"Electric vehicles only" and the Prius

Seeing more and more of this:


Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the Plug in Prius as "an electric vehicle." When I search for "legal definition of electric vehicle" I get two main results, including:

(1) “a vehicle which is powered by an electric motor drawing current from rechargeable storage batteries, fuel cells, or other portable sources of electrical current, and which may include a nonelectrical source of power designed to charge batteries and components thereof.”

...of which I would argue a Prius does not use its gas engine to charge batteries (like a Volt), rather it drives the car, and

(2) " “a vehicle that is powered by an electric motor drawing current from rechargeable storage batteries or other portable electrical energy storage devices, provided that:
(a) Recharge energy must be drawn from a source off the vehicle, such as residential electric service; and
(b) The vehicle must comply with all provisions of the Zero Emission Vehicle definition found in 40 CFR 88.104-94(g).”

and the latter of which says:
(g) A light-duty vehicle or light-duty truck shall be certified as a ZEV if it is determined by engineering analysis that the vehicle satisfies the following conditions:
(a) The vehicle fuel system(s) must not contain either carbon or nitrogen compounds (including air) which, when burned, form any of the pollutants listed in Table A104-1 as exhaust emissions.
(b) All primary and auxiliary equipment and engines must have no emissions of any of the pollutants listed in Table A104-1.
(c) The vehicle fuel system(s) and any auxiliary engine(s) must have no evaporative emissions in use.
(d) Any auxiliary heater must not operate at ambient temperatures above 40 degrees Fahrenheit."

In the referred-to table are NMOG, CO, NOX, HCHO, and PM1, all of which the Prius emits (and so does the Volt).

In my mind, 11 miles of range MAX at 62 miles per hour MAX is not an electric vehicle and it doesn't seem to meet the legal requirements to be labeled as one. But I'm not good at legalese either. So...what am I missing?

As long as he is actively charging I have no problem with using the space.

Same for the Volt "EV" next to it.

PEHVs with pitiful EV range shouldn't be allowed in the first place, IMHO. But I see nothing wrong there, other than the guy buying the wrong car.

+1 The PiP is just another example of a pitiful compliance-type car from Toyota IMHO... I am strongly for no HOV stickers to any car that has less than a 35 mile EPA all-electric range!

mwalsh said:

PEHVs with pitiful EV range shouldn't be allowed in the first place, IMHO. But I see nothing wrong there, other than the guy buying the wrong car.

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The problem here is free parking/charging. If you want public charging to be available, you need to charge for the space and the power, otherwise spaces will fill up no matter how many you build. People can't pass up free. And paying by the hour to connect will incentivize people to buy, and manufacturers to provide, faster on-board chargers which increase the utility of existing public charging.

At least he shouldn't be there long. I agree though it is kind of lame.

mwalsh said:

PEHVs with pitiful EV range shouldn't be allowed in the first place, IMHO. But I see nothing wrong there, other than the guy buying the wrong car.

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He gets a CVRP check, priority parking, and HOV access. Likely exactly what he wanted

KeiJidosha said:

The problem here is free parking/charging. If you want public charging to be available, you need to charge for the space and the power, otherwise spaces will fill up no matter how many you build. People can't pass up free. And paying by the hour to connect will incentivize people to buy, and manufacturers to provide, faster on-board chargers which increase the utility of existing public charging.

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I agree, assuming of course the price is reasonable. I like the idea of charging by the kwh. Charging a flat rate gives people no incentive to move their car as soon as practical.

The pip is an ICE vehicle that can go a very limited distance at a limited speed on electricity and does not seem to meet the legal criteria for using an "electric vehicle" parking space.


By the way, I stole the above pic off the internet...I did not take it.

We see PiP at public charging docks from time to time. As long as they leave when they're finished charging, I think it's great that they're trying to drive as many electric miles as possible. For some use patterns, the PiP is superior to the Volt, as it seats five and gets better gas mileage on long trips.

abasile said:

PiP is superior to the Volt, as it seats five and gets better gas mileage on long trips.

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Ah, just wait until the 2016 Volt. I can't speak for better gas mileage, but it will definitely seat 5.

Based on what I have read to date, it might make my short list...

mwalsh said:

Ah, just wait until the 2016 Volt. I can't speak for better gas mileage, but it will definitely seat 5.

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TomT said:

+1 The PiP is just another example of a pitiful compliance-type car from Toyota IMHO... I am strongly for no HOV stickers to any car that has less than a 35 mile EPA all-electric range!

mwalsh said:

PEHVs with pitiful EV range shouldn't be allowed in the first place, IMHO. But I see nothing wrong there, other than the guy buying the wrong car.

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The PIP isn't marketed as an EV, and I wouldn't call a mid-sized car that regularly gets over 60MPG in normal driving (with A/C on) "pitiful." We live 1/2 mile from a one square mile city, and my housemate's PIP can run all errands in mild weather as an EV. I agree that Toyota hates EVs, but their engineers sneaked a Gem past them with the Prius PHEV.

abasile said:

We see PiP at public charging docks from time to time. As long as they leave when they're finished charging, I think it's great that they're trying to drive as many electric miles as possible. For some use patterns, the PiP is superior to the Volt, as it seats five and gets better gas mileage on long trips.

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Exactly.

Actually a PiP would be perfect for me if I just had 1 vehicle. I drive less than 12miles generally before recharging but do so many times a day. The times I need to go out of Leaf range, I go waaaaaay out of Leaf range and take my Prius anyways. No way I would own a GM vehicle or any gasser that only got 30's mpg that is touted as an economic vehicle.

The more the better. Yay for PiP's!

2k1Toaster said:

No way I would own a GM vehicle or any gasser that only got 30's mpg that is touted as an economic vehicle.

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Last time I "Took the Volt"™ I got 44 miles EV and then a minimum of 40MPG at full highway speeds thereafter. I was pretty happy with that.

If they ever do a Volt that is around 70 miles EV and then 40MPG thereafter (not that I'm saying they will), that might just be enough to lure me away from a BEV for a while.

2k1Toaster said:

The more the better. Yay for PiP's!

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My local chargepoint (single L2) has a PiP that sits plugged in from sometime before 7:30am until 5:30 every single day. It's partly the owner's lack of charging etiquette, partly the city to blame for not putting a limit on parking, and partly that there is no fee for charging. I do not share the same enthusiasm as you do for PiPs.

asimba2 said:

2k1Toaster said:

The more the better. Yay for PiP's!

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My local chargepoint (single L2) has a PiP that sits plugged in from sometime before 7:30am until 5:30 every single day. It's partly the owner's lack of charging etiquette, partly the city to blame for not putting a limit on parking, and partly that there is no fee for charging. I do not share the same enthusiasm as you do for PiPs.

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A VW rear ended my Leaf but I don't now hate all VW's because of it. I did dislike them before though

Leave a note on the car asking if they could move after charging or something. Not enforceable I suppose, but you're not paying for it either.

As long as the car has a charging port and is actively charging, I have no problem with it using an "electric vehicle" station.

2k1Toaster said:

Leave a note on the car asking if they could move after charging or something. Not enforceable I suppose, but you're not paying for it either.

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I have left a note. I don't even need the charge, it just annoys me nonetheless. But so does someone driving a plug in Prius at 61 MPH in the carpool lane...

But back to the main topic, it appears to me that the PiP can not legally park in an "electric vehicle parking" spot, but I doubt any enforcement will occur.

asimba2 said:

2k1Toaster said:

Leave a note on the car asking if they could move after charging or something. Not enforceable I suppose, but you're not paying for it either.

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I have left a note. I don't even need the charge, it just annoys me nonetheless. But so does someone driving a plug in Prius at 61 MPH in the carpool lane...

But back to the main topic, it appears to me that the PiP can not legally park in an "electric vehicle parking" spot, but I doubt any enforcement will occur.

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Idiots are in all cars. There is a guy on the Prius forums who got ticketed for 40mph on a California freeway and was angry that it happened and didn't understand why. The posted speed limit was 65mph, traffic flowing well above that, and he was putzing along at 40mph. Likewise I take my Prius for the long range trips and triple digit speeds in the left lane driving packs are very common. Another, but different, form of stupid driving.

While in your case, disliking that driver of that car is reasonable. Disliking an entire brand because of one person, seems unreasonable. But you are free to hate whom you wish.

2k1Toaster said:

While in your case, disliking that driver of that car is reasonable. Disliking an entire brand because of one person, seems unreasonable. But you are free to hate whom you wish.

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I do not dislike the car, it's better than a pure ICE. I'm just posing the question, "is a PiP an electric vehicle." I think no.