is there enough access to ream the stair section out and put larger conduit through?

TimLee said:

LeftieBiker said:

If you have 10 gauge three wire cable, and 8 gauge three wire cable will barely fit in the conduit, then I'd bet that 8 gauge 2 wire (plus ground) cable would fit fine, if you can find it.

Click to expand...

But the National Electric Code has requirements on fill.
Electrician is expected to meet code.
Not just a matter of it fitting.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking that if you properly label the circuit, it won't violate code as long as it's dedicated to the EVSE.

Nubo said:

I wouldn't use the 30A station on the 20A circuit. Even though your 2012 only pulls 16 amps, it still leaves open the possiblity that someone might try charging a different vehicle. It might sound like an impossibility but it's always better to enforce something by design rather than by procedure.

Click to expand...

Wouldn't that simply trip the breaker before any damage is done?

DesertSprings said:

Nubo said:

I wouldn't use the 30A station on the 20A circuit. Even though your 2012 only pulls 16 amps, it still leaves open the possiblity that someone might try charging a different vehicle. It might sound like an impossibility but it's always better to enforce something by design rather than by procedure.

Click to expand...

Wouldn't that simply trip the breaker before any damage is done?

Click to expand...

In general, yes, but if the breaker were to fail, it could cause a fire instead. The breaker is a failsafe device. It's best not to trip it on purpose.

I've decided that I'm going to avoid installing the 30 amp station entirely. It's too much trouble to switch out the conduit/wiring/breaker, and I'm nervous about putting it on a 20 amp breaker and risking a fire one day if someone with a 6.6kW OBC decided to use my station (unlikely, but who knows). I'll probably put the 30 amp station up on eBay and use the funds to fix or replace my existing station.

Davewill, I've actually got some experience with the J1772 cable on my unit. A year or so after first installing it, some plastic near the plug cracked and they sent me a warranty replacement unit. Rather than swap the units, I just took them both apart and swapped the plugs. It was fairly straightforward, but I'm wondering if a new unit (like the Bosch on Amazon, for example) would have a similar internal setup or not.

I'm leaning towards the OpenEVSE route. I like the idea of essentially repairing the existing station rather than wasting money on a new one. I've even had a generous offer for assistance with building it, which I appreciate very much. I'm going to take the station off the wall on Sunday and open it up and see what's what.

Thanks everyone!

NYLEAF said:

I've actually got some experience with the J1772 cable on my unit. A year or so after first installing it, some plastic near the plug cracked and they sent me a warranty replacement unit. Rather than swap the units, I just took them both apart and swapped the plugs.

Click to expand...

What happened to the rest of that unit?