12kW OpenEVSE vs 15 kW JuiceBox Base

Looking at the two cheapest high current level 2 charging station options. Comparing them spec'ed out to almost the same price just to give a good comparison.


Did I get all that right?

It's hard to say which one wins. OpenEVSE is a great value and a fun build and comes with an LCD standard and a really nice enclosure, but JuiceBox comes pre-assembled and offers a nice docking option. Both offer awesome value and to me are on the leading edge.

I'm leaning towards JuiceBox because of the docking option. I wonder how difficult it would be to fabricate something similar for the OpenEVSE enclosure.

I have a JuiceBox Basic fully optioned with all the features available in the "Premium". Your comparison does not include the cost of the input and output cables. With those the total cost would be about $200 more (including shipping).

I was capable of building an open source EVSE kit, but frankly I wanted a warranty to go with it, so to me getting a JB pre-assembled was really the only option. It not only came with a one year warranty but was fully pre-programmed and tested before delivery.

Another consideration was that the JB is manufactured in the SF Bay Area whereas the OpenSource EVSE is somewhere in Southern CA. I live in San Jose, so I wanted to be close enough to the company in case I needed any additional tech support. Which I did while customizing my JB's LCD display option.

Imho, "the display" on either of these competing EVSEs is absolutely essential, as is the key fob "remote" option on the JB. I saved a few bucks by getting the "Basic" enclosure version and having eMW upgrade it to include these options before shipment. All I needed to do was provide my own see-thru, plexiglass cover (~$10) for the rest of the enclosure. Here is a link to a closeup photo of the result of the customized displays in my Basic JB (still water resistant) enclosure.

http://s862.photobucket.com/user/dsinned99/media/JuiceBoxdisplays_zps9788d772.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

The JB Basic enclosure effortlessly slips in and out of its wall mount "holder", for portability purposes, so that option is well worth the extra $30.

kubel said:

I'm leaning towards JuiceBox because of the docking option. I wonder how difficult it would be to fabricate something similar for the OpenEVSE enclosure.

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What do you mean by a docking option? Do you mean a dock for your J1772 cable, like this one for $11?



http://www.ebay.com/itm/J1772-Holster-EVSE-Secure-Holder-Dock-for-your-EV-Charging-Station-Connector/111467223724?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D24351%26meid%3D326be5006e7d4124b52b09fb7f91c134%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D10335%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D171168650540&rt=nc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am probably biased but I think OpenEVSE is a much more elegant and flexible solution.

I think he is talking about the enclosure's "flange" (OpenSource EVSE) or "holder" (JB) for wall mounting purposes.

eHelmholtz said:

Do you mean a dock for your J1772 cable, like this one for $11?

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No, but that also is a nice thing to have. What I'm talking about is a dock for the actual enclosure, allowing you to keep it mounted on the wall semi-permanently, but unmount it quickly and take it with you:





It's very simple, but it adds a lot of value to the JuiceBox.

dsinned said:

Your comparison does not include the cost of the input and output cables. With those the total cost would be about $200 more (including shipping).

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I left those out since the pricing would be identical.

The OpenEVSE Combo is a much closer comparison to the JuiceBox Premium ($399). The OpenEVSE combo comes with a display, button and a Real time clock which enables Timer functions and changes to the configuration.

Some other notable differences.

OpenEVSE will keep its clock when it loses power and uses a ultra precise clock. The clock on the Juicebox premium must be reset each time there is a power failure.

OpenEVSE also had a digitally set pilot that is stored on internal flash, Set it to 24A and you get 24A, no need to mess with a trim pot and measurement equipment.

OpenEVSE is a fully integrated design and its tiny. The whole controller including microprocessor and power supply are all engineered as single unit. You can fit 6 OpenEVSE boards in the same footprint as the Juicebox and its power supply.

OpenEVSE has been around twice as long, the hardware, firmware and community is more mature. OpenEVSE documentation is also much more complete.

kubel said:

eHelmholtz said:

Do you mean a dock for your J1772 cable, like this one for $11?

Click to expand...

No, but that also is a nice thing to have. What I'm talking about is a dock for the actual enclosure, allowing you to keep it mounted on the wall semi-permanently, but unmount it quickly and take it with you.

Click to expand...

We just call our "docking station" a wall mount for JESLA. Maybe I need to get more hip with marketing names, eh?


http://shop.quickchargepower.com/UMC-Wall-Mount-UMCWM.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

chris1howell said:

The OpenEVSE Combo is a much closer comparison to the JuiceBox Premium ($399). The OpenEVSE combo comes with a display, button and a Real time clock which enables Timer functions and changes to the configuration.

Some other notable differences.

OpenEVSE will keep its clock when it loses power and uses a ultra precise clock. The clock on the Juicebox premium must be reset each time there is a power failure.

OpenEVSE also had a digitally set pilot that is stored on internal flash, Set it to 24A and you get 24A, no need to mess with a trim pot and measurement equipment.

OpenEVSE is a fully integrated design and its tiny. The whole controller including microprocessor and power supply are all engineered as single unit. You can fit 6 OpenEVSE boards in the same footprint as the Juicebox and its power supply.

OpenEVSE has been around twice as long, the hardware, firmware and community is more mature. OpenEVSE documentation is also much more complete.

Click to expand...

I agree except that the JB also can store its setting for the J1772 output current limiter in non-volatile memory. In the Premium (or upgraded Basic) version, it can also be "remotely" adjusted in 1A steps as needed. There are no pot(s) to mess with and nothing on the inside of the box needs to be accessed. This is the advantage of having a viewable "display" on the front of the enclosure and the convenience of a key fob "remote". The main advantage of the OpenEVSE is the RTC hardware function. The JB maintains a clock function in software, that does not keep 100% accurate time, and does need to be reset every time the AC power is re-energized. However, I believe eMW is about to release a firmware update for their existing WiFi option so the software clock function gets automatic updates from the Internet to keep it accurate and self-resetting. The really BIG NEWS will be when a new (future) cell phone app is to be released that takes advantage of the existing WiFi feature to provide more data and reporting capabilities.

dsinned said:

In the Premimum or uprgaded Basic) version, it can also be "remotely" adjusted in 1A steps as needed. There are no pot(s) to mess with and nothing on the inside of the box needs to be accessed. This is the advantage of having a viewable "display" on the front of the enclosure and the convenience of a key fob "remote". The main advantage of the OpenEVSE is the RTC hardware function. The JB maintains a clock function in software, that does not keep 100% accurate time, and does need to be reset every time the AC power is re-energized. However, I believe eMW is about to release a firmware update for their existing WiFi option so the software clock function gets automatic updates from the Internet to keep it accurate and self-resetting. The really BIG JB NEWS will be about a new cell phone app that takes advantage of the existing WiFi feature, to be released sometime in the near future.

Click to expand...

Exactly my point. Juicebox basic has no display or wifi so you cant set current digitaly. This thread compairs Juicebox basic with OpenEVSE combo which is much more feature rich than the Juicebox basic.

Comparison of OpenEVSE to JuiceBox Premimum is another topic.

You're quite right. I keep forgetting that I have a JuiceBox Basic with all the optional features of a Premium. Sorry.

nm

A 12K OpenEVSE vs a 15K Juicebox is pretty meaningless. There is two parts to the J1772 standard. The EVSE tells the car how much current is available and the car takes what it needs up to that max. If you had an EVSE at the 80A max and connected my old 2012 Leaf it would only take 16A.

Over building your EVSE means that you have to deal with big fat cables. ( Tony's 40A cable excepted). If you have ever looked at a 50A cable it looks like a garden hose.

There are trade offs to be sure, but some of us like the idea of "future proofing" our EVSEs. But, frankly, in the most practical terms, there is really no need to have an EVSE with more than a 250V, 40A (10kW) output rating. This is because in the vast majority of home charging situations, the wiring (and protection) infrastructure for a dedicated 240V outlet in excess of 50A is slim to none. In fact, this type of outlet, typically, a NEMA 14-50R (RV style) or 6-50R (for welding equipment), usually has to be "added" to the homeowner's garage, because one does not already exist; at least not in a convenient location for EV charging purposes. However, it is encouraging to see more and more new construction homes with at least a 240V/40A circuit pre-wired to the garage for future EV charging applications. Ideally, there should be a 100A service sub-panel with two 50A breakers for this purpose, so that a Tesla equipped with the "dual charger" option can be "fast" charged at 20kW.

dsinned said:

There are trade offs to be sure, but some of us like the idea of "future proofing" our EVSEs. But, frankly, in the most practical terms, there is really no need to have an EVSE with more than a 250V, 40A (10kW) output rating. This is because in the vast majority of home charging situations, the wiring (and protection) infrastructure for a dedicated 240V outlet in excess of 50A is slim to none. In fact, this type of outlet, typically, a NEMA 14-50R (RV style) or 6-50R (for welding equipment), usually has to "added" to the homeowner's garage, because one does not already exist; at least not in a convenient location for EV charging purposes. However, it is encouraging to see more and more new construction homes with at least a 240V/40A circuit pre-wired to the garage for future EV charging applications. Ideally, there should be a 100A service sub-panel with two 50A breakers for this purpose, so that a Tesla equipped with the "dual charger" option can be "fast" charged at 20kW.

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If ever I get a Tesla based car I will charge it at 32A instead of 40A since my townhouse only has 100A service. The nice thing about the J1772 standard is thar the car will limit its charging current.

chris1howell said:

dsinned said:

In the Premimum or uprgaded Basic) version, it can also be "remotely" adjusted in 1A steps as needed. There are no pot(s) to mess with and nothing on the inside of the box needs to be accessed. This is the advantage of having a viewable "display" on the front of the enclosure and the convenience of a key fob "remote". The main advantage of the OpenEVSE is the RTC hardware function. The JB maintains a clock function in software, that does not keep 100% accurate time, and does need to be reset every time the AC power is re-energized. However, I believe eMW is about to release a firmware update for their existing WiFi option so the software clock function gets automatic updates from the Internet to keep it accurate and self-resetting. The really BIG JB NEWS will be about a new cell phone app that takes advantage of the existing WiFi feature, to be released sometime in the near future.

Click to expand...

Exactly my point. Juicebox basic has no display or wifi so you cant set current digitaly. This thread compairs Juicebox basic with OpenEVSE combo which is much more feature rich than the Juicebox basic.

Comparison of OpenEVSE to JuiceBox Premium is another topic.

Click to expand...

nice thread.

but Chris, then we would have to compare JuiceBox KIT and not the fully assembled unit - with everything mounted to the enclosure and connected and ready to plug in. Base Kit is $179, Premium Kit is currently off the site due to ongoing redesign of the enclosure (to make it much easier to assemble). You can add current measurement, remote control, and color LCD screen to the Base Kit for a combined price of ~$60.

Therefore, a fair comparison would be JuiceBox Base kit + these options = $239 vs OpenEVSE Combo at $262. WiFi would add ~$50 to JuiceBox.

So the pricing is pretty close. JuiceBox has shipped 1,500 units at this point. It will be at 2,500 by the end of this year. Yes, it's been shipping for just ~a year. The first prototype was operational in April last year.

GlennD said:

If you had an EVSE at the 80A max and connected my old 2012 Leaf it would only take 16A.

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It only took Nissan 2 years to nearly double is charger speed. If the trend continues, I expect the next generation LEAF (and other EVs in the same class) will offer a faster-than-6kW charger option. The BMW i3 allegedly has a 7.4kW charger. Toyota RAV4-EV is 10kW. Tesla Model S can do up to 20kW, iirc.

I'm not expecting to charge any faster with my 2012. I'm expecting to charge other cars faster.

kubel said:

GlennD said:

If you had an EVSE at the 80A max and connected my old 2012 Leaf it would only take 16A.

Click to expand...

It only took Nissan 2 years to nearly double is charger speed. If the trend continues, I expect the next generation LEAF (and other EVs in the same class) will offer a faster-than-6kW charger option. The BMW i3 allegedly has a 7.4kW charger. Toyota RAV4-EV is 10kW. Tesla Model S can do up to 20kW, iirc.

I'm not expecting to charge any faster with my 2012. I'm expecting to charge other cars faster.

Click to expand...

As it stands the Leaf is at 27.5A, Other non Tesla powered cars like the fit are at 30A, The Tesla powered cars are at 40A.

Even if I required 40A, I would remain at 32A since my townhouse has 100A service.

I think there is a limit to the amount of current that can be spared for an EVSE. The house I shared before buying my current house only had 60A service.

GlennD said:

As it stands the Leaf is at 27.5A, Other non Tesla powered cars like the fit are at 30A, The Tesla powered cars are at 40A.

Even if I required 40A, I would remain at 32A since my townhouse has 100A service.

I think there is a limit to the amount of current that can be spared for an EVSE. The house I shared before buying my current house only had 60A service.

Click to expand...

I have a RAV4 EV with a 10kW onboard charger. As a self-imposed rule, I do not charge it over 32A for similar reasons, even though I have an EVSE (JuiceBox) rated for a maximum output of 60A. It is never a good idea to push ANY machine, mechanical or otherwise, to its maximum power rating. A similar philosophy applies to electric powered cars, batteries and charging equipment. At 32A my JB operates warm to the touch, but nothing compared to how much warmer it would get at 40+ amps!

So
What the verdict? openevse or Juce box?
for the $$ which is the better value?

Well, as was mentioned earlier I believe, it boils down to "personal preference". Surely there is enough commentary in this thread as to which presents a greater value if that is your only basis for comparison. But, even then, it's probably too close to call. So then, you have to look at the "feature set" and decide which ones of greater "benefit" in your situation. Frankly, I still root for the JuiceBOX, because I have one, and like it A LOT, so that makes me very biased! I know the company and people that designed and manufacturer the JuiceBox, and have personally visited their facility not far from where I live, so that makes me even more biased. The only other thing I can say in favor of EMW is they are working diligently toward UL APPROVAL of the JuiceBox (in preassembled form), which I do not believe the competition has the resources to do themselves in the "open" EVSE marketplace. Customer safety should be every EVSE manufacturer's #1 priority!