A middle ground between 110V trickle charging and 240V L2:

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beachfitrob said:
http://rcbullock.blogspot.com/2015/02/nissan-leaf-110v-charging-heres-middle.html

I wrote this up today. It's about 40% faster than the OEM 110V EVSE solution and adds usability to the Leaf.

I have not seen this mentioned as a sort of middle ground solution: 16A 110V charging and how to go about that.

Cross posted in the EVSE section.

if you are talking about modifying the OEM EVSE that is nothing new, google evseupgrade.com or if you want the full history read

62 pages of http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2707" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; then
37 pages of http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3625" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

anything you could think of ever doing to the oem EVSE has been done before.

as to 120v specifically I think this quote sums it up

Ingineer said:
It could be programmed at up to 16A on 120V, but only when using a special NEMA 5-20 outlet. (20A capable) Most residential outlets are NEMA 5-15, (15A) and thus the maximum allowed is 12A continuous. (125% rule) To keep within the electrical code requirements the unit will not allow programming of over 12A when on 120V for this reason.

Here's what the NEMA 5-20 special plug looks like:
pic


The specifications are correct with 16A, as it has the capability, but it is not possible to enable it on a limited 15A outlet. Sorry for the confusion.

The 2013 LEAF will permit 16A charging on 120V, but the 2011-2012's had a 12A hard limit. The 16A specification only applies to the 2nd generation (2013) EVSE's.

-Phil
 
That is part of the article. I'm well aware of it.

The point was that no one I can recall has ever mentioned the positive aspects of the middle ground that may be available at zero interim cost when going from 110V to 240V.
 
beachfitrob said:
That is part of the article. I'm well aware of it.

The point was that no one I can recall has ever mentioned the positive aspects of the middle ground that may be available at zero interim cost when going from 110V to 240V.

Not trying to shut you down but that has been discussed very thoroughly on this board. Many times over the years.

It was much desired in the early days with only 3.3KW chargers in the 2011/2012 leaf but as I quoted above not an option.

Once 6.6KW chargers became an option people wanted the faster charging and you saw less discussion of 16a 120v options. But if you look around enough you'll see it mentioned.
 
That might all be true, but I certainly don't recall seeing it in the terms I wrote up. All that info is scattered about, IMHO.

I went right to 240V, but I might have taken a different path had my finances been different, the circuit run had been different, and if I had known about the EVSE upgrade 1A programmable increment.

All the article does is wrap all that up in a neat bow for consideration.

I've been a Leaf owner for over a year, 20,000 miles+ and I never really thought about it this way or in terms of 'public' 16A 110V. I just assumed it was 12A 110V or 16A+ 240V and up.

There will be 'new' owners in this boat, IMHO, that will never wade through all the info and come quickly to the conclusions in the writeup.
 
OK but you could add so much more

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15680" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; a discussion about 30a "RV" outlets. They can be used for 12a 120v for the 2011/2012 and 16a 120v with evseupgrade for 2013 and newer models, or even 18, 20, 22 or 24a 120v with an alternate open style evse (amp limit varies per EVSE) for 2013 and newer models.

I know my house has one on the shed and I'm sure many other homeowners may have a 30a socket sitting idle from a prior homeowner that had an RV.
 
Sure, I've actually looked at that adapter for myself since I already have an RV. I kinda sort of want to tow the Leaf somewhere with it. And my generator (which should be good on the freq) would more than drive the 3.3Kwhr leaf. Mine's 5.5 IIRC if I had to use it. I have a 50A outlet on my RV.

The points were mainly two that I wanted to highlight:

1. You can upgrade in stages for zero cost to do it in steps if you have the outlet.
1a. Raise awareness that you might already have a 20A 110V without knowing it...and that it might be highly useful. I added a bit about "What if you have a second car?" I can feed 6.7 Kwhr total to two cars. I never thought about that until now. We are shopping for a second EV/PHEV.
2. For many people they may be satisfied with the 16A 110V, especially if running 240V would be prohibitive. Saving a few dollars a month might take a long time to recoup for most folks. My friend and I spent under $200 so far and that was including an L6-20 initially for a different EVSE and then and upgrade to L6-30 later. Saving $5-6 a month plus the increased usability was a no brainer plus less run time for the Leaf charging system. If it had cost me, say $600-$1000 or something crazy then I might have chosen this option for a while. I bought a new 20A unit and some adapters for $600. So it might be easier digested in $600 chunks vs. $1200 at once. (Guessing on what a long 240V run by a company might cost.)

I also did some math on mileage gained scenarios for the 110V 16A.
 
dhanson865 said:
Ingineer said:
It could be programmed at up to 16A on 120V, but only when using a special NEMA 5-20 outlet. (20A capable) Most residential outlets are NEMA 5-15, (15A) and thus the maximum allowed is 12A continuous. (125% rule) To keep within the electrical code requirements the unit will not allow programming of over 12A when on 120V for this reason.

The specifications are correct with 16A, as it has the capability, but it is not possible to enable it on a limited 15A outlet. Sorry for the confusion.

-Phil
How does the evseupgrade know it is plugged into a 20 amp outlet?

If I take a 5-15 plug with #10 wire to a L6-30 adapter, how does the evseupgrade know whether I have plugged it into a 5-15 or a 5-20 outlet?

If I take a 5-20 plug (or perhaps a 30 amp plug) with #10 wire to a L6-30 adapter, how does the evseupgrade know I have done this, instead of using a lightweight 15 amp source?

Apparently ingineer won't tell you the secret to enable 16 amp unless you buy his 5-20 adapter, perhaps the one with a 5-15 skimps on the wire in the adapter (though that would seem unwise).

- - -
Realistically, though, given that 15 amp outlets can get over-warm when charging at 12 amps, I would not be sure I wanted to charge at 16 amps from a 20 amp outlet on a regular basis, at least not without careful checking. A 30 amp 240 volt source seems a better idea, and you get a serious bump up in charge rate from 12 amp 120.
 
alanlarson said:
A 30 amp 240 volt source seems a better idea, and you get a serious bump up in charge rate from 12 amp 120.
True, but I think the point of this post wasn't which is the better or best idea, but just to re-iterate in a more direct fashion (than having people search and read thru all of some old / long threads) that there is another option.

I appreciated that..

I'll still probably go 240v, but nice to know about the higher amperage 110v option.

As for the "serious bump up in charge rate", I have a 3.3kw charger. So it won't be THAT serious.
But I'll take what I can get.. ;-)

desiv
 
OpenEVSE can supply 16A on 120V. Please ensure your wiring and components are suitable.
 
desiv, with a 2012 you won't be able to draw more than 12 amps on 120v regardless of what the EVSE pilot says. So none of this applies to your car.
 
16A charging is not a standard or offered by auto makers on 120V because so many people already have sub-standard 15A outlets let alone 20A. This should only be done on heathy 20A outlets and many houses lack this and many 20A outlets out in the wild are often wired with 14G wire. 16A 120V charging should only be on dedicated circuits with excellent condition quality 20A dedicated outlets. Let's not get into the many people that don't check this or even know what that means.

Regardless the topic has been beaten to death and if you have a dedicated 120V 20A outlet then it is usually quite simple to convert it to a dedicated 20A 240V outlet by adding a breaker and using the existing wire making it all a moot point for hone use in most cases. In this case everything is new and checked over as well.
 
EVDRIVER said:
16A charging is not a standard or offered by auto makers on 120V because so many people already have sub-standard 15A outlets let alone 20A. This should only be done on heathy 20A outlets and many houses lack this and many 20A outlets out in the wild are often wired with 14G wire. 16A 120V charging should only be on dedicated circuits with excellent condition quality 20A dedicated outlets. ...
+10

beachfitrob is propagating the same incompetent stupidity of using 120V outlets without doing proper inspection and in many cases the needed replacements to make them safe to use.
Just because you find a 20 amp 120V outlet in your garage or in a public place does not mean it is safe to use.
To go around posting 120V outlet locations on
plugshare like beachfitrob is doing without knowing they are dedicated circuits and safe for use and authorized for use is out and out wreckless :!:
TimLee said:
Here is the important information again:
TimLee said:
A repeat of my input from previous questions on 120 V EVSE use:
Note that Nissan recommends the 120V EVSE for limited emergency use only.
Some people have used it for a long time without problems yet, but in general that is a bad idea unless you have a newly properly installed dedicated circuit with high grade receptacle using properly tightened screw connections.

Previous info from another thread:
mikelb said:
...
Trickle charging should be safe, though, right? I wouldn't necessarily need to have the circuit certified for it or anything, should I? If I were to go to a friend's house, would I be safe plugging into their outlet?
How safe 120V charging is depends on how lucky you are.
Very few garages have the correct properly installed high quality single outlet supplied by a single breaker.
Code only allows using 80% of the circuit rating for a long term continuous load.
So on a 15 amp circuit nothing else should be on the same circuit while the car is charging.
And a lot of 120V gets put in poorly using push in connections.
One person had a bad fire most likely from staples that had damaged the cable in the wall.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15784&hilit=+fire#p352567" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
TimLee said:
beachfitrob is propagating the same incompetent stupidity of using 120V outlets without doing proper inspection and in many cases the needed replacements to make them safe to use.
Just because you find a 20 amp 120V outlet in your garage or in a public place does not mean it is safe to use.

Really, where did he say anything about not doing inspections?
I didn't see that?

Or are you saying that not specifically saying you should inspect means someone is saying that you shouldn't??

The level of negativity at a user who is just offering some options seems counterproductive.

Wouldn't it have been just as easy to say something like:
"Just remember, all outlets should be inspected before use as the continuous high amp draw of an EVSE could potentially be dangerous."

Just a thought.

Have a good one..

desiv
 
JeremyW said:
desiv, with a 2012 you won't be able to draw more than 12 amps on 120v regardless of what the EVSE pilot says. So none of this applies to your car.
Interesting.
As I said, I'm going to go 240v, mostly because I don't like the unplugging and plugging all the time.
(And I'm still "hoping" my work will allow me to eventually use a 110v plug there, so I'd be using my original EVSE at work.)
But I didn't realize that an EVSE modded by EVSEUpgrade to draw 16A on a 110v circuit (properly installed and inspected for safety!!)wouldn't help on a 3.3kw 2012. I thought it would still be well under the 3.3kw (haven't done any of the math) that the 2012 charger has.

Good to know..

Thanx,

desiv
 
beachfitrob said:
I'll also post in the 'charging strategy' section.
Actually cross-posting in more than one sub-forum is frowned upon here. The threads will likely be merged by the admins.

P.S. I have to agree with the others. 16a 120v charging isn't useful unless you're sure the circuit is dedicated, and then you might as well just convert it to 240v. Using 20a 120v circuits in the "wild" at 16a borders on reckless. Using them at 12a is risky enough.
 
desiv said:
JeremyW said:
desiv, with a 2012 you won't be able to draw more than 12 amps on 120v regardless of what the EVSE pilot says. So none of this applies to your car.
Interesting.
As I said, I'm going to go 240v, mostly because I don't like the unplugging and plugging all the time.
(And I'm still "hoping" my work will allow me to eventually use a 110v plug there, so I'd be using my original EVSE at work.)
But I didn't realize that an EVSE modded by EVSEUpgrade to draw 16A on a 110v circuit (properly installed and inspected for safety!!)wouldn't help on a 3.3kw 2012. I thought it would still be well under the 3.3kw (haven't done any of the math) that the 2012 charger has.

Good to know..

Thanx,

desiv

first it's 120v not 110. Nowhere in North America* has actual 110v power. (see table of mains if you are curious where does have 110v)

second the math is 16a * 120v = 1920 watts (1.9KW)

third even though that is under the 3.3KW of the charger on a 2012 leaf just isn't setup to use more than 12a on 120V (2013 or newer would do it).

* For some definitions of North America

US and Canada use 120v
Mexico uses 127v

There are some countries that use 110v but they aren't the most common suspects

Cuba is 110v

many Caribbean countries are 110v

The term North America maintains various definitions in accordance with location and context. In English, North America may be used to refer to the United States and Canada together. Alternatively, usage sometimes includes Greenland and Mexico (as in the North American Free Trade Agreement), as well as offshore islands.

In Ibero-America and other parts of Europe, North America usually designates a subcontinent of the Americas containing Canada, the United States, and Mexico, and often Greenland, Saint Pierre et Miquelon, and Bermuda.

North America has been historically referred to by other names. Spanish North America (New Spain) was often referred to as Northern America, and this was the first official name given to Mexico.

so it just depends on whether you include Cuba and/or Caribbean islands as part of North America if you want to say there is or isn't 110v in North America.
 
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