wiring in 240 Volt outlet for EVSE

On Sunday I sold my car of the past 12 years (a 2003 diesel Jetta wagon that I ran on biodiesel), and Monday I leased a "new" (never been sold) Cayenne Red 2013 Leaf S with the quick charge package, for $183 a month - woohoo! I *LOVE* this car.

Anyway - so far I'm charging it with the 120V EVSE that came with the car, but I want to put a 240V outlet and EVSE in. I don't want to go the EVSE Upgrade route, since I'm planning on only having EVs from here on out, so I'd like to get an EVSE that will last a long time. I'm planning on a plug-in version, partly for portability but also for simplicity, since in principle a hardwired one would need a cut-off switch mounted next to it per code, and it's just easier to instead wire in an outlet. Probably cheaper overall too.

This morning I bought a 6-50R receptacle and box, 35 feet of 6/2 cable, two feedthrough bushings (to keep the cable from chafing), wire nuts, and a 50 amp 240V breaker. I think that's all I need. I've done a fair amount of wiring on my house before, but all 120V stuff. Anything I'm forgetting?

I'm still looking over different EVSEs, but so far I'm liking the looks of the Clipper Creek HCS-40P and Siemens Versicharge VC30 (http://www.amazon.com/Siemens-VC30BLKB-VersiCharge-Electric-Vehicle/dp/B0083ZZFEA/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1407787141&sr=1-1&keywords=Siemens+VC30BLKB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ). Of course, a 40 amp one would be nicer (instead of a 30 amp one)....

Are there any other comparable options I'm missing? The DIY ones are interesting, but with two little kids, finding time to assemble the EVSE in addition to wiring in the outlet would be more challenging....

Thanks!
Mike

JuiceBox
OpenEVSE

Those both have assembled kits for a bit more $.

A 14-50 outlet would be more versatile than a 6-50, but is only a difference of an adapter in most cases for the EVSE. (They don't need the neutral line for 120V)

mctom987 said:

JuiceBox
OpenEVSE

Those both have assembled kits for a bit more $.

A 14-50 outlet would be more versatile than a 6-50, but is only a difference of an adapter in most cases for the EVSE. (They don't need the neutral line for 120V)

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If I were still a single guy, I would definitely go for a DIY option. But, with two little kids in the house, I'm a bit more hesitant. I'm pretty decent with electronics, but without testing for UL listing, I'm wary of potential problems. So - I'd prefer to go with a UL listed one. At least for up to 30 Amps, there isn't that much of a price difference between the options available and JuiceBox or Open EVSE. The UL Listed ones are generally around $600, whereas the JuiceBox is already pushing $500 for the Premium kit once you add the cable (or $400 for the Basic with the cable). To me that's not enough of a savings to make it worthwhile. The scientist in me would love to tinker and spend the time building my own (I'm a physicist) - but the dad in me is reluctant.

Hm, it seems like there is only one company that makes a 40 amp actual output EVSE (requiring 50 amp circuit, and making the most of it). Lots of 30 amp ones, but this is the only 40 amp one I can find:

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-EVB40-P5T-Charging-Station-Installation/dp/B00DG147DQ/?tag=myelecarmecf-20&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think a little competition in the marketplace is needed to pull the price of that one down....

You do not need a 40A EVSE! A 30A EVSE is fine.

The way it works is that the EVSE tells the car what is available and the car takes what it needs up to that max. A Leaf with the upgraded charger will take only 27.5A even if the J1772 max of 80A was offered. On the other hand if you had a 24A EVSE the car would only take the 24A offered even though it could charge at 27.5A. The car must follow a lower current offering.

You already bought the wire, so I think your 6-50 is a good idea especially if you plan to get a welder someday. But the 14-50 might have been a better choice. If you ever have a friend with a big Winnebago come visit, they could plug in, and if you ever had a big cookout and needed an extra stove you could have plugged in. Doesn't the tesla also use the 14-50? Going big is a good idea. Someday when electric cars get bigger batteries and charge faster, you will be glad you have the extra capacity!

Yes, Glenn, but he must plan for the future. He said he was going all EV in the future, and who knows what the future will bring? You never know, he may buy a RAV4 and need the 40A capability. Since he is installing a 6-50 receptacle (I would go with a 14-50, but the Leviton comes with a 6-50 plug), he should go all the way with a 40A EVSE.

MichaelBornstein said:

Yes, Glenn, but he must plan for the future. He said he was going all EV in the future, and who knows what the future will bring? You never know, he may buy a RAV4 and need the 40A capability. Since he is installing a 6-50 receptacle (I would go with a 14-50, but the Leviton comes with a 6-50 plug), he should go all the way with a 40A EVSE.

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The beauty of the J1772 protocol is that a 30A EVSE will work fine with a 40A RAV4 EV. It will just charge it 25% slower. For overnight charging this is a non issue. Given equal costs a 40A EVSE would be a good choice but currently it costs quite a bit more.

Pchilds has charged his RAV4 EV on my 30A EVSE. Given my 100A service when my lease expires I will be charging my Tesla 3 or Mercedes B at 30A.

JESLA is portable and 40 amps.

another advantage of the 14-50 over the 6-50 that I just noticed today... try finding a 6-50 pigtail down at Lowe's. 14-50s are everywhere.

GlennD said:

You do not need a 40A EVSE! A 30A EVSE is fine.

The way it works is that the EVSE tells the car what is available and the car takes what it needs up to that max. A Leaf with the upgraded charger will take only 27.5A even if the J1772 max of 80A was offered. On the other hand if you had a 24A EVSE the car would only take the 24A offered even though it could charge at 27.5A. The car must follow a lower current offering.

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A 30 amp EVSE is fine for the Leaf - and most likely what I'll end up installing - I was just looking at options for "future proofing" a little. But there is a significant price jump from the 30 amp units to the one 40 amp unit. As battery technology improves, leading to larger capacity batteries with list internal resistance (less heat when charging), I expect EVs to start coming with more powerful onboard chargers.

johnrhansen said:

You already bought the wire, so I think your 6-50 is a good idea especially if you plan to get a welder someday. But the 14-50 might have been a better choice. If you ever have a friend with a big Winnebago come visit, they could plug in, and if you ever had a big cookout and needed an extra stove you could have plugged in.

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Ah, simple solution to that - I'll never make friends with anyone who has a Winnebago.

I figured I'm more likely to have a friend with a welder in their garage (for me to charge up at) than I am to have a friend bring an RV to my house.

Doesn't the tesla also use the 14-50? Going big is a good idea. Someday when electric cars get bigger batteries and charge faster, you will be glad you have the extra capacity!

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Exactly!

6-50 is fine. Just make/buy a 6-50 to 14-50 adapter when actually needed.

I just bought a 14-50 box (all-in-one outlet) from OSH for $11.
Going to be rewiring my 6-30, and forgoing the neutral. I'm pretty much set on buying a JuiceBox. My Leaf won't need >30A, so I've no immediate intention of replacing the #10 wire. I'll just configure the JB for 24A max, and all is swell.

Maybe my 2020 Leaf will have a 10kW OBC or so, then I'll just replace the wiring, breaker, and I'll have full-rate charging for only like $200 more (mostly the wire)

50a outlet needs #8 wire and 40a breaker to meet code.

smkettner said:

50a outlet needs #8 wire and 40a breaker to meet code.

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50A breaker, actually.
And what's your point? JuiceBox isn't UL listed, so that's not up to code either.

Edit: I also believe outlets can be underrated (30A breaker) but just not overrated (60A breaker). Not sure on that though, I'm not an electrician.

msbriggs said:

A 30 amp EVSE is fine for the Leaf - and most likely what I'll end up installing - I was just looking at options for "future proofing" a little. But there is a significant price jump from the 30 amp units to the one 40 amp unit. As battery technology improves, leading to larger capacity batteries with list internal resistance (less heat when charging), I expect EVs to start coming with more powerful onboard chargers.

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I'm wondering how that will play out. The other "future factor" is -- what will things be like when most households on your street have one or more EV? Is the infrastructure ready for everyone to start pulling 10kW, 20kW, 40kW, in addition to existing loads? Is it "sky's the limit", or might some type of code evolve for home EV charging, specifying maximum amperage?

These are the kind of things I think about, to make me feel better about my 16A EVSE

I think he's right. 40 amp breaker minimum, 50 amp maximum. They worry about you popping your breaker if you ever plugged a welder in there on a 30 amp circuit. The code is meant to be safe in all conditions, so to make it that way they need to disallow some things that could be done safely with other restrictions.

I see that you're reluctant to go with a "kit" EVSE like openEVSE or Juicebox, but the advantage they give is more than just their low cost. They're also way better than any "off the shelf" options in terms of portability and adjustability. Adjustability is a big plus if you ever want to take your EVSE with you to charge on the road. Your 30a EVSE is no good if you're at a friend's house or vacation rental with a 30a dryer outlet you could plug in to (you'd need to derate to 24a) or if you bring a quick220-style device to get 240v from two 120v outlets (derate to 12a or 16a).

Also, if you're comfortable doing the wiring for your circuit, you should have no problem whatsoever putting together your own EVSE, and you can get either type pre-assembled if you prefer anyway. Plus, UL listing is worthless as a guarantee of actual safety, although it may help with insurance in the exceedingly rare event of a fire attributable to the EVSE. Note that many of the commercial offerings aren't UL listed either, while the most dangerous one seen yet (Blink) was. If a fire does occur, it's much more likely to occur in the in-home wiring. If you're comfortable enough to do that yourself instead of going with a pro, why not put your EVSE together too? In all likelihood it'll actually be safer, since you'll know how it operates and can carefully inspect your own workmanship, rather than getting a "black box" that you never open.

smkettner said:

50a outlet needs #8 wire and 40a breaker to meet code.

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For a receptacle on a dedicated circuit, the only NEC requirement is that the receptacle rating is no less than the circuit rating. So if you wanted to, you could put your 50a receptacle on #14 copper wire on a 15a breaker, although that would be very odd.

However, to the OP, I caution against installing a 4 wire receptacle (14-50) with only 3 wires connected and omitting the neutral. I haven't checked the NEC, but it sounds like a future problem. At the very least if you do this, label the receptacle "240V only, no neutral".

Cheers, Wayne