Quick Charged my leaf from another leaf

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vsaphill

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
54
Location
Encino CA to Chino CA 120 miles Daily
We charged Leaf to Leaf @ 110amps, it will charge from a 2013 or 2014 Leaf to any CHAdeMO equipped car.
ORCA Inceptive is a “DC Level 3 Charger” for CHAdeMO equipped Electrical Vehicles, that delivers up to 50 kWatts output power.

At maximum performance the ORCA Inceptive recharges the battery of a Stranded EV in 5 minutes delivering 5 kWh energy (equivalent to 20 miles range). In addition to the Rescue EV battery, ORCA Inceptive may be powered from: 208V, 400V, 480V, AC, DC, gas or diesel generators, or the electric grid.


 
not sure this would be a popular home option. more like emergency roadside assistance or very large fleet operations. guessing the price tag would be more than I would pay...a lot more
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
not sure this would be a popular home option. more like emergency roadside assistance or very large fleet operations. guessing the price tag would be more than I would pay...a lot more
And not just cost issue.
Residential supply is usually at most a 200 amp, 240V service. 18kW is 75 amps. And NEC requires the continuous load to be loaded no more than 80%.
So the breaker will need to be 100 amp, pretty unusual on 200 amp service.
And the utility may have issues with it too. And if they charge more based on your peak demand that may be another cost problem unless you get special time of day rate, separate meter, etc.
 
TimLee said:
And not just cost issue.
Residential supply is usually at most a 200 amp, 240V service. 18kW is 75 amps. And NEC requires the continuous load to be loaded no more than 80%.
So the breaker will need to be 100 amp, pretty unusual on 200 amp service.
And the utility may have issues with it too. And if they charge more based on your peak demand that may be another cost problem unless you get special time of day rate, separate meter, etc.
Why would a quick charger be a continuous load for residential use? At 100 amps 24 kW, only a Tesla Model S with a 85 kWh pack would be a continuous load, charging from 0% to 100%. The NEC definition of continuous load is 100% for more than three hours. All other currently available production EVs including the Tesla Model S 60 kWh would not be a continuous load for quick charging at 24 kW, charging from 0% to 100%.
 
pchilds said:
TimLee said:
And not just cost issue.
Residential supply is usually at most a 200 amp, 240V service. 18kW is 75 amps. And NEC requires the continuous load to be loaded no more than 80%.
So the breaker will need to be 100 amp, pretty unusual on 200 amp service.
And the utility may have issues with it too. And if they charge more based on your peak demand that may be another cost problem unless you get special time of day rate, separate meter, etc.
Why would a quick charger be a continuous load for residential use? At 100 amps 24 kW, only a Tesla Model S with a 85 kWh pack would be a continuous load, charging from 0% to 100%. The NEC definition of continuous load is 100% for more than three hours. All other currently available production EVs including the Tesla Model S 60 kWh would not be a continuous load for quick charging at 24 kW, charging from 0% to 100%.
Charger does not know the capacity of the vehicle is the reason.
If the charger self limited after a couple hours to a lower value then I think you could ignore the 80% rule.
100a breaker does not seem like a big deal anyway. Still may need to self limit power.
 
pchilds: You wrote "Why would a quick charger be a continuous load for residential use?".

From the 2014 NEC Article 625.40 (Overcurrent Protection): Overcurrent protection for feeders and branch circuits supplying electric vehicle supply equipment shall be sized for continuous duty and shall have a rating of not less than 125 percent of the maximum load of the electric vehicle supply equipment.

As to why this is the case, perhaps they want a rule that easy to remember, i.e. ALWAYS 125% so that there is less likely to be confusion. Also, in the future there may be a vehicle connected to that EVSE with a much larger battery pack that DOES take over 3 hours -- the NEC is taking that possibility into consideration, as it should.
 
ORCA Inceptive list price is $25,990.

Soon we are going to make a low cost model "ORCA Portable" that will work up to 20 kW and it will be also smaller and lighter. Expected list price is $5,900, but it is not available yet.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ghyp0v6c6dltngu/ORCA-Inceptive_-_Datasheet%20%281%29.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
vsaphill said:
Soon we are going to make a low cost model "ORCA Portable" that will work up to 20 kW and it will be also smaller and lighter. Expected list price is $5,900, but it is not available yet.
I think I will save my money for a replacement traction battery (assuming Nissan starts selling them eventually).
 
MikeD said:
pchilds: You wrote "Why would a quick charger be a continuous load for residential use?".

From the 2014 NEC Article 625.40 (Overcurrent Protection): Overcurrent protection for feeders and branch circuits supplying electric vehicle supply equipment shall be sized for continuous duty and shall have a rating of not less than 125 percent of the maximum load of the electric vehicle supply equipment.

As to why this is the case, perhaps they want a rule that easy to remember, i.e. ALWAYS 125% so that there is less likely to be confusion. Also, in the future there may be a vehicle connected to that EVSE with a much larger battery pack that DOES take over 3 hours -- the NEC is taking that possibility into consideration, as it should.
We are not talking adout EVSEs, we are talking about DC chargers. This rule is not relevant. :D
 
pchilds: I will agree that the NEC is having a tough time keeping up with EV technology innovations these days (a new NEC is released only every 3 years), but I think my basic reasoning is relevant. If not, please let me know... :)
 
Very nice! How are you convincing the source battery to close contactors? Is the vehicle in drive mode? Or is this a bidirectional Chademo instruction (only 2013/14?) If so, what's the byte instruction on the 108/109 CAN message from the "charger" to close the contactor but not command charge current?
 
vsaphill said:
ORCA Inceptive list price is $25,990.

Soon we are going to make a low cost model "ORCA Portable" that will work up to 20 kW and it will be also smaller and lighter. Expected list price is $5,900, but it is not available yet.
Is the "ORCA Portable" only for car-to-car, or will that also work off grid power? If you guys come out with a 20 kW CHAdeMO station for only $5,900, that will be a true game changer. That is about the same as what ChargePoint charges for a CT4000! I still dream of seeing 2-3 CHAdeMO stations per location instead of just one. 50 kW max across all 2-3, whomever plugs in first gets priority with a minimum of 6 kW output. Doesn't seem like many people are interested in installing more than one QC / location aside from Tesla, though.
 
Stoaty said:
Sounds intriguing, but at 180 pounds and without a price hard to know where it would fit in.
If the price were right - rather than encure the charging loss of charging another leaf, why not just simply use it to get your car down the road a whole lot further. That's what I'd be thinking about. I remember that Phil said that such an application wouldn't be cost effective - so I'm wondering what if anything has changed.
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