compatible GFCI outlets w/'13+ Leaf?

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cwerdna

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
13,674
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
First off, I almost never charge at home. I have free L2 charging at work and sometimes use free public charging.

When I charge at home (possibly Fridays and weekends), it's using the only outlet that I noticed in my garage, a GFCI one. It charges fine and doesn't trip. The outlet gets a little warm but not hot. But, it looks like it uses stab connections, which folks here say is a bad idea (I can see why). I don't see any screw terminals. The wires go straight into holes on the back of it yet I don't see any extra holes for releases like I have on other non-GFCI outlets and switches.

I thought of replacing the GFCI outlet w/a non-GFCI but realized I'm not sure how to connect it. The GFCI has 5 wires going into it, whereas regular non-GFCIs normally accept 3 wires.

Ingineer at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=87367#p87367" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; mentioned one from Leviton that's supposedly compatible w/EVs, but the link's bad now. I'm guessing it referred to http://store.leviton.com/GFCI-Outlet-Electric-Vehicle/b/2673929011" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I didn't see anything like this at Home Depot when I looked around. When I got home, I confirmed that http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Evr-Green-Base-Level-1-GFCI-Guide-Light-Receptacle-for-Electric-Vehicles-C27-T7591-PEV/202919213?keyword=gfci+leviton+electric+vehicle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; says they only carry it online. It's kinda pricey for a GFCI too.

Any others that are known compatible? I'd rather not play GFCI lottery by buying one, installing it and finding out my Leaf trips it... That's a big waste of time. I'm just trying to move to an outlet w/screw terminals. I personally don't care if it's GFCI or not.

edit: changed 4 to 5. Whoops!
 
If that GFCI is tripped, are there any other outlets that stop working as well? I've got a feeling that the presence of 4 wires means that perhaps this outlet is daisy-chained (though there should be a 5th wire of bare copper for ground).
 
cwerdna said:
The outlet gets a little warm but not hot. But, it looks like it uses stab connections, which folks here say is a bad idea (I can see why). I don't see any screw terminals. The wires go straight into holes on the back of it yet I don't see any extra holes for releases like I have on other non-GFCI outlets and switches.
Are there really no screw terminals on the side? I've never seen a receptacle like that, perhaps you can post a picture. When you mentioned the back wiring with no release slots, my initial reaction was that it uses compression plates tightened via the screws on the side to clamp the wire. This is my favorite wiring method and quite sturdy. If that is what you have, there is no need to replace the receptacle because of the wiring method.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
cwerdna said:
The outlet gets a little warm but not hot. But, it looks like it uses stab connections, which folks here say is a bad idea (I can see why). I don't see any screw terminals. The wires go straight into holes on the back of it yet I don't see any extra holes for releases like I have on other non-GFCI outlets and switches.
Are there really no screw terminals on the side? I've never seen a receptacle like that, perhaps you can post a picture. When you mentioned the back wiring with no release slots, my initial reaction was that it uses compression plates tightened via the screws on the side to clamp the wire. This is my favorite wiring method and quite sturdy. If that is what you have, there is no need to replace the receptacle because of the wiring method.

Cheers, Wayne

Seriously this is the best design as it's much easier for a DIYer to install saving time and frustration and still makes a good tight screwed connection.

While the Levinton EVSE GFCI might be three times as much as their other high quality GFCIs it's probably worth just getting it. In my experience it's pretty hard to find a GFCI that is too sensitive for our cars. I've yet to find one that trips the Panasonic EVSE and my 2011 LEAF so you just pick up whatever high quality ones they have in the store.

As others said you likely are protecting other receptacles with that GFCI and it likely has screws that maybe are under a cover on the side?
 
RonDawg said:
If that GFCI is tripped, are there any other outlets that stop working as well? I've got a feeling that the presence of 4 wires means that perhaps this outlet is daisy-chained (though there should be a 5th wire of bare copper for ground).
It's unknown to me as to whether anything else downstream is protected by this and where it is.

And whoops, you're right there are 5 wires! :oops: But, the ground is a green wire, not bare copper.

Here are pictures I took for myself before I even posted. I will take some more this weekend. FWIW, the house I live in was built in 1979 and my parents are the original owners. AFAIK, we've never had any electrical work done other than a garage door opener installer (or his electrician?) adding an outlet to the ceiling for the opener.

I'm 95% sure the GFCI outlet in question is the original one that came w/the house.

Perhaps the wires are held in place via some method (hopefully screw terminal) inside the outlet? Notice the outlet itself has screws on the back, but the corner screw is painted. Not sure if that was there from the factory or if the original electrician put that on...
 

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cwerdna said:
Here are pictures I took for myself before I even posted. I will take some more this weekend. FWIW, the house I live in was built in 1979
That device looks like it came with pigtails preattached, so the connections inside are from the factory. But as it is 35 years old, I suggest replacing it.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Just to let you know, the two lines coming out where it says "load" are protecting everything on the circuit downstream of that outlet. The two wires labeled "line" are bringing the power in. I would tend to leave well enough alone. None of the wires look cooked, and you say it works. Hit the test button on the front, and then the reset. If it goes off and then comes back on its ok.
 
cwerdna says that the outlet gets a little warm when in use. If it's just a little warm, that is not unusual and not a bad sign. It just depends on what you mean by "a little warm".

When I first got my 2013 Leaf, I plugged the trickle charge EVSE it into an outlet in my garage that is mounted in a separate metal box. The box got quite warm in use. So I got a non-contact thermometer and measured points all around. I found out that the outlet itself was heating up 35F hotter than the air in the garage and warming the box.

So I went to the store and bought a new, high-quality outlet - not the cheapest thing on the market. I installed it with screw terminals, very carefully tightening each wire.

The new outlet also heats up, but only 6F above air temperature. That's much better than before and seems reasonable considering that there is 12 amps of current flowing through pieces of metal in the outlet and through multiple connections.

But I still wasn't satisfied, so I contacted the outlet manufacturer and spoke with their application engineer. The engineer told me that the 35F heating that I saw previously would be considered a worn-out or defective outlet, but 6F of heating is well within the expected, normal operating range.

Bob
 
The part that bothers me is that those GFCI's are large devices, and are packed into the boxes. That one has tails, so if you replace it with one with side terminals you will have to pull the wires forward that are nutted together in the back of the box, remove the device, add tails to the existing wires, and bring those forward to the new device. Keeping all of that neat in an older box is a challenge, even for an experienced electrician.
 
DanDietrich said:
Just to let you know, the two lines coming out where it says "load" are protecting everything on the circuit downstream of that outlet. The two wires labeled "line" are bringing the power in. I would tend to leave well enough alone. None of the wires look cooked, and you say it works. Hit the test button on the front, and then the reset. If it goes off and then comes back on its ok.

I think it's still probably a good idea to discover what else is downstream of the GFCI, to make sure there aren't potentially any other heavy loads being placed on that circuit.
 
DanDietrich said:
The part that bothers me is that those GFCI's are large devices, and are packed into the boxes. That one has tails, so if you replace it with one with side terminals you will have to pull the wires forward that are nutted together in the back of the box, remove the device, add tails to the existing wires, and bring those forward to the new device. Keeping all of that neat in an older box is a challenge, even for an experienced electrician.

I haven't used one yet but I noticed these exist now: http://m.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-SmartlockPro-15-Amp-Slim-Tamper-Resistant-GFCI-Duplex-Outlet-White-R02-X7599-0KW/202514665/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've definitely had issues fitting a GFCI in an old box smaller box so hopefully these help with that problem.
 
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